batterymule7 wrote:You know Chuck you are right in your earlier post about modellers doing what I call the bear minimum to model mines on their layouts. Sure you get a few who actually know what to do but I think that it is sad that there is so much that can be done with mining scenes on layouts and so few take advantage. Sure the tipple and loadout are the important parts but look at all the detail one can go into by modelling the shaft collar and it's associated areas, or the portal running into the mountain, with steel or timber sets protuding and trolley wire, and pipe racks and car shops for mine cars and lokies and the like. The way I see it is that everybody models tipples and loaders, the elite really take the time to make the mine a mine and not just some funky building growing out of a hillside.
You forgot the inquisitive, mischievous kids snooping around. (Model railroaders in the making.)
This could probably also be said for other industries. That's why I liked the MR series on specific industries so well. The more information you have about whatever it is that you're modeling, the better your model of it will be.
Chuck
ChuckAllen, TX
chestnutridge wrote:Chuck, having limited experience (2 yrs) in prep plants but seeing first hand I will guestimate at 3 to 1 ratios. This all depends on how the coal is mined at the face underground. For example: If the coal seam is 5' hight there would be about 20 percent garbage since a roof height of 6 to 7' would be attained. ... If the coal seam is lower like what is found in North Central PA (around 3') then your ratio of coal to slate would be closer in number. When I built my coal mine for my layout I installed a bin loader for slate that is rail served. I used the Walthers kit and have 3 tracks for coal loads as per the prep plant footprint and a 4th track that goes behind the plant with a bin loader for slate. .
From this, I'm understanding that a mine working a 5' seam would produce 3 carloads of clean coal and 1 of slate and assorted other junk. I'm concerned about an operation like Clinchfield's cleaning plant at Moss, VA which, interestingly enough, had no mine; all of its raw coal input arrived by rail and its clean coal (and "tailings") output went out by rail. I guess I'm also trying to take into account the difference in the sizes of raw versus clean coal. I've seen some pretty big chunks of coal come out of a mine and I wouldn't think they would utilize the cubic capacity of a hopper as well as the much smaller and uniform pieces after that same coal had been "cleaned".
Based on your information though, I think we can definitely say "it depends".
Thanks,
Chestnutridge,
I am an underground hard rock miner from Nevada. I curious what kind of underground rail equipment you have encountered or operated over the years. I have been a huge fan of the large four axle trolley motors but man are they hard to find info or pictures on. In our mine we use truck and loader for haulage which is boring. We were going to go rail for our redevelopment but BLM shut that down in a big hurry, seeing as we were going to rehab a mine that was over 50 years old and in Nevada, those are considered historical resources. It is nice to see a fellow miner on here on my first visit.
Stay safe.
Erik
batterymule7
I'm gonna take you up on your offer of detailed information about coal mining. This may be a wierd question but:
If a coal preparation plant depends solely on rail for delivery of raw coal and hauling the clean coal away, what would be a typical ratio of car loads in and out (assuming all cars have the same capacity)? In other words, does raw coal (including the shale and assorted other junk) require more or less cars than the clean coal?
BTW, chestnutridge, your screen name and your location tell me that you and I are from the same neck of the woods. I grew up within sight of Lock #4 on the Monongahela River.
Facinating thread - thanks for some interesting reading guys. My layout plan has two "company" mines (one with vertical shaft and hoist house and one will be a drift mine), and an indepently owned tipple with a truck dump. Thanks for the info on the types of structures, etc., I should plan for. Most modelers only model a tipple and sometimes not even a shaft structure.
Grand River & Monongah Railroad and subsidiary Monongah Railway
Story of everyone's life. If there's enough money, there's not enough room; if there's not enough money, we have plenty of room. Most of the time it's both. What do you use for motive power? r/c or crewed?
work safe
Good Morning: Just a little more to add to your most informative post. Captive railroads are owned by a company such as a mining operation.
You probably remember (or maybe even worked at) captive mines. In this part of WV, US Steel way a big player not all that long ago. Most everything that they had is long gone.
Does your mine flood load?
chuck, at our mine which employs over 500 union employees our surface facilities are the following. a supply yard with 2, 44" guage tracks, empties and loads. our supplies are "dropped" down a slope attached to a slope car. there is a maintenace shop building for repair mine cars and mine locomotives. there is an adjacent vehicle maintenance shop for pickup trucks, forklifts, etc. a hoist house where the hoist operator "drops" the hoist car into the mine on what looks like a big reel with 2" cable.
the prep plant has the main coal prep building which is 110' tall, a maintenance shop, numerous conveyor belts which run from the mine, to the prep plant and then either to the train loadout or to the slate dump. there are also office buildings at both sites for management personnel, 3 sided buildings for storing electric motors and load centers and a centrally located warehouse for underground supplies. at our mine we have a captive railroad that runs from the prep plant to the river so we have a clean coal silo for the train to load from, 2 raw coal silos for storing coal from the mine in case the prep plant is down for repairs and a raw coal stacker for additional storage. there are numerous ponds where water is pumped from underground, treated and used in the coal cleaning process plus a thickener where waste water from the prep plant is pumped, the solids removed and then the water is used again in the plant. there is also 1 silo at the plant which stores magnetite for cleaning the coal. there are also numerous small buildings scattered about such a a grease shanty where bulk oil for the mine is stored, a hazmat shed for oil spill supplys, pump houses for the ponds etc. i can't think of much more but will be glad to answer any more questions you have.
Thank you for the kind offer.
Back in 1960 or so I "minefanned" the surface workings of several underground mines in Japan. Without exception, they had a number of workshops (ranging from little sheds to substantial buildings, depending on the size and economic strength of the mining company) and other buildings around the minehead and preparation plant. What sort of equivalent structures were/are common in U.S. mining practice?
Chuck (modeling a Japanese coal hauler, circa 1964)