Most decoders come with CV 2,5 and 6 (start, top and middle speed settings) at zero - essentially turned off. That means at full throttle in DCC the engine should be running at it's top possible speed. Entering a number in CV 5 won't make it run faster, but could be used to slow it down.
The Proto E-units were designed when modellers measured quality to a large extent on how smoothly an engine could run at slow speed, since there were many early model engines which could achieve slot-car type speeds at full throttle. Back then running at "scale speed" meant slowing things down so trains weren't racing around the layout. Re-gear and re-motoring kits were offered to allow you to slow down models from Athearn and other makers.
FWIW if you're using "broad" (30-36" radius) HO curves, keep in mind on a real railroad mainline a curve that sharp would require trains to slow down to 15-20 MPH to go thru the curve. To run 60 MPH would require the equivalent of a several hundred inch radius curve in HO.
If your throttle response and speed step settings are capable of delivering all the voltage your system delivers to the tracks at max throttle, then your maximum speed is all you're going to get out of that model with that gearing. IOW, at some point your wide open throttle should be signalling the decoder to let 'er rip. So what you see is what you get if your system is providing something like 16-17 volts to the rails and you have assigned your maximum throttle setting to the decoder. The rest is gearing or eventual self-destruction.
-Crandell
I have an old Athearn bluebox F7 that I'm pretty sure could go 100, I'll swap you even up !!
"The rest is gearing or eventual self-destruction."
Words for the wise. Didn't know the corollary of proto speed to what we consider a broad radius.
Railcon44Just bought the Proto 2000 E7A With the Q1a sound decoder. I'm not happy with the top end speed. Witch cv values do i use to get better top end speed? i have tested the speed and the best it will do is 60 smph, I want more. Railcon44
Two questions:
1) Is the output voltage of your booster adjustable?
2) Is it set too low?
Speed is controlled by average voltage which is proportional to duty cycle of the pulses to the motor. Once duty cycle reaches 100% that's all there is unless you can make the pulses taller. I don't know if the decoder limits the upper voltage level but doubt it.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
Railcon44Just bought the Proto 2000 E7A With the Q1a sound decoder. I'm not happy with the top end speed. Witch cv values do i use to get better top end speed? i have tested the speed and the best it will do is 60 smph, I want more.
Just my opinion, but I think the most important thing in making the trains look realistic isn't so much running at exactly prototype speed as it is keeping the right ratio between different types of trains. That is, if you're modelling a mainline where let's say passenger trains can go 79 MPH and freights are limited to 50 MPH, you'd get a similar effect by running your passenger trains at 50 and your freights at 30. The passenger trains would still seem fast because they're going a lot faster than the freights on the layout.
Hmmm. This is has perked up my curiosity. I have 11 Proto 2000 E-units that were manufactured in the 90s and early 2000s. Two of them are DCC equipped but can still run at about 75 scale mph. Anyone know what the gear ratios are on these older E-units?
I recently won a P2K RF&P E8 on Ebay, new in the box. I'm considering a QSI Revolution for it with the M5 horn.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Hi,Texas Zepher-which speedometer did you use?
Well i want to thank everyone for all help on my E7A speed problem. I have decided to leave well enough only and just enjoy the way they are.
Thanks to all
Railcon44
AntonioFP45 Hmmm. This is has perked up my curiosity. I have 11 Proto 2000 E-units that were manufactured in the 90s and early 2000s. Two of them are DCC equipped but can still run at about 75 scale mph. Anyone know what the gear ratios are on these older E-units? I recently won a P2K RF&P E8 on Ebay, new in the box. I'm considering a QSI Revolution for it with the M5 horn.
All Life Like production E units have faster gearing than the newest releases from Walthers. I too have a number of older ones and run them on DC, that is limited to 13.5 no load volts, and they travel a perfect scale 88 mph at a load voltage of 13.35 volts.
This has been discussed on here before and the new Walthers units are slower.
The older units have excelent slow speed as well so I do not undrstand why they changed them, BUT, those who have tested the DC versions of the new model do not seem to have the same/as much of a low top speed complaint as those with the DCC/sound versions. So there is some limiting effect in the decoder as well.
Contrary to the assumptions of other posters here, the orginal Life Like versions where carefully engineered for both slow speed performance AND correct top speeds on typical 12 volt DC control systems.
And, while most all of us have selectively compressed curves, some have curves that are more compressed than others. 60 or 70 smph passenger trains look good on my 48" radius, and we slow down to 50 smph for the 36" radius ones.
Sheldon
winnetouHi,Texas Zepher-which speedometer did you use?
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/reviewpost/showproduct.php/product/86/cat/13
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe older units have excelent slow speed as well so I do not undrstand why they changed them,
Yeah, I know; throw the prototype operations in the trash. Real railroads always had issues matching units and their gear ratios - why shouldn't modelers? In my opinion, it is stupid to expect a passenger hauling high stepping thoroughbred E unit to run well lashed up with a Baldwin draft-horse lugger. Pitty they don't give more weight to "most protopical" model railroaders.
I actually think the real reason for this is that they don't have to continually re-design the power part of the trucks. All the shaft and idler gears come from one mold. There are reduced engineering costs and so the units are cheaper to produce in the long run.
Tex, Altantic,
Thanks for that info guys. Now it makes sense, yet it's too bad that Walthers management felt it had to take the "one gear setting fits all" approach that Athearn did with their Blue Boxes back in the day; although in this case the gearing is towards the low end instead of the ultra high.
I very much like how smoothly the older P2K E-units run, DC and DCC, and enjoy their ability to run like their prototype racehorse counterparts did. Life-Like was on target.
The new Walthers E-units are very attractive, with detailing that's even more precise than the older P2K versions, however, the top end speed is definetly an issue for me. Am I being unreasonable for expecting 75 scale mph? Even after the imposition of the 79mph speed limit, ACL hotshot passenger trains "unofficially" hit 85-90mph on some stretches if they were running late.
Fantasizing: I'd love to be able to obtain some of the new Walthers E-unit shells and slap them on my older P2K E-unit chassis. Now that would be a winning combo!
Texas ZepherWhen they did it, I asked them why. I think it is stuipid but I know why. They told me they standardized on a single gear ratio. This was supposedly so we modelers could easily consist all locomotives together. Take two Proto-2000 locos out of the box, set them on the track together, and they would run the same speed. Apparently "most" model railroaders want this.
Life-Like had started on a Gear-Ratio-of-the-Month program. The SD60s were 18:1, GPs were mostly 12:1 (Athearn style trucks), SD45s were 9:1, switchers were something else, GEs were maybe 6:1, etc. Hard to run things together. Some roads would hook together anything that ran.
Baldwins usually wouldn't MU to anything but other Baldwins, as they used air-operated throttles. But even with different gear ratios, things would start and run together, until you got to the top speed of one of the engines. Might get a little kick in the pants from the ones that load up quicker, but no excess spinning or dragging around. Kind of like a man and a boy pulling a cart. Each moves at its own speed, but they work together to pull the cart.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com