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4-Loco Consist - Speed Matching

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  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, November 11, 2013 7:51 PM

rrinker

 I thought about setting that all up, at least on all the decoders that support CV2, 5, and 6 (which is every one I own except one...guess the brand...) so that different categories of locos woul dhave different throttle responses, and top speeds would be limited to something prototypical even if the throttle was wide open...

Never got around to it, I just find myself workign the throttle differently based on the type of loco, and never really crank it up all the way. There IS an advantage to actually doing all the setup though - if the model is a rocket and runs at 80 scale MPH at full throttle and really should only do 40, by setting CV5 to limit the top speed, you get half the speed change with the same range of motion on the throttle, making each movement of the knob that much of a smaller incrememnt for finer control.

 I don't mess with CV2 much, all of my non-sound decoders are TCS and their auto-adjust BEMF always starts on step 1 without messing with CV2. Really, all I do with most of my locos is install the decoder and assign an address.

               --Randy

Randy,

Interesting that you bring up top speed.

With my Train Engineer throttles, and my 13.8 Volt regulated power supplies, it is also interesting how many locos only reach "realistic" top speeds at full throttle. Example - At 13.8 volts, my older production Proto E8's (I don't have any of the new Walthers regeared versions) run at 88 smph - a typical top speed for those locos.

This is true of a great many of my locos, at 13-14 volts, they run at realistic top speeds for their type.

Sure, there are a few hot rods, but by limiting the voltage to 13.8 in the first place, the full range of the throttle is available in most cases, without exceeding reasonable scale speeds.

Again, without a whole lot of ajustments or programing.

For whatever it is worth, the old NMRA DC propulsion standard was that a loco should reach a reasonably prototypical top speed at 12 volts. So apparently some of these manufacturers have been paying attention over the years.

Sheldon

 

    

  • Member since
    July 2006
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Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, November 11, 2013 8:52 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
It is really amazing how differently some of these locos run on DC once the dual mode DCC decoders are gone.

  Sheldon.

  It's amazing that some of  the advanced DC systems can really mess with a decoder. A friend of mine has a system he built with recycled electronics. It pulses DC on the rails at such a frequency that dual mode decoders will either just sit there or take off like a rocket. Block control with wired hand throttles. Very responsive system that pulses or kicks at low throttle and the pulses degrade as the knob is turned. It is a small switching layout (Point to point about 24 feet long around two walls) with 2 throttles that have different plugs so you can't mess up and plug into the wrong block. Timed relays between blocks keep the trains running until the next block. The only switch is the one for the wye. To keep your train running into the next block you have to plug your throttle into the next block plug before you reach the end of the first block. The timers are set for about five seconds. Plenty of time to reach the next block plug. Neat system and works very good but you still can't go different directions in the same block.

         Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,312 posts
Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, November 11, 2013 9:20 PM

rrinker
I don't mess with CV2 much, all of my non-sound decoders are TCS and their auto-adjust BEMF always starts on step 1 without messing with CV2. Really, all I do with most of my locos is install the decoder and assign an address.

   Randy.

 Most of my 70+ decoders are TCS but I have to say a majority are before they put BEMF in. I too am stuck with 2 of those non adjustable top speed decoders from the company not mentioned. I actually hate them and think they were a total waste of rare hobby dollars. Like I posted earlier one is getting changed out for a WOW in the next couple of weeks.

  My sound decoders (all steam except for one) is a mix of Loksound , QSI ,Paragon 2, and Blueline with TCS motor control. I sold off 3 Soundtrax LC decoders and bought LS Select.

        Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:39 AM

 It's amazing that some of  the advanced DC systems can really mess with a decoder.

Pete,

I have the same situation here. I use Aristo Craft Train Engineer radio throttles. They produce a pulse with modulated output just like the motor control from a DCC decoder. The speed control is exceptional, but most dual mode decoders will simply not work at all, or work poorly at best. Yes, many decoder equiped locos simply sit and vibrate, others experiance delayed starts, jackrabbit starts, no slow speed, etc.

My layout is a double track mainline and I use an advanced cab control system that allows throttles to be assigned to track sections by pushbuttons as operators walk around - from either end of each track section - so there is no doubling back - OR - the CTC dispatcher can handle all cab assignments as part of clearing signals. All done with lighted pushbuttons and relays, as are the fulling intergated turnout routing controls. Track routes through complex interlockings are set by pushing one button.

So with a dispatcher, operation is much like DCC to the mainline operator - drive your train on the trackage where you have green signals.

The layout is designed for long trains and is relatively large but simple, so this system works very well, much like the prototype.

Sheldon 

    

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:54 AM

Sheldon, have you ever made a video, or would you consider making one, that shows your layout being operated in the way you describe it?

It sounds fascinating, and I, for one, would love to see how it operates.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:25 AM

richhotrain

Sheldon, have you ever made a video, or would you consider making one, that shows your layout being operated in the way you describe it?

It sounds fascinating, and I, for one, would love to see how it operates.

Rich

Rich, right now the layout is being rebuilt, but when it is a little farther a long I will happily do so.

I had the layout well on its way to completion some years ago, then the wife and I decided that we did not want to stay here to retire. I decided then to rebuild the layout in a modular form rather than complete it and have to tear it down latter.

I do have a friend nearby, with the "single track, no signals" version of my control system, and I really should talk to him about the same thing. We could make a video of his operation, which is very similar.

All I would need to do is learn how operate one of these new video cameras, which I don't really have. I have a still camera that takes video, but I have never had much luck using it.

Here are a few pictures of the controls on my friends layout:

The buttons you see assign throttles, his layout uses all ground throws for turnouts, there are seven "town" panels similar to these two which assign all the cabs as you walk around the layout.

His layout theme is early 1900's logging/shortline.

A typical "town" has only two primary track sections to assign, all other power routing is done by turnout postion. Trains can enter the town, pass an opposing train, work the sidings, all with only the turnout controls and pushing a button or two. Redundent buttons for the next town allow the opperator to move to the next town without any doubling back to assign or drop cab assignments. Four trains can navigate the point to point mainline in any direction all at he same time. like my layout, he uses Aristo Radio throttles. There are staging yards at each end. 

Sheldon

 

    

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:45 AM

Sheldon, I am going to encourage you to do just that.

It would be fascinating to see it in operation because it sounds pretty darn cool to read about it and its capabilities.

Rich

Alton Junction

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