Can someone offer this old model railroader some advice as to how I create plug in locations for the walk around throttle for my MRC Control Master 20 transformer. The plug in looks very similar to a phone jack operation. Having never done this before I am lost and I cannot find information as to how to wire this and also connect it to the power output from the actual transformer. I only need 1-2 other places to plug in my hand held throttle. In current operation, I am stretching my hand held cord too far.
Looking for some help!
A quick google of Control Master 20 brought up the MRC web page. The Control Master 20 instruction manual is available for download here: http://www.modelrec.com/search/product-view.asp?ID=1264
The instruction manual gives the color code of the wires for installing extra jacks around the layout. According to the manual, standard 4 wire telephone jacks and plugs are used (RJ-12?). I would wire in a phone cable splitter before the existing jack and then add as many jacks as desired. Supplies are available at Radio Shark (sometimes), Lowe's, Home Depot, and all the usual suspects.
hope this helps
Fred W
Thank you! Of course I should have read the manual!
Before switching to DCC I had two MRC-Control Master 20. I wnet to (Home Depot/Lowes) and purchased two outlet phone jacks and placed them around the layout. I also purchased the modular phone line splitters. This made the wiring easy to do.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Read your response concerning the Control Master 20. Unfortunately MRC took the instruction manual off their web page.
Now I have to search somewhere else to find out if I can wire my layout with a CM 20. A response from MRC said to use 6 post male & female plugs. Yet I see where some modelers have used 4 post plugs.Now I'm really confused.
Anyone out there that can help me?
Walt
Pretty sure it's just 4 pin, RJ11 jacks. Look at the plug on the end up the handheld - if there are 4 wires or 6 will determine which type of jack you need. Additional plug in stations are simply wired in parallel with each other, if you buy the type of jack with screw terminals on it, just connect all the like wires together - red to red, green to green, yellow to yellow, etc.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I did this with CM 20's some time ago, now removed for DCC. Had an issue with getting the wire order backwards on one end - to reverse or not to reverse..etc. Tried it one way and wound up reversing the order to get it to work.
Only four wires electrically. But you also need to check the plug size. Don't ask how I know.
Dick Chaffer
Bozeman
waljua Read your response concerning the Control Master 20. Unfortunately MRC took the instruction manual off their web page. Anyone out there that can help me? Walt
I Googled Control Master 20 and came up with the following: http://www.modelrectifier.com/resources/trainsound/AA444.pdf
Is this what you need?
Regards
I'm really confused with the CM 20.
How do you go from the main power pack to a phone jack? There are only 2 wires coming off the power pack. How do you conect 4 wires to the phone jsck? Where do the other 2 wires come from?
waljua I'm really confused with the CM 20. How do you go from the main power pack to a phone jack? There are only 2 wires coming off the power pack. How do you conect 4 wires to the phone jsck? Where do the other 2 wires come from?
Was not the instruction link I posted above helpful? It appears that there is a modular jack on the control box that accepts a coiled cord that goes either to the handheld or to the small additional panels.
Also, the instructions show a 6-position modular line cord, and only 4 of the positions are used. I know you said something about using a 4-position plug, but I would be concerned that there would be a size difference between the two plugs and the 4-position might not fit into the socket correctly.
RJ-11 is a 4p4c plug/jack and RJ-12 is 6p/6c but they are the same size.If the plugs have 6 positions you use the middle 4.
The control electronics are inthe base and vary the coltage ont he two track conenction screws, but control comes via the handset which is low power, just the control signals for the base pass through the phone cord.
The trick is, with phone cords the wires flip - pin 1 ggoes to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2, and 4 to 1. A splitter to run multiple lines off of one may reverse it AGAIN - so you need to knwo which way the system requires it and keep it straight - if it needs straight through cables you'll probably have to crimp your own. Or really just use the jacks with screw termiansl and some 4 conductor wire.
Use a standard modular cord the flat type that goes from a jack to a telephone set an 18 in or 7 foot would be fine . Plug one end int the CM20 at the other end cut of the modular plug.Strip 4 inches of the jacket sheath off strip 1 inch of insulation from the 4 wires . You have to look at the drawing from MRC .Use a marker to mark the edge along the length of the cord on the side that lines up with pin 2 black . Now wire all 4 of those in order blk pin 2 red pin 3 grn pin 4 yel pin 5 you may want to tin these ends with solder or use spade tips. The base of the block may be marked B R G Y you can use that to help keep you straight The jack cover will have short spade tip colored B R G Y wire put those on the same color screws . Instead of using more cords and splitters use some standard 4 conductor telephone wire to extend to other jacks wiring the color to match . You should be able to now plug your coil cord for the HH control and use it. The most important thing is to be sure the cord you cut is flat and the wire are correct in relation to the diagram from MRC.
rrinker "...control comes via the handset which is low power, just the control signals for the base pass through --Randy
"...control comes via the handset which is low power, just the control signals for the base pass through
This is of some interest for our club. I doubt frankly if the control handset is 'low power'. There is nothing at all in the manual (see pdf link elsewhere in thread) to support this assumption. On the contrary, the manual very clearly warns, "Do not exceed 40 feet for the handset cable....", or malfunction will result.
Most solid state throttle circuits I have seen (and some I have home-brewed) have one side of the dc power bus passing through the handset control - other than SCR circuits. This means that considerable current is passing through those little #24 wires.
Even if it is not the full dc power, the current is sufficient to cause enough voltage drop in the #24 wires in the telephone cable to cause a 'malfunction'.
This means, for our club, which will use a walkaround setup with CM20's at distances exceeding 40 feet, some larger 4-conductor cable will be necessary.
Another hiccup in this walkaround scheme is the following: If you have more than a single track, each with its own CM20 for power, you may be tempted to install little panels with more than one phone jack at each location. Bad idea.
Even with careful color coding of each jack and matching handset, visitors WILL eventually plug the Red plug into the Blue jack. Presto: Fried system. Again, don't ask how I know this.
On our club layout, we have three loops of track. We are now researching three different plug and jack systems:
1) Modular phone plugs; 2) DIN plugs; 3) - something else, as yet undetermined.
This way, no plugs can be inserted into the wrong jack.
A ND we will be using a little larger wire than the telephone cable.
Good luck -
Dick Chaffer, Bozeman, MT
We had a CM20 as well as one of the other similar different brand units at the club I used to belong to. We had WAY more than 40 feet of wire from the CM20 base to the furthest plugin. The full track power absolutely positively does NOT go through the CM20 handheld. It can;t possibly, phone wire, even a 20 foot length of it, cannot support the maximum current capacity of the CM20 output. The main power transistors are in the base unit, the handheld only feeds the control signals. Reversing is via relay, you can ehar it click when you flip the direction switch on the handheld. Since the momentum and brake buttons are on the handheld, I would guess the handheld holds the capacitor used for this. The 4 wires then match up with most other circuit designs for a walkaround throttle.
I really doubt the 5 amp track current is passing through the HH controller and as stated you can hear the relay click when you reverse the HH controller.
I have also been concerned about adding a second throttle of a different manufacturer. I have concerned about plugging a the wrong throttle into the wrong base. The only good solution is to use a different type of jack and socket that won`t fit there are plenty of choices so that you can do just that. As far as the 40 foot limit if I exceed that I would definitely use larger gauge wire if that limit is exceeded..On a home layout maybe not as likely but you still need to be aware of the limit.
You are right, MRC removed the CM 20 from their site. I had questions about the CM20 as well and Frank at MRC was extremely helpful with answering them.. I suggest giving them a call or sending an email. He responded to me the next day.
I've been using two Control Master 20s since 1993(?) when they cost a mere $100 a piece and have had no problem with either of them. Setting up a remote jack is actually quite simple as long as you get the four wires in the correct order in every telephone/RJ11 jack. Make sure you use a proper crimping tool since the jack itself will crimp down on all four wires at the same time.
The one CM20 I use has three remote stations and the other CM20 has two. I also use several of the New Rail universal throttle packet. They hold the hand-held controllers safely and securely on the fascia.
My setup has served me well and I am refusing to be dragged kicking and screaming into DCC since I do not see the need for it on my layout. However, I am actively looking at upgrading to some kind of sound only control system in the near future for a few of my locos. I just refuse to give up my reliable Control Master 20s.
i hope this will help you its like setting up extension lines on a phone you purchase a telephone splitter that will split three or four extention lines off of a phone line then you plug your cm20 to the splitter and plug how ever many lines out of the splitter to the locations you want i think this is the way i had mine set up about ten or fifteen years ago then i went to dcc now i am going back to dc because i am starting over with n scale i hope this helps steve
shusted333i hope this will help you its like setting up extension lines on a phone you purchase a telephone splitter that will split three or four extention lines off of a phone line then you plug your cm20 to the splitter and plug how ever many lines out of the splitter to the locations you want
That may work. However, it could cause an interference issue. I know with DCC wired walkaround systems, the architecture of the network can at times cause issues, usually when it a matter of everything not being in series, but wired as a "tree." Usually, you can get away with a T coming off the controller, though, and then go both ways from there. Note I'm not saying the MRC CM 20 network protocol is the same as the DCC one, just that some behaviors may be similar.
There's a reason to know about T-ing things. That can put the CM 20 in the middle of the control circuit. On a large layout, that can help with the 40 feet limit, as you can go 40 feet either way, instead of hooking up at one end and going 80 feet.
I see where someone mentioned they didn't encounter problems with the control circuit being longer than 40 feet. My experience is that it will be an issue in some cases. With my original system, I could not go longer, as I could not acquire control.
This also brings up another point not mentioned. There are two different versions of the CM 20. The original used a fan for cooling. The later version used heat sinks only, so is quieter in operation. NOTE! The hand controllers for each version are incompatible with each other and can't be mixed. I never did test the newer version I acquired to see if the 40 foot limit applied like it did with the original. It's possible they solved the 40 foot issue, but never updated the product lit to reflect that. It would explain why this works for some and not for others, though.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
OK,,I'll bite to the 2yr,old thread,,,,,I have three MRC 20s,the newer ones and Mike you are right,the newer ones don't have that problem with distance,,in fact you can plug one hand held in either of the units,with no issues..
Cheers,
Frank
Frank,
Thanks for confirming my supposition about the newer units' capability to support longer control system lengths. That will aid others buying used ones, as the old ones won't be as useful for those with large layouts. There probably is still some limit to control circuit length with the newer version, though, so testing that before too big a commitment and you find yourself coming up short might be a good idea. Anyone know?
As for the handheld controllers, if all you have are the new version CM20s, yes, all the handhelds can be intermixed with other units. Same with the old handhelds and units. You just can't mix the handhelds between different versions. But keep in mind that this isn't DCC. The controllers and wallplate jacks they plug into need to be clearly marked, because when two or more people are operating at the same time the possibility exists that the other guy could plug into the cab of the other operator and unwittingly take control of the wrong train.
BTW, a tip for those installing the control system. If you do have just two CM20s to support, there are phone wallplates that come with 2 jacks in them. This makes for a neater, more compact appearance when mounted on the fascia than putting two separate wall plates with a single jack each side by side. You do have to look a little harder for the 2 jack ones, but worth it. It's possible that wallplates with more than 2 jacks are available, which would rock for those with more than 2 CM20s to support. Anyone know?
Mike,
I will try to make this simple,,,,,I have three MRC 20s,a double track main line,,three separate control panels,,that have rotory switches instead of toggles,A,B,C,SO ALL I need is one jack,the switches control the use of the hand helds,no matter where they are plugged into any jack..It has 40 blocks,and a track diagram on each panel.. I am patiently awaiting my new camera,,to show a lot of things that I have been talking about....I'm having fun running it this way,because,part of my double track mainline isn't completed yet,so east bound has to share west bound,from crossovers,,,all the turnouts have indicator lights on them so that helps a real lot..
That's a great idea for those needing to accommodate more than 2 cabs. I'm sure those pics will be helpful to those setting up a control system for multiple CN20s.
All I know is it works fine,,,,,,,either one person can control three cabs,at once or three people..The Idea behind it was to have two mainline trains running in each direction,while switching,on both sides of each main,,,easily done with DCC,but a lot more wiring needed for DC,,,,ONE of the reasons I will not switch,after all that wiring .,at 70 IT WON'T happen in my life time...