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Concerns about the DCC Standard & Ease of Entry into the Hobby

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 6:58 AM

Where is the "like" button for Paul Cutlers excellent followup post?   Yes

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 7:19 AM

Brammy
As someone whose first post was a DCC post (it must be a union rule for newbies), it's clear DCC is the way to design things.

Yes,its found on page 34 under first post rules paragraph 1A of the Company and Union agreement book..

Larry

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Posted by Brammy on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:12 AM

BRAKIE
Yes,its found on page 34 under first post rules paragraph 1A of the Company and Union agreement book..

Found it. Right under "Which is better: HO or N scale?"

 

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:26 AM

Another one for the debateable topic list...

Tom

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 12:27 PM

I have noticed lately that there have been a few posts from different user names with a low post count (new to the forum) where the post tends to be a subtle indirect way of supporting smartphone/deadrail control of trains. 

Not concluding anything.  Its just an observation. 

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 12:53 PM

Doughless

I have noticed lately that there have been a few posts from different user names with a low post count (new to the forum) where the post tends to be a subtle indirect way of supporting smartphone/deadrail control of trains. 

Not concluding anything.  Its just an observation. 

 

Interesting. So, a Dead Rail enthusiasts' strategy to flood the forum with anti-DCC threads? I like your thinking.  Laugh

Rich

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Posted by carl425 on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:05 PM

Y'all may have missed the response by the OP yesterday.  It appears that since being approved by the moderator, it was inserted into the thread when it was written rather than being tacked on to the end.

It looks kinda funny to have all the complaints about him not coming back after he came back.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:47 PM

NKato - I owe you an apology for not taking your post serious enough. We had a couple of heated discussions about the future of DCC vs. bluetooth & dead rail and the like, it was my mistake to sort your post into that category.

A lot of that confusion could have been avoided if you had addressed your issues in a different manner, though.

Your layout seems to be pretty complicated and wiring it for DCC multi-engine operation is a heck of an effort, which does not come for free, either. Wiring it for DCC could be as simple as having two bus wires to which you join, either by soldering or by using suitcase connectors, a number of feeder wires.

Good entry level DCC command station don´t cost much more than a decent powerpack - look for a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra or an NCE Powercab. The really cheap Bachmann E-Z Command will certainly not make you happy. In my country, I can buy a brandnew Roco Multimaus Set for less than $100.  Lenz has also a nice DCC starter set, but I am not sure whether it´s being sold in the US.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:49 PM

carl425

Y'all may have missed the response by the OP yesterday.  It appears that since being approved by the moderator, it was inserted into the thread when it was written rather than being tacked on to the end.

It looks kinda funny to have all the complaints about him not coming back after he came back.

 

I don't know if it is as funny as it is a flaw in the way that posts by newbies are moderated and then printed. Were it not for you pointing this out, Carl, it may well have gone unnoticed for quite a while, if ever noticed at all.

Rich

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:59 PM

richhotrain
 
carl425

Y'all may have missed the response by the OP yesterday.  It appears that since being approved by the moderator, it was inserted into the thread when it was written rather than being tacked on to the end.

It looks kinda funny to have all the complaints about him not coming back after he came back.  

I don't know if it is as funny as it is a flaw in the way that posts by newbies are moderated and then printed. Were it not for you pointing this out, Carl, it may well have gone unnoticed for quite a while, if ever noticed at all. 

Rich

I noticed it as soon as a couple of posts by the OP magically appeared; what prompted me to look "further" was that I noticed the original post had a post count of 3 so I went looking for the other 2 posts and then found them unexpectedly inserted in page one out of sync with the responses.  Surprise

I would imagine this funky approval process would explain a number of other instances where someone joined the MR forums and posted an initial post and then there appeared to be no other follow up by that person for a while; at least as long as I was reviewing the thread for perhaps that first day.  In a few cases it seemed like what one person noted, a dropping a piece of meat into a shark pool and watching the frenzy.  Moral is, give it a few days as it may be a new forum account which isn't free yet to join in the discussion.  Clown

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Posted by Brammy on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 3:15 PM
It does. When I was in moderator purgatory, my approved posts would get stamped with the date and time I hit post; not the date and time it was approved. It leads to great confusion.
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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 3:22 PM

Well, the title of thread pretty much explains the initial feeling, regardless of any subsequent posts.

Despite that fact that DCC "requires" only two wires and can be run that way, reality says that most modelers with large layouts wire them with much more voluminous, if not complicated, wiring simply for feeders and reverse loops alone, not even counting power districts.

That's a lot of prep work that needs to be done under the layout before the system becomes just plug and play..not to mention going from layout to layout in a club setting or round robin layout tour setting. 

Contrast that to some other systems recently discussed and ....

well..that would seem to be the thought behind the title of the thread and the original post.

But nevermind.

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Posted by NKato on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 3:49 PM

Your statement is correct,  Doughless.

Madog, apology accepted. I'm thinking about how to handle wiring that layout. One way is to treat the seven foot halves of the module as two separate power districts fed by a booster each. That would keep the power distribution roughly even.

 

Since I plan to use my smartphone for a throttle, I don't necessarily need a throttle/command station combo.  I can just use a digital command station/booster/throttle combo for less than $200 and wire it up to my computer with JMRI, and I would not need a PR3, I think. 

Will that work? 

 

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 5:18 PM

BRAKIE
 
rrinker
I would LOVE to see how you can do "plug and play for a large layout". How large? What's the track plan? No reverse loops? 10 reverse loops? How many trains run at the same time, 3? 30? This is like saying there should just be one type of car on the road that automagically fits every purpose.

 

I would run a bus with feeders every 9' and a power booster as needed-simple wiring. The whole idea behind DCC.

I've seen my fair share of wiring overkill including my friends  DCC  switching layout. A 4x8 with a feeder on every track is overkill.

I'm yet to find the need to solder rail joiners.Of course I go the extra step to ensure they have a tight fit even if that requires a light squeeze with my 6" needle nose on the sides of the joiner just behind the rail joint.

BTW,I keep telling my friend Steve I need to bring my dikes over and clip some of that excessive wiring.Mischief

Seriously I told him on his planned Godzilla size basement "U" shape switching layout he will probably be wise to use boosters as needed since the layout will be 30' along the sides of the "U" and 24'  at the bottom of the "U" and I recommended feeders every 9'.

 

 Well that is the CORRECT way to do things, but not exactly "plug and play" in the typical intended meaning of the term (very little that is called "plug and play" really is - there's usually SOME fiddling around required). I mean, if it's supposed to be PnP, you shouldn't have to string any wires or solder anything (or use crimp terminals). I also agree the right thing is to use distributed boosters, even if you don't necessarily need the power, vs really long bus wires. And now comes the "figure it out" instead of "just plug it in" part - how many and where do you put them. You can cover 50 linear feet of railroad with no bus run being more than 25 feet if you locate the booster in the middle. On an E shaped layout, you could lcoate a single booster at the root of the penninsula and go 25 feet down it, plus 25 feet to either side. There are rues of thumb out there to help figure this out, but it seems no one bothers to read Wiring for DCC which has collected pretty much all of the information you'd ever need to figure out how to configure DCC to power any size layout. What's the old saying, you can lead a horse to water... fairly straightforward info presented there and on some other sites, but it's easier just to complain about how difficult DCC is.... And difficult compared to what? A simple train set oval with one loco? I'd tend to agree there, for some definition of "difficult" - DC power pack that comes with the train set, just plug the wires in (if it's anything like Bachmann or Kato track with the plugs on all the wires and their power packs), move the knob for speed and flip the switch for direction. DCC hookup is the same, but then there's the selecting the address on the throttle step which is not part of basic DC operation. Maybe installing a decoder, which can vary from easy to "how in the heck am I going to get that in there" if you don;t buy a loco already equipped with DCC. But as you go beyond a tricial laout, the DCC side becomes easier and easier to get the desired results while the DC side gets mre and more complex. No offense to Sheldon but a beginner who can't figure out a simple pair of wires under the layout with periodic feeder connections, all exactly the same in parallel, isn;t going to be able to figure out the interconnects that make a more complex control system like MZL work like it does.  

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Posted by Paul3 on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:40 PM

NKato,
Interesting idea with the rotary snow plow, but I think you're going to find it is impractical.  The powder ("snow") is going to go everywhere.  It's going to inhibit electrical contact for your rotary (not short it out, really) and your locos pushing it.  It may also spread far and wide off the edges of your layout.  At train shows the snow may become a slipping hazard.  Take a look at the G-scale working snow blowers on YouTube, and they spray real snow all around.  Imagine what powder would do instead?  Surprise

About your proposed layout: My club used to have a two 7' section portable layout.  It was great when it was built because a member had a full sized station wagon and would tote it to all the shows.  After he sold the car, the layout didn't get around that much anymore because few people have an enclosed vehicle that has a 7' or better clearance inside.  I would recommend a layout that would get each module down to less than 6 feet; at least then it would fit in most cars.

I don't know a thing about Free-Mo standards, but if this was a stand alone module, the first question I have to ask is how many engines and how many operators are you expecting to have?  If this is a one engine/one operator layout, then you don't neet much of anything for DCC wiring.  The infamous 2-wires would be all you need, but I would recommend connecting every siding to it.

If you're going to have a bunch of locos and several operators, then you might consider running two busses, one upper and one lower with perhaps a third buss for the mainline.  This means that you can add a circuit breaker for each bus if desired, so when one operator shorts out, the other can keep going.

I would also consider putting block switches for each track in your engine terminal, or maybe just one toggle for the entire place.  Sound engines can become annoying when just sitting there idling, and it's nice to just shut them off without acquiring each one and muting it.

Still, your 14' layout isn't all that large, and you probably won't be running that many locos.  A single starter set like the Digitrax Zephyr or the NCE PowerCab is all you need.  If my Zephyr ran my 25'x50' layout, it will run yours with ease.

Good luck!

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Posted by joe323 on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 9:40 PM

I think the key to wiring any layout is in he preparation for example drilling holes for the feeders before laying track permanently.  

Having spent yesterday afternoon untangling wires behind my computer convinced me of this even more with the layou.

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Posted by NKato on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:39 PM

Paul3

NKato,
Interesting idea with the rotary snow plow, but I think you're going to find it is impractical.  The powder ("snow") is going to go everywhere.  It's going to inhibit electrical contact for your rotary (not short it out, really) and your locos pushing it.  It may also spread far and wide off the edges of your layout.  At train shows the snow may become a slipping hazard.  Take a look at the G-scale working snow blowers on YouTube, and they spray real snow all around.  Imagine what powder would do instead?  Surprise

About your proposed layout: My club used to have a two 7' section portable layout.  It was great when it was built because a member had a full sized station wagon and would tote it to all the shows.  After he sold the car, the layout didn't get around that much anymore because few people have an enclosed vehicle that has a 7' or better clearance inside.  I would recommend a layout that would get each module down to less than 6 feet; at least then it would fit in most cars.

I don't know a thing about Free-Mo standards, but if this was a stand alone module, the first question I have to ask is how many engines and how many operators are you expecting to have?  If this is a one engine/one operator layout, then you don't neet much of anything for DCC wiring.  The infamous 2-wires would be all you need, but I would recommend connecting every siding to it.

If you're going to have a bunch of locos and several operators, then you might consider running two busses, one upper and one lower with perhaps a third buss for the mainline.  This means that you can add a circuit breaker for each bus if desired, so when one operator shorts out, the other can keep going.

I would also consider putting block switches for each track in your engine terminal, or maybe just one toggle for the entire place.  Sound engines can become annoying when just sitting there idling, and it's nice to just shut them off without acquiring each one and muting it.

Still, your 14' layout isn't all that large, and you probably won't be running that many locos.  A single starter set like the Digitrax Zephyr or the NCE PowerCab is all you need.  If my Zephyr ran my 25'x50' layout, it will run yours with ease.

Good luck!

Paul A. Cutler III

 

 

Interesting seeing that G-Scale snowplow. With that in mind, I'm wondering if there's a way to further mod the rotary snowplow (or a regular wedge plow) to also sweep the rails with a spring-loaded railplow made of rubber or plastic (the rotaries have that behind the front truck). That would resolve the electrical inhibition issue, I think.

The bus setup you suggested for my layout was something I was thinking of doing: Setting up the mainline as an independent bus so that other free-mo/NMRA module guys can run their trains through my module, and keeping the other two segments (railyard/train station, and the upper deck/internal switchback) separate from the mainline. My biggest question mark is: Can a single 5-amp DCC command station/booster/throttle like the DigiTrax DB150 handle that much rail? Or will I have to get two DB150's? Either way, I have plans to purchase a single DB150 to use for a cheap E-Z Trax setup for testing and programming my locomotives, so I can gain more experience with LocoNet and Decoder programming through JMRI.

Regarding the number of locos, I own only two BLI locos (GS-4 and PRR T1) at this time, and by the time this post clears the moderation queue, you should be able to see my loco carry box project that I posted up in General Discussion.

My view is that, eventually, when I finally save enough money (haha, yeah right...at age 32, and having no life savings...) to buy or build a house, I'm going to want to have a very large room for a model railroad layout. One idea I'm toying with is finding a way to connect my module layout with the permanent in-house layout. This is all so far in the future, though. :)

Also, excellent suggestion on the block switch: I'll definitely set one up for the engine house section. :D

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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, August 4, 2016 10:13 AM

NKato
it's more like... "A newbie who read up on a few articles, some of them being negative in nature, and others being too sparse in details, making the worst possible conclusion about DCC." I

The Internet can be misleading. Some of those comments are from folks with a particular axe to grind of their own – such as different technology that they prefer. So they highlight “issues” with DCC that most people using DCC never encounter. And, as in all areas, people who are happy don’t post -- but the relatively few who have issues do post (many of which could be solved by reading the documentation). Meanwhile thousands of layouts run fine on DCC, but their owners never post about it. There are alternatives to DCC, but the technology itself works fine for many, many users.

NKato
Is Free-mo good or bad? I know I'm designing my layout with free-mo in mind...since it's apparently compatible with regional Pacific NW free-mo standards and NMRA module standards.

Free-mo is fine. But note that there are significant differences between the Free-mo specification and the NMRA specification. The most important is the location of the main lines. Free-mo HO modules (main line centered on module end) will not be directly compatible with NMRA HO modules (main lines offset from front module edge).

That said, Free-mo clubs and layouts are much more popular right now because the standard is more flexible. So of the two, I think Free-mo is the way to go.

NKato
I'd like to try to keep the wiring as simple as possible, and maybe separate it into a total of four power blocks - "mainline/railyard" and "upper level" (there will be tracks about 7" above the mainline closer to the wall).

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don’t think that the grades work out in your sketch (but it may be that I am not understanding it). Where tracks cross over one another in HO, many builders prefer about 4” railhead-to-railhead clearance at least (with thin subroadbed above) where track cross at a sharp angle, more when they are directly above each other for longer distances.

When you consider that most builders want to keep grades (rise over run) to less than 3% and that you need to allow for transitions from level-to-grade and back, I think the grades in your plan might be unworkably steep. (In specialized situations where only the engine and a couple of cars will be climbing the grade, steeper grades are useable, but the transitions must be longer).

Unfortunately, everything that can be drawn in CAD can’t necessarily be built as drawn.

Good luck with your modules.

Byron

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 4, 2016 11:19 AM

All excellent points Bryon.

I have a Digitrax Super Chief radio system which works very well for many people, but the OP may want to take a look at NCE's system.  As I use mine more and more, I have been finding what many people do, that it's not necessarily intuitive for everyone how to assign and MU loco's - I'll have to make up cheat sheets but should I have to?  When I have the finances, I may bite the bullet and switch to NCE and keep my old Digitrax DT100 throttle for club use.  Something to consider.

Re: grades, good points Byron.  I've designed and built my layout and to get my track from the hidden staging yard up to the yard over the top in the 10x18' space I have without a helix, my grades came in at 2.9%, which is ok and two engines can handle a 20 car train ok but I wouldn't want to go more than that.  You are right that you have to have vertical transitions so your track doesn't go suddenly from 0% to 3% or whatever.  I built in transitions that go to 0.5 to 1.0, to 1.5 to 2.0 to 2.5 to 2.9 over a distance of some 12 feet or so.  One track barely clears the other and I had to use a thin metal strap support for the upper track passing over the lower to give plenty of clearance for tall cars like Autoracks or double stacks.

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Posted by Paul3 on Thursday, August 4, 2016 11:22 AM

NKato,
One additional issue with the rotary idea: the models made (Athearn and Walthers) have the blower blades set in "neutral".  On the real thing, the blades can be positioned to turn clockwise or counterclockwise so it will throw to either side.  When at rest, they are flat...which is how the model manufacturers have made them.  I don't know how well they'd do trying to blow powder.

My little 2.5 amp Zephyr handled not only my 200' of double track mainline, it also handled over 300' more for all my yards and sidings.  Believe me, the DB150 5amp is plenty for your switching layout.  The Zephyr is plenty, too.  I would recommend getting the Zephyr and, if you want walk around control, get a UT4 throttle.

The reason is that while the DB150 is more powerful, it is also has one limiting factor: it can't "read" a DCC decoder.  It will program them just fine, but it has no feedback capablity.  The Chief (the big system) and the Zephyr (a more modern system) can read a decoder.  I find this handy to have.

The Zephyr makes a good yard throttle.  It also has the ability to run two "jump" throttles.  These are regular DC throttlepacks that plug into the back of the Zephyr and turns them into DCC throttles.

Unless of course you want the DT402 throttle, which is nice because you can make and break MU's on it and throw mainline switches, both of which the UT4 cannot do.  The UT4, OTOH, has a great "feel" to it and is great for switching with it's reversing/brake toggle.

It's all about what you want and what you want to spend. 

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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, August 4, 2016 11:40 AM

riogrande5761
but the OP may want to take a look at NCE's system.  As I use mine more and more, I have been finding what many people do, that it's not necessarily intuitive for everyone how to assign and MU loco's - I'll have to make up cheat sheets but should I have to?

Agree -- NCE's consisting feature is very easy to use compared to others. In general, I find NCE pretty easy to work with. NCE is also the most popular system among the folks I know here in the Bay Area.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 5, 2016 2:50 PM

A few things you may want to take into consideration. 

1.  The DCC system your free-mo club uses (get the same).

2.  7ft long modules are going to be difficult to transport.  I would instead break it down into three 4ft modules and a 2 ft module if you must have 14 ft.  4ft fits much better in most vehicles.  My own club (Mohegan Pequot) has gone to making all new modules 4ft modules for this very reason.  If you absolutely must have long, go with two 6ft modules and one 2 ft.  Long modules tend also to be somewhat heavier than shorter ones.  I can extend the legs on my 4ft modules and set them up on my own with no assistance.  My three 6ft modules (recently purchased legacy modules from the club) require a minimum of 2 people to set up and 3 people to load into a vehicle.  If you decide to go with 7ft anyway, you are limited in vehicle choices (truck with 8ft bed or full size cargo van). 

3.  Width of the modules.  I have not read the Free-mo standard, so I don't know what the width specification is, but transporting (and using) modules over 30" wide gets difficult.  Especially cleaning the tracks on one side or the other, or correcting de-railments (which always happen on the furthest possible track).

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, August 5, 2016 3:25 PM

BMMECNYC "Andrew a Hoosier stranded in New England"

I had to comment you your siggy.  I'm a Indiana Hoosier grad twice over (BS and MS from Bloomington IN) but really I grew up in Northern California hence why I'm a western fan, mainly D&RGW and SP.  I'm stranded in northern Virginia.  I think I'd be worse for the wear if I were a Californian stranded in New England - brrrrrr!!!!

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Posted by NKato on Friday, August 5, 2016 3:30 PM

I'm thinking about getting the Zephyr Xtra. I need to find a used one so it's more affordable. Then I need to get a 90" turn of 22" or greater track (E-Z Trax) so I can lay it on my desk and use it while I experiment with DCC programming. (This is pretty much going to be the extent of my model railroading setup for a long while until I start making money at a job.)

If anyone has a spare Zephyr Xtra they can throw at me for like $50-75, that'd be super.

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Posted by NKato on Friday, August 5, 2016 3:32 PM

BMMECNYC

A few things you may want to take into consideration. 

1.  The DCC system your free-mo club uses (get the same).

2.  7ft long modules are going to be difficult to transport.  I would instead break it down into three 4ft modules and a 2 ft module if you must have 14 ft.  4ft fits much better in most vehicles.  My own club (Mohegan Pequot) has gone to making all new modules 4ft modules for this very reason.  If you absolutely must have long, go with two 6ft modules and one 2 ft.  Long modules tend also to be somewhat heavier than shorter ones.  I can extend the legs on my 4ft modules and set them up on my own with no assistance.  My three 6ft modules (recently purchased legacy modules from the club) require a minimum of 2 people to set up and 3 people to load into a vehicle.  If you decide to go with 7ft anyway, you are limited in vehicle choices (truck with 8ft bed or full size cargo van). 

3.  Width of the modules.  I have not read the Free-mo standard, so I don't know what the width specification is, but transporting (and using) modules over 30" wide gets difficult.  Especially cleaning the tracks on one side or the other, or correcting de-railments (which always happen on the furthest possible track).

 

 

In the end, I might just ditch the free-mo standard...but on second thought, how about this: If I built a model railroad layout in segments for a room, that would make it transportable to any houses I end up moving to (transportability is a huge aspect - having to tear down/write-off prior layout builds is just a big no to me). Such a scheme would allow me to create a 4-foot segment that I can pop in/out of the overall layout, and use as a free-mo module. I would like feedback on this idea. :) This approach would also let me model more of a railroad than I'd initially planned.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, August 5, 2016 4:41 PM

NKato

I'm thinking about getting the Zephyr Xtra. I need to find a used one so it's more affordable. Then I need to get a 90" turn of 22" or greater track (E-Z Trax) so I can lay it on my desk and use it while I experiment with DCC programming. (This is pretty much going to be the extent of my model railroading setup for a long while until I start making money at a job.)
.

KATO HO Unitrack has curve radius's that are bigger than the sharp 18 and 22 inch that Atlas has.  KATO goes has 24.x, 26.x, 28.x and 31.x and it's fairly reasonable if you order from MB Klein.  The quality is alot better too.

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Posted by NKato on Friday, August 5, 2016 4:50 PM

riogrande5761

 

 
NKato

I'm thinking about getting the Zephyr Xtra. I need to find a used one so it's more affordable. Then I need to get a 90" turn of 22" or greater track (E-Z Trax) so I can lay it on my desk and use it while I experiment with DCC programming. (This is pretty much going to be the extent of my model railroading setup for a long while until I start making money at a job.)
.

 

KATO HO Unitrack has curve radius's that are bigger than the sharp 18 and 22 inch that Atlas has.  KATO goes has 24.x, 26.x, 28.x and 31.x and it's fairly reasonable if you order from MB Klein.  The quality is alot better too.

 

I'm more likely to pick up the track from my local hobby shop which is only 5 blocks away from me. They have 28" radius track there, too. I'm probably gonna pick the 22" radius track instead, though, since I want to get a good handle on the minimum turning radius of my BLI locos and rolling stock. To be frank, I have to design my layout around 22" radiuses or larger, because chances are pretty good I'll be getting more BLI locos and rolling stock in the future (such as a Cab Forward, hopefully an AC-12).

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Saturday, August 6, 2016 6:32 AM

Your choice of course but 22" are, by todays standards, sharp curves.  If you are planning on running long steam engines like cab forwards, they will look silly on such sharp curves and some may not operate well.  BLI makes an AC-6 cab forward but if you want an AC-12, you'll have to get either the Riverossi or the Intermountain.  The Intermountain 3rd run is the best and if you want sound, those are about $400.

If you go with larger radius curves, you'll thank me later. Trust me.

You may want to read this topic where radius and long steam engines are discussed. 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/87475.aspx

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 6, 2016 11:15 PM

NKato
 
BMMECNYC

A few things you may want to take into consideration. 

1.  The DCC system your free-mo club uses (get the same).

2.  7ft long modules are going to be difficult to transport.  I would instead break it down into three 4ft modules and a 2 ft module if you must have 14 ft.  4ft fits much better in most vehicles.  My own club (Mohegan Pequot) has gone to making all new modules 4ft modules for this very reason.  If you absolutely must have long, go with two 6ft modules and one 2 ft.  Long modules tend also to be somewhat heavier than shorter ones.  I can extend the legs on my 4ft modules and set them up on my own with no assistance.  My three 6ft modules (recently purchased legacy modules from the club) require a minimum of 2 people to set up and 3 people to load into a vehicle.  If you decide to go with 7ft anyway, you are limited in vehicle choices (truck with 8ft bed or full size cargo van). 

3.  Width of the modules.  I have not read the Free-mo standard, so I don't know what the width specification is, but transporting (and using) modules over 30" wide gets difficult.  Especially cleaning the tracks on one side or the other, or correcting de-railments (which always happen on the furthest possible track).

 

 

 

 

In the end, I might just ditch the free-mo standard...but on second thought, how about this: If I built a model railroad layout in segments for a room, that would make it transportable to any houses I end up moving to (transportability is a huge aspect - having to tear down/write-off prior layout builds is just a big no to me). Such a scheme would allow me to create a 4-foot segment that I can pop in/out of the overall layout, and use as a free-mo module. I would like feedback on this idea. :) This approach would also let me model more of a railroad than I'd initially planned.

A couple key points on this. 

If you do plan on going the route of building a home module set, make sure you build in small sections (you already plan to).  Bolt the sections together (ease of disassembly). 

Wiring can be a hassle (fortuneately DCC needs only two wires for a basic setup), cutting then splicing the sections back together.  A simple terminal strip near the joint should minimize issues. 

If you have someone who can help you, you dont need legs on each table segment (especially if you bolt them together.  The first "table" needs 4, but after that you can do 2 legs on each section or 4 legs on every other "table".

They are a bit pricy, but installing T-nuts and carriage bolts in the legs help greatly with keeping your modules level, especially if you are going to be moving.

If you would like I can post a few photos of my layouts construction process (I did most, but not all of the things above. 

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 25 posts
Posted by NKato on Sunday, August 7, 2016 11:45 AM

BMMECNYC

 

 
NKato
 
BMMECNYC

A few things you may want to take into consideration. 

1.  The DCC system your free-mo club uses (get the same).

2.  7ft long modules are going to be difficult to transport.  I would instead break it down into three 4ft modules and a 2 ft module if you must have 14 ft.  4ft fits much better in most vehicles.  My own club (Mohegan Pequot) has gone to making all new modules 4ft modules for this very reason.  If you absolutely must have long, go with two 6ft modules and one 2 ft.  Long modules tend also to be somewhat heavier than shorter ones.  I can extend the legs on my 4ft modules and set them up on my own with no assistance.  My three 6ft modules (recently purchased legacy modules from the club) require a minimum of 2 people to set up and 3 people to load into a vehicle.  If you decide to go with 7ft anyway, you are limited in vehicle choices (truck with 8ft bed or full size cargo van). 

3.  Width of the modules.  I have not read the Free-mo standard, so I don't know what the width specification is, but transporting (and using) modules over 30" wide gets difficult.  Especially cleaning the tracks on one side or the other, or correcting de-railments (which always happen on the furthest possible track).

 

 

 

 

In the end, I might just ditch the free-mo standard...but on second thought, how about this: If I built a model railroad layout in segments for a room, that would make it transportable to any houses I end up moving to (transportability is a huge aspect - having to tear down/write-off prior layout builds is just a big no to me). Such a scheme would allow me to create a 4-foot segment that I can pop in/out of the overall layout, and use as a free-mo module. I would like feedback on this idea. :) This approach would also let me model more of a railroad than I'd initially planned.

 

 

A couple key points on this. 

If you do plan on going the route of building a home module set, make sure you build in small sections (you already plan to).  Bolt the sections together (ease of disassembly). 

Wiring can be a hassle (fortuneately DCC needs only two wires for a basic setup), cutting then splicing the sections back together.  A simple terminal strip near the joint should minimize issues. 

If you have someone who can help you, you dont need legs on each table segment (especially if you bolt them together.  The first "table" needs 4, but after that you can do 2 legs on each section or 4 legs on every other "table".

They are a bit pricy, but installing T-nuts and carriage bolts in the legs help greatly with keeping your modules level, especially if you are going to be moving.

If you would like I can post a few photos of my layouts construction process (I did most, but not all of the things above. 

 

 

For wiring, I'm thinking about using plastic connectors (similar to the kind you see with computer wiring, they have a "click" to them that secures them together) at the joints, so it's easy to just reconnect the wiring. The module section for travel would be my "central" segment which would be where I could control my layout centrally.

I'll keep your suggestion for the legs in mind. :D

If you want to share the photos, go ahead: I enjoy seeing other people's layouts being built. It's like a guilty pleasure.

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