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Professional Locomotive Kitbashing Services

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 6:05 PM

So how is the speed of the slug/MATE controlled?

Steve

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 6:05 PM

Bundy74
 
cascadenorthernrr

So they do not have throttles?

 

 

 

No they do not.  Throttles are for engines which slugs do not have.

 

Except these http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/700.html

The slugs in your pictures do not have throttles.

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Posted by Bundy74 on Monday, February 27, 2017 6:02 PM

cascadenorthernrr

So they do not have throttles?

 

No they do not.  Throttles are for engines which slugs do not have.

Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 6:01 PM

So they do not have throttles?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:58 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Well what I meant was could a slug be operated by a cab that isn't the next unit over? Let me rephrase the question could a MATE be MU'ed. 

 

Did you look at this?  http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/700.html

The road slug or MATE (which is a term for a specific brand of slug) has no MU capability.  It likely would have pass through capability for the MU communication between locomotives.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:50 PM

4) MATE/Slug to add tractive effort to diesel locomotive consist when needed.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by Bundy74 on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:37 PM

You could build anything you want.  The question is what problem are you trying to solve, and what loco solution is appropriate.

1) A slug is for high-horsepower locos used in low speed situations (i.e. hump yards, locals)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slug_(railroad)

2) A MATE is for high horsepower locos used on lighter track (GE U36B)

3) A B-Unit is when you need a dedicated trailing unit for extra horsepower on a train.  Having one today is not really practical from the manufacturer since the added engineering cost of a B unit versus a cab is not profitable versus lack of flexibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_unit

Understanding what the situation is helps to define what locos you need.

 

Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:33 PM

Well what I meant was could a slug be operated by a cab that isn't the next unit over? Let me rephrase the question could a MATE be MU'ed. 

Steve

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:32 PM

Bundy74
As an alternative you may want to look at the GE MATE, which is the only factory built slug. A MATE is single or double ended. Instead of siphoning off excess electricity below a certain speed, a MATE turns a a single 4 axle loco into an 8 axle, or 2 4 axle locos into 2 6 axles. There was an article in MR in 1988 or so on making one.

All a MATE is a slug that is wired into a mother unit, still needs the specially modified mother unit(s), that can operate at multiple speeds instead of cutting out.  I believe Pan Am (B&M) GP40-Slug-GP40 set up is a home brewed version of this.

 

 

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Posted by dehusman on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:30 PM

cascadenorthernrr

So even with modifications the slug cannot be operated with MU?

 

 
Don't understand the question.
 
The slug draws its power from the mother unit.  It cannot operate without a specially equipped unit.  It probably has MU thru it so another unit can be MU'd through the slug.
 
MU is a control system, not a power system.  Just like in DCC there is a command bus (control) and track bus (power).

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:24 PM

So I could build a SD70MATE?

Steve

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Posted by Bundy74 on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:22 PM

A slug doesn't really work that way.  It just siphons off excess power from it's mother unit under a certain speed for more traction.  Multiple Unit implies you are controlling multiple locomotives from 1 throttle.  A slug doesnt have a throttle.

As an alternative you may want to look at the GE MATE, which is the only factory built slug.  A MATE is single or double ended.  Instead of siphoning off excess electricity below a certain speed, a MATE turns a a single 4 axle loco into an 8 axle, or 2 4 axle locos into 2 6 axles.  There was an article in MR in 1988 or so on making one.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoList.aspx?mid=188

Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:17 PM

So even with modifications the slug cannot be operated with MU?

Steve

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:12 PM

cascadenorthernrr
Well to my understanding the road slug acts as a parasite off the other units in the consist; meaning it uses the the prime mover and generator from the next unit over but can be MU'ed like any other unit.

It is mated with a specially equipped mother unit or units in all cases.  Norfolk Southern has built some with Cabs (using old GP38s). 

http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/700.html

The generators in the mother unit(s) supply one or both of the truck mounted traction motors, depending on how the individual unit is equipped.  It cannot be connected to a factory supplied cab equipped locomotive, unless it was ordered that way, I dont think EMD/GE are in the slug business anymore, just like they are not in the non-cab equipped booster business.   

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:06 PM

The Norfolk Southern Road slugs give me an idea.  They have cabs on them, and look like a regular locomotive, but have no prime mover in them.  So what you can do here is SD70Ace-SD70B-RC70-RC70-SD70B-SD70Ace.

The beauty of this is you dont really need to do anything to the road slugs, just renumber them/replace the SD70Ace with your remote cab equipped slug option. 

That leaves just two less extensive RTR-bash projects the cabless boosters. 

Another quick thought:  An SD70Ace is 75 scale feet long, or just about 10.3" in length.  6 units would yield an impressive 62" (ish) long locomotive consist.   

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 4:42 PM

maxman
 
cascadenorthernrr
It would be two A-units, two B-units, and Two C-units or A-B-C-C-B-A lashup; A-units are the cabbed units, B-units are the cabless units, and lastly C-units are the road slugs.

 

I am confused by this consist.  Seems to me that a road slug needs to be mated with a unit with a cab since it needs its operating instructions from someplace.  And I think it would be unlikely to be mated with a B unit.

So maybe your consist might be A-C-B-B-C-A.

 

I agree, road slugs are normally paired with a Cab equipped unit.  The reason for this is that they cannot move on their own power, and have no controls onboard. 

Edit:  There are Cab equiped road slugs, owned by NS.  http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/700.html

Cabless boosters may or may not have hostler controls on board.  I have no data on this.  In the days of covered wagon B units, most that I have heard of did.  Those that did not where ones that were permanently connected with drawbar.  Slugs may or may not be equipped for MU operation with other locomotives, however DPU equipment in the other cab equipped unit.   

Also from a practical modeling standpoint, are you planning on powering those road slugs?  If so where would you put the motor?  Are you planning on DC or DCC operation?  Do you have the capability of removing metal on the locomotive chasis to reduce the hood height? 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 4:30 PM

Well to my understanding the road slug acts as a parasite off the other units in the consist; meaning it uses the the prime mover and generator from the next unit over but can be MU'ed like any other unit. But if I'm wrong please correct me.

Steve

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Posted by maxman on Monday, February 27, 2017 3:36 PM

cascadenorthernrr
It would be two A-units, two B-units, and Two C-units or A-B-C-C-B-A lashup; A-units are the cabbed units, B-units are the cabless units, and lastly C-units are the road slugs.

I am confused by this consist.  Seems to me that a road slug needs to be mated with a unit with a cab since it needs its operating instructions from someplace.  And I think it would be unlikely to be mated with a B unit.

So maybe your consist might be A-C-B-B-C-A.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 1:26 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Like this.

Image result for emd sd70ce rear end

Also this is a prime example of a damaged unit that could be converted into a booster unit.

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=216854

It could have been, but was rebuilt and renumbered.  Why?  Probably rebuilt because its build date was prior to Tier 4 emissions requirements, if you bought new it would have to be Tier 4, if you rebuild it does not have to meet those requirements.  Or it could be that railroads already replace cabs on locomotives.  These things happen a lot more often than you might think. 

Still an interesting project.  If you google BNSF 9159, the third result down is the NTSB RAR (railroad accident report).  This will give you an idea of what happened, including wreck photos and the description of the accident. 

Here is the link to the RAR:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR1202.pdf

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:56 AM

That's one **** of a locomotive power lashup! 

Are all the units road units?  What kind of freight cars would they be pulling?  How long would the train be?

 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:42 AM

I'm not sure, I was basing it off CN's 8100 series. That's mainly because I'm going to use Athearns SD70ACe CN EMD Ex-Demo/Lease Blue Livery.

Steve

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:41 AM

It would be two A-units, two B-units, and Two C-units or A-B-C-C-B-A lashup; A-units are the cabbed units, B-units are the cabless units, and lastly C-units are the road slugs.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:38 AM

If the Aces are numbered in the 8000s, what's below them?

Post some photos when the project's done. I'd love to see them!

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:30 AM

Well I think eight might be pushing it a little, maybe six.

Steve

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:27 AM

cascadenorthernrr,

SD70ACes cut down as B-units,

WOW! 8 locomotives with the middle ones B-units or slugs and two driving cabs at either end...

My my, you like to fantasize a lot!    Laugh

This whole idea is funny yet somehow interesting at the same time.

What will you come up with next? LOL

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:18 AM

I wouldn't mind at least one or two kit bashed locomotives in my roster, like a Santa Fe SF30C or a BN Triclops SD60. 

It would likely be a model a manufacturer has not done yet.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:04 AM

mlehman
 

The point on checking the Cannon catalog for parts is well taken. If you just used plain ol' styrene to hack together something, it's going to suffer by comparison to the rest of the unit. On the other hand, buying parts can run up the cost, too, which is why I was a skeptic about Rich's playing devil's advocate on cost at only $50. It's real easy these days to throw that much in parts alone at a loco, no matter who does the labor.

It was less about playing devil's advocate than it was about estimating the sheer cost of such a project. I used a lowball figure of $50 per loco as a professional kitbashing fee to make the point that it would cost at least $800 to buy and kitbash 8 locos. Since the fee of a professional kitbasher would arguably be a lot more than $50 per loco, the total cost of this project would likely be north of $1,000.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, February 26, 2017 11:42 PM

cascadenorthernrr
Also this is a prime example of a damaged unit that could be converted into a booster unit.

Yes, the RRs that did this often ordered the sheet metal from the mfg to duplicate the end as located on the opposite end of the unit. Easy to do and assemble with the equipment at most RR shops.

The point on checking the Cannon catalog for parts is well taken. If you just used plain ol' styrene to hack together something, it's going to suffer by comparison to the rest of the unit. On the other hand, buying parts can run up the cost, too, which is why I was a skeptic about Rich's playing devil's advocateWinkDevil on cost at only $50. It's real easy these days to throw that much in parts alone at a loco, no matter who does the labor.

I didn't want to discourage you in bringing up considering doing it yourself. It's easy to feel like you're hitting a brick wall if you have big expectations and limited funds and then just give up. Better to consider how much time and money you realistically will have in building a layout and adjust things so they are doable for you. You've made a good start in just being willing to consider DIY.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:58 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Anyway, does anyone have some tips on doing the conversion?

Steven,

I think Mike (mlehman) already gave you a push in that direction.  Take an inexpensive scrap locomotive/shell from a local train show and hone your handskills cutting and altering it until you're ready to kitbash your desired project.

A few years back I ran across and became intrigued with a unique war-time caboose for my prototype that I knew would never be released in plastic or brass:

What I ended up doing was taking a $6 Roundhouse 36' or 40' boxcar kit and kitbashing it with some parts from a Walthers wooden caboose.  I had to cut, drill, pare away, file, add, and paint parts until I got something that was close:

Now, this is just a rough prototype/proof of concept and I eventually want to construct/kitbash a much nicer, more accurate version of this prototype emergency war caboose.  The plus:

  1. It only cost me a few dollars in parts because I already had the windows, doors, and stair casings from the scrap caboose.
  2. It gave me was some good, firsthand experience learning how to kitbash.  Yea, I made mistakes...but I also learned how to correct them...or what I would do differently next time.

So, I would encourage you to try your hand at it, Steven - even if it means your dream of this 8-unit lash-up won't materialize as quickly as you would like.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by trwroute on Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:51 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Could the units have the angled end like a typical unit?

 

 

Sure, they could.  Cannon & Company makes an end that looks like you want.  They also make a roof panel that fits the end and would be perfect.  You would still need styrene to make the sides.

Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge

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