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Ask MR? Maybe not.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 5:38 PM

dehusman

Ask MR was particularly sketchy in the May issue.

Dave, you are a pretty knowledgeable guy on this type of issue (i.e., operations). This is troublesome to learn that the Ask MR column in the May issue is littered with errors. Do you plan to contact the editor of MR magazine about this?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 4:33 PM

dehusman
My take is they are trying to make the answers less technical to make them more "accessible" and less intimidating to those who are asking the questions.

I would think most people that ask a question just want to know what time it is and really don't care how to build a clock.

-Kevin

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:17 PM

one of the best answers in the world is "I don't know"; saves a lot of time

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:25 PM

SeeYou190
they are above the top of the rail. Perhaps the plows mounted to locomotives, but the some of the big plows pushed by several locomotives did have pieces that could be raised an lowered. -Kevin

There is a difference between nitpicking a detail and being flat out wrong.

On several of the points I mentioned they were flat out wrong.

Dave Husman

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:18 PM

dknelson
I have noticed that MR has been getting casual about researching the answers to Ask MR questions. I suspect the staff is spread too thin to hit the books much before penning an answer.

 

My take is they are trying to make the answers less technical to make them more "accessible" and less intimidating to those who are asking the questions.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:40 AM

dehusman

Ask MR was particularly sketchy in the May issue.

...  No cigars for May's Ask MR column. 

I have noticed that MR has been getting casual about researching the answers to Ask MR questions.  I suspect the staff is spread too thin to hit the books much before penning an answer.

A fairly recent thread that I took part in also beefed about an Ask MR response.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/281564.aspx

Dave Nelson

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:12 AM

Interesting insights! 

I do notice that the ask MR colunm periodically leaves somethings to be desired with regards to lack of information, but the authors are only human and we should expect periodic mistakes!

I kind of don't understand the precticality of writing a letter to Ask MR these days when you could simple post a question on these forums and get a quicker response with a wider bredth of infomation. I also think friends in the hobby could also offer more detailed advice! I've learned quite a bit about prototype railroading from prototype railroader friends who are also in the hobby.

One example I can think of Ask MR getting something wrong (actually I'd say incomplete) was a few years ago when they talked about slide fences and said they where there to stop rocks, when actually they simply trip an electrical circuit when a rock breaks a fence to allert oncoming trains of rocks on the track. This was one of the questions at the start of the collum that are in more detail and bolder too!

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 10:10 AM

dehusman
In the question about the lineside signs, ASK MR said they were signs to tell the crews when to "raise the blade of the plow". Railroad plow blades don't raise because they are above the top of the rail.

Perhaps the plows mounted to locomotives, but the some of the big plows pushed by several locomotives did have pieces that could be raised an lowered.

-Kevin

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Posted by cv_acr on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 10:07 AM

dehusman

Quite correct, the operative word being "operators".  I think part of the confusion is model railroaders tend to lump all the clerical crafts together (much like they lump the whole train crew together) and don't really understand what the different crafts actually do. 

Plus, in some rural locations there really was only one person fulfilling the role of agent/operator.

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Posted by cv_acr on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:58 AM

dehusman

In the question about the lineside signs, ASK MR said they were signs to tell the crews when to "raise the blade of the plow".  Railroad plow blades don't raise because they are above the top of the rail.  What the signs are really for is for flangers, they are pieces of equipment that dig the snow and ice out of the flangeways, below the top of the rail.  They do have to be raised prior to switches and crossings. 

Some plows did in fact have a moveable bottom part on the blade that could drop between the rails. Most Canadian plows did.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:26 AM

dehusman

 

 
BRAKIE
Tower operatrs could and some times would hand you Form 19 giving you new intructions.

 

Quite correct, the operative word being "operators".  I think part of the confusion is model railroaders tend to lump all the clerical crafts together (much like they lump the whole train crew together) and don't really understand what the different crafts actually do.

Dave Husman

 

I agree. I heard the fireman's seat in a F-7 called the conductor's seat. The conductor rode in the caboose with the flagman or rear brakeman. 

If a local was more then 30 cars then a extra brakeman would be added to help do the work and that would make a six man crew instead of the normal five. This was  on the PRR. On the Chessie we used a four man crew. Engineer,two brakeman and the conductor or foreman as he was called on some roads. The head brakeman rode in the fireman's seat and would repeat the signals when the engineer called them out.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 8:07 AM

BRAKIE
Tower operatrs could and some times would hand you Form 19 giving you new intructions.

Quite correct, the operative word being "operators".  I think part of the confusion is model railroaders tend to lump all the clerical crafts together (much like they lump the whole train crew together) and don't really understand what the different crafts actually do.

Dave Husman

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 4:57 AM

dehusman
The dispatcher issuses the train orders and they are written down and delivered by train order operators, who may or may not be agents. The two places I worked with agents, they had no interaction with the train orders, it was done by the train order operator.

Tower operatrs could and some times  would hand you Form 19  giving you new intructions. 

July 15, 1967

TO: C&E 

Extra 7112 W at Mounds

Do not exceed 10 (one aught) mph on main two (2) between MP 344.0 and MP 345.0 account bad rail.

JEH.

Mounds.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 8:23 PM

Interesting observations, Dave. Thumbs UpThumbs Up

 
While I no longer receive the model magazines - MR, RMC, Mainline Modeler (and Trains) that I did at one time, they usually offered some good insight into real railroads for those of us who knew little about how things really worked in the full-size world of railroading.

Some years ago, I did a mostly-photo thread, with some narrative, on an Extra being detoured due to a derailment on its usual line, with rights over all regularly-scheduled trains on a line that wasn't usually all that busy.
I'm glad to see that I wasn't in error by giving it rights to the needed track, although I did forget to add the white flags to the lead loco. Bang HeadLaugh

I called the thread "Hurry up and wait..."

Wayne

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Ask MR? Maybe not.
Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 6:50 PM

Ask MR was particularly sketchy in the May issue.

In the question about the lineside signs, ASK MR said they were signs to tell the crews when to "raise the blade of the plow".  Railroad plow blades don't raise because they are above the top of the rail.  What the signs are really for is for flangers, they are pieces of equipment that dig the snow and ice out of the flangeways, below the top of the rail.  They do have to be raised prior to switches and crossings. 

On the white flags question, they never actually mentioned the actual name of the flags, classification signals.  A minor quibble about who sees them.  Station agents are the business managers for the railroad, many of them at smaller stations were train order operators, but many of them at medium or larger stations didn't really have anything to do with the movement of trains per se.  What MR really meant to say instead of station agents was "train order operators", they are actually the craft that keeps track of trains and their movement.  Dispatchers also rarely see trains, they are at one location and may not even be near the tracks, even back in the 1800's.  Train crews, both opposing and in the same direction and MoW forces are the ones looking for the flags.

TT&TO operation doesn't require everybody to know where every train is on the system.  All they need to know is the schedule and extras need to know where they are going to meet opposing extras or what rights they have over other trains.  They might not have a clue where the train actually is and aren't required to track other trains.  Also considering a railroad might have hundreds of trains on a system, train orders generally only deal with one subdivision.

Extras do NOT have "schedules" created by train orders. Extras do NOT have schedules.  That is kinda the definition of an extra.  Schedules grant trains specific superiority, called "class" and "direction".  Extras NEVER have any superiority by class or direction.  Basic, fundamental, foundational principle of TT&TO operation.  The dispatcher issuses the train orders and they are written down and delivered by train order operators, who may or may not be agents.  The two places I worked with agents, they had no interaction with the train orders, it was done by the train order operator.

Train orders are not issued to every opposing train they are going to meet.  No train orders are required for scheduled regular trains, the times in timetable sets the meets.  The only time a regular train will have an order about an extra is if the extra has been given right over it.  Every extra has to have something on every opposing extra. Not every extra has a specific meet location with opposing extras.

No cigars for May's Ask MR column.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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