Before my loco goes in for repair I was wondering if anyone had experienced this issue before.
I have DCC/Sound equipped steam loco that wont respond at all to DCC commands. It will however run backwards at breakneck speed once track power is applied. I switched out the decoder - just in case it was an electrical issue with the decoder. No luck, it still runs the same.
Anyone have any ideas or insight on this.
Chris.
Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.
Sit back and enjoy your track...
Have to ask.......... Mfg?, Loco?, Scale?, factory or aftermarket decoder install?
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Please list the following information, it is vital to diagnosing your problem:
1. Brand and specific model of DCC system where problem has occured.
2. Brand of locomotive
3. Custom install of DCC/Sound or Factory
4. Brand of decoder installed in locomotive or if factory installed, mfg model number off of package.
5. Any programming you have done to the locomotive, CV settings you have changed.
6. Is the locomotive new in box or did it have a previous owner.
7. Have you tried a factory reset of the locomotive?
Without this information we cannot help you.
LOCO_GUY I have DCC/Sound equipped steam loco that wont respond at all to DCC commands. It will however run backwards at breakneck speed once track power is applied. I switched out the decoder - just in case it was an electrical issue with the decoder. No luck, it still runs the same.
Rich
Alton Junction
Sorry folks, I dind't think about it as a specific problem more of a general one.
1. The loco is a Broadway Limited T1 duplex PRR "as delivered".
2. It is factory brand new.
3. The replacement decoder was factory brand new.
4. The installation was done by me and it is indeed a simple board with plug-in connectors.
5. The reset was tried using the "hard reset on the board" and via a power cab on the programming track CV8 set to 8. None of this worked. It still runs full speed in reverse on the layout and programming track.
My guess is his BLI T1? (edit) missed him by one minute!
What say you, LocoGuy? We want to help but our hands are tied...
Are you CERTAIN you didn't get one of the plugs swapped? Here is a pic of a BLI board (this is a P3 though) and it is easy to reverse the two on the upper left.
Regards, Ed
ED, I photographed the interior of the tender to show all the wires conneting to the board before replacement - so I had a color photo to work from. Also, this issue appeared before I swapped the board. The board change was done in case the old board was making it run backwards due to a decoder problem. But the same thing was happening after the replacement.
Here's mine for reference.
I can't tell from your photo but is this plug in backward? It would be difficult to do, but just maybe?
Take a good look, the symptoms you describe sure sound like wires crossed going out to the jumper plug under the cab.
Good Luck, Ed
Loco,
Just for reference, too, I made this diagram some years ago. I think it is standard to all BLI locos:
Now, if that four pin connector was reversed it would only affect the outside four pins of the jumper. You have something shorting to the motor leads, gray & orange, possibly the blue + wire?
IF you can carefully apply DC from maybe a 9 volt battery to pin 2 and pin 6 7 on the locomotive it will tell you that the wiring is OK on the engine if the motor turns, then reverse the leads and run the engine in reverse.
So now you have to look at where wire 2 and 6 come into the tender and see why it is getting rogue voltage from somewhere. Did a connector pin get bent and is shorting another one?
I'm just throwing out ideas here...
[edit] the above sketch is for a SEVEN wire plug, our T1s have an EIGHT pin plug! The extra wire may be the number/class lights Smoke Unit .
Still, the outer four pins are railA/motor+ — motor—/railB
Ed
Ed,
I see where you are going with your ideas. I did check the leads/wires and plug pins for breaks, bends, etc. Everything looked fine to me - no expert here - but thinking about it there may be a posibility that there is a short inside the loco itself (the engine not the tender). So everything would look fine as far as the tender/wire harness but then those wires got inside the engine and we may have a problem there. The other thing is that even inside the engine there is a circuit board that supplies power to the different things like motor, headlight, side number board lights and the smoke generator - and who knows what else. So maybe somethings gone wrong in there.
I think this may be an issue for the pros to fix at BLI.
My original question was asked because sometimes you guys see the problem and go "Ah, you need to check the widget fits the doo-hicky" and its solved. I don't know how many questions I have asked and you guys nail it right away. Then like Homer Simpson I say DOH! and its solved.
LOCO_GUY I think this may be an issue for the pros to fix at BLI.
In your initial post, you said that the loco would not respond at all to DCC commands but that it runs backwards at breakneck speeds once track power is applied, so you switched out the decoder. Explain what all you meant by that statement.
1. The loco would not respond at all to DCC commands. Can you address to loco?
2. It runs backwards at breakneck speeds once track power is applied. How are you applying power?
3. So, you switched out the decoder. With the decoder from a matching BLI steamer?
LOCO_GUY Sorry folks, I dind't think about it as a specific problem more of a general one. 1. The loco is a Broadway Limited T1 duplex PRR "as delivered". 2. It is factory brand new. 3. The replacement decoder was factory brand new. 4. The installation was done by me and it is indeed a simple board with plug-in connectors. 5. The reset was tried using the "hard reset on the board" and via a power cab on the programming track CV8 set to 8. None of this worked. It still runs full speed in reverse on the layout and programming track.
How and where did you get the factory brand new replacement decoder?
It runs full speed in reverse on the programming track???
Rich,
Im try to put everything down here. Originally the loco was sent in for repair (about a two months ago - got it back about 2 weeks ago). I placed the loco on the programming track to try it out. The loco ran real smooth in forward and reverse (speed step 1). However, I did not notice any sound - so I checked the functions for the bell/whistle - nothing worked.
My first thought was - reset the decoder to see if I can get any sound. So I set CV8 to 8. Still no sound. So I removed the cover from the decoder (tender top) and did a reset with power applied to the track but the speed was at ZERO. The train then backed off the test track and stopped. I tried the loco on the layout - just in case I was missing something on the programming track - but as soon as the power was applied - still speed at ZERO it shot around the layout in reverse.
I spoke to the support people at BLI and they said it may be a decoder issue. I told them I could swap it out if they sent me a replacement. I got the replacement a few days ago and installed it. I then put the loco on the programming track but before I applied power I held the loco in place so it would not go backward off the track. As soon as power was applied - still at speed ZERO it DID try to go backward. Whilst holding the loco in place it tried to program the CV8 to 8 but of course got no response as it does not recognise the DCC commands. I also tried a hard reset using the button while holding the train in place as it wanted to go backward and still no response.
It's as if the loco (the engine portion with the motor) is "STUCK" in reverse and no DCC commands get through or are being ignored.
It's really difficult to test anything or reset stuff while the loco just wants to take off in reverse even at speed step zero.
LOCO_GUY Rich, Im try to put everything down here. Originally the loco was sent in for repair (about a two months ago - got it back about 2 weeks ago). I placed the loco on the programming track to try it out. The loco ran real smooth in forward and reverse (speed step 1). However, I did not notice any sound - so I checked the functions for the bell/whistle - nothing worked. My first thought was - reset the decoder to see if I can get any sound. So I set CV8 to 8. Still no sound. So I removed the cover from the decoder (tender top) and did a reset with power applied to the track but the speed was at ZERO. The train then backed off the test track and stopped. I tried the loco on the layout - just in case I was missing something on the programming track - but as soon as the power was applied - still speed at ZERO it shot around the layout in reverse. I spoke to the support people at BLI and they said it may be a decoder issue. I told them I could swap it out if they sent me a replacement. I got the replacement a few days ago and installed it. I then put the loco on the programming track but before I applied power I held the loco in place so it would not go backward off the track. As soon as power was applied - still at speed ZERO it DID try to go backward. Whilst holding the loco in place it tried to program the CV8 to 8 but of course got no response as it does not recognise the DCC commands. I also tried a hard reset using the button while holding the train in place as it wanted to go backward and still no response. It's as if the loco (the engine portion with the motor) is "STUCK" in reverse and no DCC commands get through or are being ignored. It's really difficult to test anything or reset stuff while the loco just wants to take off in reverse even at speed step zero.
Why was the loco sent back for repair two months ago? What was wrong?
What type of DCC system?
Do all of your other locos perform OK?
Are you able to address the loco or does it take off in reverse as soon as the power to the layout is turned on?
My guess is that it is a wiring problem with the loco (your mistake or a factory problem).
If you are saying that merely placing the loco on the programming track with the power on causes it to race backwards, something is drastically wrong because there wouldn't be enough power on the programming track to do that.
Couple of questions:
Did you try the holding the button then apply power while continuing to hold the button reset option?
Also what DCC system are you using?
Do you have an ohm meter, LocoGuy?
This is beginning to sound like one of the motor wires is pinched between the boiler and the frame when the boiler was screwed down. It has happened to me but I caught it before I put the engine on the layout.
This can also toast the decoder by feeding rail voltage back to the motor outputs!
Looking at the connector under the cab floor, the two pins just inside of the outer pins (so #2 and #7) are the motor leads from the decoder.
If you set your meter to ohms Ω and alternately touch one probe to the left wheel and right wheel and the frame, then the other test probe to those two pins you should not see the needle of the meter move (or beep if you hav a continuity tester). IF you have continuity between the frame and either of those two pins then there is a pinched wire or something else grounding the motor lead to the frame.
Why not try to remove the boiler and take a look?
The BLI wiring is very soft and flexible and it takes a bit of jiggling to get it all back in place before you put the boiler back on. I cut thin strips of Kapton tape to help hold the wiring in place.
For those who missed it, Loco_Guy in his second post wrote he did a reset with his Power Cab on the program track. I presume is Dcc system is then a NCE Power Cab.
Jack W.
Thanks for all the help with this issue guys - but I am thinking that this is the third time this loco has gone "wonky" on me and I think BLI needs to resolve it. They have sent me a pre-paid return label with an RA number - so it's going back to the shop.
I will see what the "tech" report says when I get it back from BLI and post the details here in case it will help somebody else who has a similar problem.
A note to previous posters:
jalajoie: correct it was on the programming track with power applied via the power cab. My programming track is not really a "programming track" as you experts would know it. Its just a couple of sections of track with the power cab connected to it. I call it the programming track because I can only change CV's using the power cab on that bit of track. The other four lines on the layout (3 main 1 branch) are powered by Bachmann e-z command controllers. The bachmann controllers are pretty basic - but due to BLI's function key mapping I can put all the functions I want on the bachmann controller - which makes them much more useful and fun.
Is this only happening on the "program" track while in programming mode?
Do your other DCC locos work properly?
I ask because we currently have at the club a PowerCab with a problem. It functions fine while being used as a cab on the main layout. However when used as a stand alone on a separate track in programming mode locos exhibit the same thing you are describing...run away at speed with no control.
I spoke to NCE about this and they say that it appears that something is wrong with the command station side of the cab. We also thought that we had a couple decoder problems until we figured this out.
EDIT: I see now that you state that the main layout is not NCE powered. So I suggest that you put one of your other locos on the NCE powered track and see if it does the same thing as the BLI.
Maxman,
Thanks for the info. But The loco behaves the same on the layout the same as it does using the power cab. Also, I have put other locos on the programming track and had no problems with DCC control or changing CV's.
LOCO_GUY Maxman, Thanks for the info. But The loco behaves the same on the layout the same as it does using the power cab. Also, I have put other locos on the programming track and had no problems with DCC control or changing CV's.
Are you using the Programming track function on the power cab or are you using Program on the Main?
BMMECNYC,
I use program on the main - as its not really a progamming track - see previous posts by me.
Anyhoo, I decided to send the loco back for repairs with BLI.
Loco Guy,
PLEASE forget trying to fix the loco and send it off to BLI (email them first). I currently have a sound chassis with them for repair, and I've had others in the past. They do a great job for reasonable (if any) cost.
While there are some very knowledgeable and helpful DCC gurus on this forum, sometimes the decoder is broken, and we just can't fix it.
Mobilman44,
Yep - totally agree. I have had a great response from BLI and the loco is already on its way to them.
The only reason I created this post is that there are so many knowlegable folks here that I thought it may be an easy fix - as I said in an earlier post - I sometimes have an issue I can't resolve and this forum usually comes up with a brilliant solution.
FYI,
I got the T1 back and it was a bad smoke unit that caused the issue. So I guess we were in the right track (no pun intended) when we thought it may be a short of the wires in the loco. I guess the bad smoke unit was causing a short.
It runs like a dream now - better than when I unboxed it.
LOCO_GUY FYI, I got the T1 back and it was a bad smoke unit that caused the issue. So I guess we were in the right track (no pun intended) when we thought it may be a short of the wires in the loco. I guess the bad smoke unit was causing a short. It runs like a dream now - better than when I unboxed it.
Great news!
Smoke units stink, just my opinion, of course. Last night I ran my L1 for the first time and forgot to turn off the mosquito fogger.
Wow! After about five minutes the layout room smelled like the lint in my dryer was on fire.
I'm sure glad BLI provides a physical switch to disable the confounded thing.
Happy Modeling, Loco_Guy!
Rich, Ed,
Thanks for the feedback on my post.
I really do like the fact that these locos produce smoke - it looks good on video etc. However, as I run stuff in the garage you can only do it with the garage door open and plenty of circulation.
They do have a CV (246) that you can set to zero so that the smoke wont start up on power up. Ed, it does have a switch also which is located under the cab - but I don't want to turn it off completely so I use the CV.
BLI did a great job - and I am not kidding when I say it runs better then when it was unboxed. I set it to speed step 1 on the test track and it moves back and forward. That never hapened when I first got it - probably due to the issue with the gears.
Anyhoo, its running on 18" radius curves with 5 Spectrum PRR heavyweights behind it without a problem - my other T1 runs on the 22" radius curves.