I'm finally building a staging yard for my layout. It will have 5 tracks, with 4 Tortoise-powered turnouts. I just bought a Digitrax DS44 quad stationary decoder.
I plan to run these from the throttle, but I'd like to use some sort of route control so I only have to make one selection and my Lenz DCC system will take care of the rest for me. But, I've looked through all the manuals and I've come up pretty empty.
Is this even possible? It seems I've heard it discussed, but since I have always run my turnouts from a panel, the old-fashioned way, I never paid much attention.
Is the DS44 the wrong component?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Per the instructions of the DS44 you can set up 4 turnouts for a route as I read the instructions.
Maybe you missed the section on that from Digitrax
woodonePer the instructions of the DS44 you can set up 4 turnouts for a route as I read the instructions.
DS44 instructions are here: http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/products/stationary-decoders/ds44/documents/DS44.pdf As I understand those instructions, you can get the DS44 to throw one route with one command, but I'm not sure how you would get a second route wiring the DS44.
I think Mr. B needs to look at his Lenz control system instructions and see if there is anything in there that describes what NCE calls a macro. With a macro, one can control any number of turnout decoders to throw in one pre-set pattern for one route with one macro value entry, and then throw some (but not all if you don't want to) of the same turnouts to align with a different route.
As far as I know, Lenz does not support macros.
I would be deighted if someone can prove me wrong as I also have Lenz and would like to use routes rather than throwing individual turnouts.
Bll
While this won't help Mr. B, I have an NCE PH-Pro system. I use an NCE Switch-8 to control 8 Tortoises with the Switch-8 acting as a series of 8 stationary decoders. An additional Switch It controls another two Tortoises with the Switch It acting as 2 more stationary decoders. An NCE Mini Panel permits me to program a series of macros from my NCE throttle, setting up a series of routes for my 10 passenger station turnouts with a flip of a toggle switch on my conrol panel.
I assume that Mr. B is trying to do something similar for his staging yard. The DS44 is similar to my Switch-8. But he needs the equivalent of my Mini Panel to program macros.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks. I've looked at all the documentation and it doesn't even mention route control. Oh, well, it's only 4 turnouts.
I have my 10 track staging controlled by turtle machines using Route control with just a Rotary Sw.
The reason I did this was to keep my Operators from having to remember what the Route or Turnout number was.
I operated on one layout once that the Owner just loved to have all of his turnout controlled from the Throttle.
It was OK - EXCEPT he would NOT number then in some way and the Occassional Operator had NO WAY of knowing which Turnout he needed to key into the Throttle
If YOU are running by yourself - then this OK as you are the only one that has to remember the Turnout numbers.
If you run with others - consider their fustration in having to fumble around figuring out the Turnout or Routes!
With a simple Rotary Sw - one just has to turn it to the track one needs and the Turtle Route Control does all of the work!
The method I used was in Model Railroader May 2009 - "Easy Yard Ladder Control"
I changed over all 5 of my Staging Yards and even Automated my Turning WYE using this method!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Here are some photos showing my setup.
The first photo shows the Switch-8 on the left and the Switch-It on the right. These are the stationary turnout decoders.
The second photo shows the Mini Panel where routes are programmed from the throttle. It is wired to momentary push buttons on the control panel.
The third photo shows the control panel with 10 momentary push buttons to activate the routes.
DS44 does not do routes. You need a different stationary decoder that can do routes. The DS64 is probbaly overkill, there are some options like the Wabbit or the Team Digitral SRC16 (which is also probably as much overkill as the DS64, since like the DS64 is does a LOT more than just control Tortoises).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I might note that the NCE Switch-8 and Switch-It circuitry is nothing more than multiple stationary decoders. But, that is all that they are. You still need something like the NCE Mini Panel to program routes, using these stationary decoders. If you just have a Switch-8 and/or a Switch-It, that won't be enough to program routes.
richhotrain If you just have a Switch-8 and/or a Switch-It, that won't be enough to program routes.
It is if you have a NCE DCC system.
I do have an NCE system.
I'm just not saying it right.
The Switch-8 and Switch-It are simply stationary decoders.
You need a Mini Panel to program the macros that set the routes.
maxman richhotrain If you just have a Switch-8 and/or a Switch-It, that won't be enough to program routes. It is if you have a NCE DCC system.
Or Digitrax, Digitrax can do routes in the command station, similar to the 'macros' in NCE.
richhotrainYou need a Mini Panel to program the macros that set the routes
I think you need the Mini Panel to set routes as you have it, where a push button activates all the turnouts for a particular route. But if you just want to set a route from the hand controller and operate that way, then you do not need the Mini Panel. (again assuming a NCE or Digitrax system)
However we got on talking about everything BUT the system MrBeasley has, I'll never know. The solution for him, however, is one of the various OTHER stationary decoders besides the DS44 which can store routes in the decoder itself. With the right device, a yard situation could be handled by say setting accessory 1 to closed, which would activate whichever Tortoises are required to line the yard up for track on. Select accessory 2 would line track 2, etc.
rrinkerThe solution for him, however, is one of the various OTHER stationary decoders besides the DS44 which can store routes in the decoder itself.
Might be best if you mention which decoders they might be as the rest of us don't seem to know.
I did, in my first post. Digitrax DS64, DCC Specialties Wabbit, Team Digital SRC16. There are others.
maxman richhotrain You need a Mini Panel to program the macros that set the routes I think you need the Mini Panel to set routes as you have it, where a push button activates all the turnouts for a particular route. But if you just want to set a route from the hand controller and operate that way, then you do not need the Mini Panel. (again assuming a NCE or Digitrax system)
richhotrain You need a Mini Panel to program the macros that set the routes
richhotrainSo, you're saying that with just a Switch-8 and a throttle, you can control routes for multiple turnouts?
Yes. Here is a link to an NCE manual: http://ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/sysman07.pdf. See Macros Explained on page 44, and Programming Macros on page 75. With your switch-8 and the switch-it you can control 10 individual Tortoises (not counting any cases where you may have two Tortoises operating at the same time as in a cross-over). With the macros you can operate them in any combination you want to set up a route. There are some downsides. For one it takes two macros to throw a turnout in both directions. For example for a single turnout you need one macro to throw the turnout for normal, and another to throw it for reverse. Another downside is that you need to remember which macro controls which route, requiring a list somewhere.
The way you have the mini-panel set up you have a much more elegant solution because you have a visual panel and the pushbuttons, so you don't need to remember to which addresses you have the switch-8 and switch-it assigned. But yes, it can be done.
With NCE and Digitrax and a few others you can do that. The Switch 8 is basically the same as a DS44 only it can control 8 tortoises. And it has button inputs so you cna have local pushbuttons as well as use throttle commands, But it has no facility to cascade the turnout outputs to automatically change the position of 2 or more from a single command. NCE has Macros, Digitrax has Routes, and others that have this capability may call it something different, but the concept is generally that you select turnout 5 on your throttle (number does not even have to correspond to one of the address on the stationary decoder, it's just a 'dummy', and when you change it to the 'thrown' position, what ACTUALLY happens is that the tortoise on output 2 of the stationary decoder moves to the right, the tortoise on output 3 moves to the left, and the one on output 7 also moves to the left. Doing electronically what the old diode matrix did for twin coil machines. In the case of NCE or Digitrax, the input triggering the route does not have to come from the throttle, each brand has various devices that allow a pushbutton to generate a command as if it came from the throttle, in the example, the pushbutton would cause the input device (NCE mini panel, inputs on a Digitrax DS64 or SE8C) to effective generate the command that says set switch 5 to thrown. The command station or stationary decoder or panel, when it see that command, generates the sequence of commands to operate all involved turnouts, same as if you had issued the command from the throttle.
It does not appear Lenz has this capability in the command station, thus you need a somewhat more complex accessory decoder than the Switch 8 or DS44 to gain this functionality. Since the concept of the 'routes' is in the accessory decoder, configured via setting CVs, it does not matter which DCC system is actually sending the control packets on the track bus, so the stationary decoder will work with any DCC system capable of sending accessory control packets, which Lenz most definitely can.
rrinkerThe Switch 8 is basically the same as a DS44 only it can control 8 tortoises. And it has button inputs so you cna have local pushbuttons as well as use throttle commands,
Just to clarify, unless there has been a design change of the Switch-8s recently they do not have pushbutton inputs.
richhotrainSo, you're saying that with just a Switch-8 and a throttle, you can control routes for multiple turnouts? Rich
Hi Rich
Correct! No need for a mini panel. Routes work fine with a Switch 8 on NCE. However the OP has Lenz and Lenz does not support routes. I have heard mention of a workaround but haen't seen details.
Bill
rrinker However we got on talking about everything BUT the system MrBeasley has, I'll never know. The solution for him, however, is one of the various OTHER stationary decoders besides the DS44 which can store routes in the decoder itself. With the right device, a yard situation could be handled by say setting accessory 1 to closed, which would activate whichever Tortoises are required to line the yard up for track on. Select accessory 2 would line track 2, etc. --Randy
maxman and bagal, thanks for your replies on the Mini Panel issue.
Thanks for the discussion. I guess it's not going to work, but there are only a few turnouts so no big deal.
Mr. B.
It is time to dump the Lenz and move up to NCE!
Sure, it'll work. Just use a DS64 instead of the DS44. It can be programmed with eight routes, and each route can have up to eight addresses.
If all you ever want to do is a single route, then yes, the DS64 might be overkill. But on the other hand, once you have those additional abilities available, you just might find a use for them.