I am contemplating buying a BLI locomotive. Is it posible to remove their proprietary decoder and replace it with a more standard one? I don't care about the sound.
I'm sure it is possible. But if you don't like the sound why not just turn the sound off?
I've done that, and installed a Loksound decoder. Take the shell off and remove everything but the wires from the trucks and the motor and start over from scratch.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I picked up a few deals on Blue-Line Broadway engines, mostly F-7s but a Mikado, too. It was pretty straight forward to yank the factory decoder, made by QSI, and install others. I used both Loksound Selects and WOWsound.
You will want to trace the wire assignments through the tender to cab harness if you are doing steam.
I really don't find the regular Broadway sound decoders to be all that bad and I'm not sure what you mean by "proprietary" since I can program all the features I want using Digitrax and DecoderPro.
What particular BLI engine are you unhappy about the decoder that it has?
Now, MTH— that's another animal, definitely a unique and proprietary system.
I only have one MTH engine and I would gladly rip out their DCS decoder but I am at odds with how THEY have their engines wired.
There are only two electrical paths between the engine and tender, fed through the drawbar. From these they get motor power, track power and headlight. I have already ripped out the smoke generator. It had the smallest motor and blower I have ever seen!
Regards, Ed
gmpullman I picked up a few deals on Blue-Line Broadway engines, mostly F-7s but a Mikado, too. It was pretty straight forward to yank the factory decoder, made by Precision Scale Models, and install others. I used both Loksound Selects and WOWsound.
I picked up a few deals on Blue-Line Broadway engines, mostly F-7s but a Mikado, too. It was pretty straight forward to yank the factory decoder, made by Precision Scale Models, and install others. I used both Loksound Selects and WOWsound.
Rich
Alton Junction
Yes, I did, Rich.
The first two BlueLines I bought from Factory Direct Trains never did program well for me. Yes, the sounds were fine and motor control was fine with an NCE decoder added but I could only get them to run on address 3 after a reset.
Finally one of the sound slots in the decoder went wonky and the prime mover would continually rev up and down repeatedly and endlessly.
When the WOW diesel decoders came out these were the first two to get converted. BlueLine, IMHO, was a poor marketing choice for BLI.
I have since picked up some bargain BlueLine, and "Stealth" series BLI diesels that I put other sound decoders into.
Thanks, Ed
gmpullman Yes, I did, Rich. The first two BlueLines I bought from Factory Direct Trains never did program well for me. Yes, the sounds were fine and motor control was fine with an NCE decoder added but I could only get them to run on address 3 after a reset. Finally one of the sound slots in the decoder went wonky and the prime mover would continually rev up and down repeatedly and endlessly. When the WOW diesel decoders came out these were the first two to get converted. BlueLine, IMHO, was a poor marketing choice for BLI. I have since picked up some bargain BlueLine, and "Stealth" series BLI diesels that I put other sound decoders into. Thanks, Ed
Seems I got confused with MTH and BLI.
I just ordered an Alco RSD-15 and was thinking it had the wonky decoder. At the moment I don't have any BLI or MTH locomotives. But it's nice to know I have options. And to stay away from MTH
Thanks
Hi Mark: can you give me the wire sequence on the plug that goes to the locomotive?
SouthPenn Seems I got confused with MTH and BLI. I just ordered an Alco RSD-15 and was thinking it had the wonky decoder. At the moment I don't have any BLI or MTH locomotives. But it's nice to know I have options. And to stay away from MTH Thanks
I don't know if you have to stay away from MTH, but just do some research before buying. MTH has it's own version of command control called DCS, and at one time it's models came with a decoder/sound system that pretty much only worked - or at least, could only be adjusted/programmed - with their own DCS system controller. My understanding is recent MTH engines come with decoders that, while still working under DCS, respond much better to standard DCC systems. I know someone who uses a Digitrax DCC system and has several of the MTH DMIR Yellowstones and is very happy with them.
About eight years ago I bought a HO F7 A and B with no decoders for about fifty each on specail. Not even wired for DC.
Go look now at the SoundTraxx site. Also, try the TCS site for WOW decoders.
I checked Soundtraxx decoder selector and found a light board decoder and 28 mm speaker for each. I set them up with LED's just like my PCM made by BLI F3 A/B lash up's and ran them an ABBA. One thing I did not like, the, the NYC F3 did not have the Mars light.
What a monster setup.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Hey Mark I'm going to persist in asking if you have any source for wire arrangements in BLI steam locomotives. I want to replace several locos with ESU decoders but need to know the wire arrangement going into the locomotive. I.e. For Y6B, L1s and consolidations.
would appreciate a reply.
Daniel Dernbach
Hoosak Central RR
BEFORE you rip anythign out, note where they connect. At least on older ones, the circuit boards were somewhat labeled, or in combination with what was next to it, it made it kind of obvious which wires went where. A peek at the other side in the loco should be fairly obvious which pins go to the motor, the track pickups, and the headlight.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hoosak Central RailroadHey Mark I'm going to persist in asking if you have any source for wire arrangements in BLI steam locomotives.
I have done several decoder replacements in BLI steam. The main difference in the plugs is weather the engine has a smoke unit or not.
This is the diagram from a early NYC Hudson:
IMG_1420_zpsbb3b7853 (1) by Edmund, on Flickr
It is pretty easy to sort out left and right rail pickups on the tender and trace those to the BLI decoder.
I don't bother with the "chuff sensor" at all. In one case, I removed the smoke unit from the smokebox and put a cube speaker in there. Used the former wires from the smoker and wired the speaker to those.
Here's the harness from a PRR T1:
BLI_T1_DCC2 (2016_08_17 08_08_12 UTC) by Edmund, on Flickr
IMG_6425_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Now I have to find the slip of paper I made the notes on to get the exact wire assignments.
1= Right Rail
2= Motor +
3=
4=
5= to Smoke unit
6=
7= Motor –
8= Left Rail
Here's the assignments I just checked on a Paragon 3 decoder with out smoke (7 pin) *Slightly different from the Hudson (P-2) above*
1= Right Rail (red)
2= Motor – (gray)
3= Headlight – (white) *Don't forget resistor needed*
4= Headlight + (blue)
5= Chuff Sensor reed switch.
6= Motor + (orange)
7= Left Rail (black)
You can use a AA battery to sort out the headlight (4 & 3 IIRC) in any case, every BLI I've done the outer two wires were track pickups and the next pair in were the motor leads.
It is really just a case of ringing out the circuit for that particular locomotive. At the moment I have a Paragon 3 "Pacific" on my bench that I'm ready to pull the decoder out of. I'll check that one as time permits and update this reply and fill in the blanks above.
Good Luck, Ed
I'm thinking of replacing the Paragon 4 in my N scale Big Boy with ESU or Soundtraxx. Figuring out the wiring was easy. The only issue is the smoke generator. Both companies say their decoders won't supply enough power to run the smoke unit. They say I need track power and a relay. Makes sence.
Do you have any idea if BLI placed a relay on the main decoder in the tender or on the secondary board in the engine? Not sure what they did on the install you shared.
Any info would be greatly appreciated
Thanks - Mike
Hi All,
I have just completed the replacement of the dual decoder system with WOW101-KA decoders in 3 BLI diesel (AC6000CW) locos, 2 Blueline and a Paragon 2. I have everything working fine and now I need to wire up the lights. I have tried to trace the wiring for the lights but it is confusing.
I have a number of questions if anyone can answer them for me:
Are the lights in these locos LEDs or GoW?
Are they 12v or 1.5v?
Do BLI use the Red wire as a common return (equivalent to the blue wire from the decoder)?
All the wiring for the lights at the front of the loco culminate in a small PC board. They have a headlight, number board lights and ditch lights. Can this PC board be utilised in the re-wiring? If I can determine which of the black and red wires coming from this PC board, relate to which light, is it as simple as connecting them to the appropriate wire coming from the decoder, assuming the remaining wire is the common or earth?
I thought I would ask before I wired so that I might avoid any brilliant flashes or puffs of smoke.
Regards
Dan
Hi, Dan
I haven't messed with any recent BLI diesels. The only ones I'm familiar with are the older F units and Sharknoses.
Your lighting might be setup like the way I'm encountering in more recent BLI steam (Paragon 3 and 4) where the lighting is controlled by a type of logic circuit. The thing to watch out for is that I have found BLI has been using a common cathode (—) and switching the anode (+) side which is opposite what the NMRA DCC standard is. MTH uses the same scheme.
Hobbies R FunCan this PC board be utilised in the re-wiring?
I've had to resolder wires onto those little PC lighting boards in order to use the stock LEDs.
Don't forget resistors!
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the quick reply.
Just to clarify, they are 1.v LEDs but they have used the Cathode as the common rather than the anode?
I am a little rusty on this, but if what you say is correct, then if I attach the blue wire from the Decoder to the current common, then I have reversed the polarity through the LED. This would not matter with an incandescant bulb, but makes a bit of difference with an LED, potentially destrroying it.
Is it possible to re-wire the PC board to correct the diretion of the current? Or shoud I break the connection of the LEDs from the board and connect them directly to the decoder wires?
This is an excercise in clear and logical thnking and any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
I think I may have worked it out!
The hint is on the main PC board that I removed from the loco. There are 2 plugs for the lights and four lights (or lighting groups as the ditch lights and number board lights are in pairs). There is also a plug with a single red wire connected which currently puzzles me.
I was able to trace the rear light to the plug on the PC board and this was marked Rc and Ra; I will assume "Rear cathode" and "Rear anode". The cathode was a red wire and the anode was black. The same plug had red and black wires heading off into the bundle of wires going to the front of the loco. These were marked on the PC board Fa and Fc; I will follow the convention and assume “Front anode” and “Front cathode”. Again, following the convention, the wires were black and red respectively.
If the convention continues throughout the rest of the wiring, I can assume all the anodes or positive wires are black and the cathode or negative are red – the opposite to our normal way of thinking.
Based on this last deduction, I just need to combine all the black wires (anodes/positives) and connect them to the blue wire from the decoder. Then I select the relevant colour (white for front and yellow for rear and so on) and connect to the respective red wire from each light (or group of lights).
I mentioned above, that there were two plugs for the lights. The second is marked Mc, Ma, Cc, Ca. I just need to work out which is the ditch lights and which is the number board lights.
And then there is the strange plug with a single red wire that is also in the bundle going to the front of the loco.
I will go back into the workshop and re-trace the wires just to ensure my theory is correct and see if I can work out what the single wire is.
Do I need a resistor for each LED or will a single resistor on the common return be enough. I have lots of 650ohm resistors available.
If you think I have really mucked this up, please let me know.
Cheers,
Hobbies R FunDo I need a resistor for each LED or will a single resistor on the common return be enough. I have lots of 650ohm resistors available.
Generally you want a resistor for each LED. If you put the resistor in the common, the current will be shared by all of the LEDs and the more you have on the dimmer each one will be.
Thank you for the comfirmation of the LED requirements. Ithought as much, but my theory is a little rusty as I haven't done this for a while. The lights are usually wired up ready to go with resistors in place.
With the BLI locos the resistors appear to be on the main board prior to the leads going out to the LEDs, so they went out with the PC board.