Hello,
I have a question.
Is it possible for 2 trains running in the same block to have individual stop - go ability. In other words, 2 trains in the same block, running in opposite or same direction come to a meeting point, can one of the trains be stopped allowing the other to proceed?
If so, how can this be accomplished?
Thanks,
cplmckenzie
no. not without using DCC which i assume you're not using since you mention blocks. DCC doesn't require blocks.
In general, with block control, each block is controlled by a single DC throttle and the operation of all locomotives within the block will be the same.
since locomotives are typically wired to run in the same direction with the same track voltage polarity, it wouldn't be possible to have locomotives run in opposite directions, nor could you stop one without stopping the other.
if your layout has a passing siding, each siding would be a separate block along with the tracks on either end of the sidings. Each block can be independently connected to a throttle, or none at all. This would allow one train to the stopped on one siding track while the other passes in the opposite direction on the other track.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I am a DC user with three cab control and double insulated blocks, meaning both rails insulated. You can do what You are explaining...but not with common rail wiring. I do it all the time. I can even push a locomotive from behind, just as long as I stay in the block that the throttle is controling. When done pushing, I can just back away from the train I was pushing and go back where I started from. Have been doing it that way for yrs.....that's how they did it long before DCC was even out. Like I said...it won't work on common rail wiring. Both rails must be insulated.....the key is knowing where the blocks begin/end.
In the pic' of the control panel, which is one of three...the track diagram is on the panel, where the white line shows a break, that is a block and the toggle switch controls what throttle You are using, independent of any other block. This is one of the first panel's which is only set up for two (2) cab control. Toggles are up for cab A , down for cab B, center off. There is a lot more wiring involved in wiring cab control with two rails insulated, but easy once You know how. That is one of the advantages of using DCC, less wiring involved. But I'll stay with My DC layout...been doing it for 65yrs.....It would be simple to convert it to DCC...just switch the power supplys...but I'm satisfied with what I have.
Take Care!
Frank
EDIT: I just realized...that You said independent control of two locos in same block....NO...
Railroad of LION is a single DC block. LION runs 10 trains at a time, each starting and stopping at stations, and holding for any unfavorable signals. LION has a 0-16 volt 10 Amp regulated power supply. There are no throttles or revesing switches. Layout of LION is a subway layout, subway trains do not go backwards.
So what majyck did the lion work? The trains are controlled by the track! As a train approaches a station there are several gaps cut in the power rail, each bridged by a 5.1 ohm resistor. [Mathmatecially, these resistors should be quite a bit more than 1/2 watt, but in practice this is not necessary since the train is on that track for only a few seconds.] An open gap stops the train in the station.
A Time clock pulls a relay that releases the train to the railroad (it closes the gap in fron to the train. The train crosses more "resistor gaps" to pick up speed until it is running at MAS. {Maximum Allowed Speed).
The LEFT rail is a hard ground, the right rail is the Power Rail, it receives +8vdc to opperate trains at their designated MAS. Obviously power must be supplied to the power rail between each station. Not so obvious is the fact that all of the cars of the train must be wired for power pickup otherwise the trains will not consistantly stop at the platforms. But then 48 wheel pickup is a good thing. LION doesn not even need to bother with wiring the crossovers.
The LION has then elaborated on this theme, adding BLOCK SIGNALS. The track detectors consist of reed switches installed between the guage, and are activated by magnets under the train. Below is realy board of LION. Each station edge has its own pair of relays (not including the trackside relay that starts the train). Each platform edge therefore requires five conductors from the relay room. These are Detection, Train Start, Red, Yellow, and Green.
The Relay Room:
The Cable interface panels, used for turnouts and other applications:
Examplar cable terminal wayside points.
Mounted on the "sub-fascia" of the layout these panels enervate the platform edges both at Prospect Park above, and 34th Street on the opposite side of the table. Each of these stations have two island platforms, for a total of four platform edges each. The panel to the far left is for the interlocking plant south of Prospect Park with its double crossovers.
As I said, railroad of LION has no throttles and no reversing switches, ergo no train operators. The LAYOUT is operated from this representation of a GRS Model-5 Interlocking Machine.
With trains departing the 242nd Street station every four minutes, the tower operator can be a very busy fellow. The TRAIN REGISTER logs each train in and out of the station. The clock is in real time. (the Stop/Pause control will stop all trains, the real-time clock, and the station control clock.)
For more information visit the website of the LION or click here to download the Operations and Maintenance Manual.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Simply put - no, you can't. Frank's works because there's more than one block involved. A single block? Can't be done with DC control. Something else needs to be added. Two DC locos facing each other, if they are int he same block controlled by the same throttle, one will run backwards rather than head towards one another. You can reverse the motor wires in one so it they will head into each other, and you cna make one take a siding, but unless you insualte the track and provide a switch to cut the power (creating another electrical block), you can;t stop one and let the other continue.
DCC allows full freedom of movement, there is nothing stopping you from crashing two trains into each other. Each loco is under completely independent control not matter where it is or what other locos oare ont he track - so you can do things like back a helper loco on to the front of a standing loco and train and couple up, then run both of them to pull the train.
However - frankly, many of the locos you have posted about are not worth converting to DCC. Those old pancake type motors, and pickup from only one side of each truck, makes them poor candidates for DCC. Even an inexpensive $15 decoder is worth more than some of those locos. It's not that they can't be converted, with enough time, effort, and money you can put a decoder in anything - just the results won't be very satisfactory.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the replies and their are a couple areas I will be studying up on.
Yes, I am slowly beginning to see the benefits of DCC, but I am DC.
I am sure these kinds of things were being done DCC came along.
Thanks Again,
Yes, they looked like they were being done before DCC came along. But the practice followed that of the real railroads, with track warrants and all. I assisted briefly in the construction of a club layout back in the '60s, and some of the blocks were real short. There must have been thirty or more blocks on the layout. They used some automatic switching devices so that the block seemed to follow the train. But then these guys worked for General Dynamics, and so yes, it was rocket science!
For the likes of you and me, each vigneete, is a separate scene, a separate block, and a train woking an industry would be in a different block than the one running on the mane lion.
So, to do what I want I would need two locos wired opposite,ie. Throttle position forward. Cab 1 wired to move forward, Cab 2 wired to move backwards, with a passing sighting.
Right.
cplmckenzie Yes, I am slowly beginning to see the benefits of DCC, but I am DC.
Rich
Alton Junction
If you have multiple blocks, you do not need to reqire anything. Throttle 1 would control loco 1 moving left to right, and throttle 2 would control loco 2 moving right to left.
The siding, and the block to the left of the turnout would be connected to throttle 1. The main line and the block to the right of the siding would be connected to throttle 2. As train 1 entered the siding and cleared the turnout, you would stop it via throttle 1. Throw the switch for the main, and set the block to the left of the turnout to throttle 2, so train 2 could continue moving past. Once train 2 has cleared the right side turnout of the passing siding, you set the block to the right of that turnout to throttle 1, and start up train 1 and pull back onto the main.
Instead of having each power pack hooked to a dedicated loop of track, you would break ALL of the track up into train length sections with insulated joiners (or cut gaps in the rail). Each of these sections would be fed from a DPDT center off toggle, using the center terminals,. One side would connect to power pack 1, the other to power pack 2, so that any given section could be powered by either pack or shut off (the center off position). For more than 2 cabs you need to get a bit more complex with rotary switches or other forms of cab control that allow for more than 2 cabs.
cplmckenzie So, to do what I want I would need two locos wired opposite,ie. Throttle position forward. Cab 1 wired to move forward, Cab 2 wired to move backwards, with a passing sighting. Right. cplmckenzie
No, there is no modification to the locomotives. It is all done by the track blocks.
Hard wire the LEFT rail to ground. Tie the left output of each power pack to ground. Using single pole double throw center off switches, you install a switch for each power block that you will have on your layout. Throttle 1 is connected to the upper terminal of the control, Throttle 2 is connected to the lower terminal of each control. The center tap connects to the right rail of the track block. Each train will move in the direction dictated by the reversing switch on that power pack.
Cplmckenzie,
In the link I will provide...look at fig.1 for 2 cab/throttle control block wiring with both rails insulated and using DPDT Center off toggles and read about it. Fig. 2 is wiring for DCC Just click on link....You should also be able to enlarge the photos, by clicking on them:
http://www.nottawasagamodelrailway.com/DCCAdvanced.html
BTW: It would not hurt to read everything on the whole site....lot of good info for a newbe and oldie alike.