Has anyone ever compared the Econami to the Wow Sound for diesel sound effects (especially prime mover and horn)?
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
All sound decoders have their pros and cons. I would suggest joining the Yahoo SoundTraxx Group and see what is being discussed.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NCE-DCC/info
There is also a LokSound Group.
Not sure if there is a TCS Group yet.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
There's been a TCS group for years. TCS is not new to decoder manufacturing, I've used their decoders since 2004.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Funny thing .... everyone thinks the prime mover should notch up before the engine moves. In reality, when a throttle is moved to notch 1, all that does is connect the generator to the traction motors, no increase in engine rpm. Engine rpm doesn't actually increase until notch two.
Loksound programs their decoders from the factory so they DO rev up before the engine moves, only because the majority of people want them to - even if it isn't proto-typically correct. You can, however, change it through a CV adjustment so it does work proto-typically if you desire.
The reason people think it should is because that's what we see when an engine is beginning to pull a train. That's only because the engineer immediately places the throttle in notch three or four to get the train moving. Chances are pretty good, it won't get a train moving in notch one. When running light (no train), an engine will easily move off on its own in notch one with the prime move still at idle.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Every diesl powered train I've been on, the prime mover revs up before the loco moves, or at least right as it does, as the load on the generater increases when the traction motors cut in and the train starts to move. Perhaps on a light engine move it's very slight since there's far less load than pulling a heavy train. There's always a lag between sound and movement. Getting a cab ride and staying on while the train was rearranged for the trip back really made some things more obvious about how locomotives work. Yes, it's usually not notch 1 to start. But putting momentum on the decoder and having the sound rev up rioght away is the only way we can get small models to simulate the big momentum. I've been doing it right all along - I set momentum so the loco doesn;t jackrabbit if I open the throttle quickly, but I get the prime mover reevving up, and then as the train starts to move, I back down on the throttle so the train doesn;t exceed a reasonable speed. If I actually just click to step 1, it doesn't really rev, at least on the projects I've used. It's far closer to the prototype than the silly way Tsunamis do it when they don't even play the engine startup sound until notch 1. And don't get me started on the use of e-stop to shut down. That belongs on a function button. Not all systems have local e-stop functionality that only stops your loco and not the entire layout.
Mark R. Funny thing .... everyone thinks the prime mover should notch up before the engine moves. In reality, when a throttle is moved to notch 1, all that does is connect the generator to the traction motors, no increase in engine rpm. Engine rpm doesn't actually increase until notch two. Loksound programs their decoders from the factory so they DO rev up before the engine moves, only because the majority of people want them to - even if it isn't proto-typically correct. You can, however, change it through a CV adjustment so it does work proto-typically if you desire. The reason people think it should is because that's what we see when an engine is beginning to pull a train. That's only because the engineer immediately places the throttle in notch three or four to get the train moving. Chances are pretty good, it won't get a train moving in notch one. When running light (no train), an engine will easily move off on its own in notch one with the prime move still at idle. Mark.
Mark,
Thank YOU, Thank YOU, Thank YOU. I have been communicating that for years in this forum. But for some reason it doesn't seem to be understood. Soundtraxx is just fine and it can be set up to do whatever you want anyway.
Engines run light through a yard all the time and I've even seen them run with a car or two in notch 1. I've also seen them notch up to get started with a couple of cars and then back to notch 1--idle as they move through the yard, not coast.
Richard
Interesting discussion here, I think I've learned something. However, I would like to know which decoders offer true 16-bit sampled sounds. In other words, not just a 16-bit mixer or 16-bit DAC or 32-bit DSP, but actual sample data with 16-bit depth.
Witht he limited frequency response of the small speakers used, you won;t hear much if any difference. Just hit on that topic on the Loksound Yahoo Group today. 8 bit vs better, definitely can hear. Loksound did tests, 12 bit vs 16 bit, not noticeable.
WowSound plays actual 16 bit 44Khz samples, since the sounds are stored on a cf memory card on the decoder. In video samples they do not sound any better than any other high end sound decoder, overall. Discounting things like Tsunami's poor horns.
Train Modeler Mark R. Funny thing .... everyone thinks the prime mover should notch up before the engine moves. In reality, when a throttle is moved to notch 1, all that does is connect the generator to the traction motors, no increase in engine rpm. Engine rpm doesn't actually increase until notch two. Loksound programs their decoders from the factory so they DO rev up before the engine moves, only because the majority of people want them to - even if it isn't proto-typically correct. You can, however, change it through a CV adjustment so it does work proto-typically if you desire. The reason people think it should is because that's what we see when an engine is beginning to pull a train. That's only because the engineer immediately places the throttle in notch three or four to get the train moving. Chances are pretty good, it won't get a train moving in notch one. When running light (no train), an engine will easily move off on its own in notch one with the prime move still at idle. Mark. Mark, Thank YOU, Thank YOU, Thank YOU. I have been communicating that for years in this forum. But for some reason it doesn't seem to be understood. Soundtraxx is just fine and it can be set up to do whatever you want anyway. Engines run light through a yard all the time and I've even seen them run with a car or two in notch 1. I've also seen them notch up to get started with a couple of cars and then back to notch 1--idle as they move through the yard, not coast. Richard
For years I was always in the same camp as others when it came to assuming the engine revved up before it moved. It wasn't until I went on a recording session with ESU and spent some intimate time with an Alco C630 that I learned otherwise. Even got to run it for a while. That was a real eye-opening experience into how a real locomotive functioned.
The prime mover does not change rpm in notch 1. In idle position, the generator is disconnected from the traction motors, even though in idle, the engine IS turning the generator. In notch 1, the generator is connected to the traction motors and the current from the generator at idle is fed to them which is sufficient to get the engine under way either when light or with a light load.
I can accept the idea that 12 bits is as good as 16 bits in this application. So maybe I should be asking: which decoders provide better-than-8 bit-samples? Tsunami or Econami? What about the Loksound Select?