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Professional Locomotive Kitbashing Services

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Saturday, February 25, 2017 5:22 PM

On my railroad, if any unit is involved in a wreck and the damage is not too serious, it will be repaired and return to service. If the damage is extensive however, ie (crushed cab, busted motor, loose parts), the unit will be sidelined until I figure out what to do with it.

I usually don't bother with converting or kitbashing.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, February 25, 2017 8:19 PM

I see, very interesting.

Steve

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, February 26, 2017 8:06 AM

As one who enjoys dabbling in realistic fantasy builds from time to time, let me inject a heaping helping of reality here. Your intentions are bounded by desire, budget and resources. You're at Step One here, figuring out what you want.

I don't want to presume what your resources might be, but unless your allowance or job is considerably more healthy than most at age 16, being able to afford the services of a custombuilder is something even many adults find difficult to afford.

Fortunately, budget is only one part of resources. You also have many other things you can rely on. Being young with time to learn, steady hands and eyes,  and able to reach out to help from others are all advantages you've just started to flex.

Have you tried to build anything yet? If not, that's the first thing I'd do. Doesn't need to be hacking up some $200+ loco, in fact, better to start with modding an old blue box Athearn or something you don't have a lot of emotional investment in to start with. Things might be ugly at first, but you'll learn quickly, just keep at it. Pretty soon you'll wonder why you expected someone else to do the job, when it's actually a lot of fun.

Realistically, that's the most likely way you'll achieve your goals, too. Here's a few examples of somewhat fantastical projects that I enjoyed building.

A DL-531 that started as a Powerline shell on a K&M Engineering HOn3 drive, with added details including a steam generator

A modern diesel built on a Liliput shell and chassis, converted to HOn3 from HOn30, then painted and detailed to suit

This is what I call a NW2M. It's a Kato NW2 with the drive narrowgauged, then the shell was hacked with pieces from a second donor shell to provide a little more room for a decoder and add dynamic brakes and a steam generator.

Nothing really hard here, but the practice I get with any project helps advance my skills to tackle more complicated ones. Even if I had a budget so I could afford the services of a custom builder, I would still prefer the enjoyment of making it myself. If your budget is limited like mine, it's also the only choice unless you intend to let your wallet limit your enjoyment of the hobby.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, February 26, 2017 10:04 AM

zstripe
 
 
cascadenorthernrr

Yes the point would be the locomotive was in a accident and was damaged beyond repair to original status therefore they converted it to a slug or b-unit. So yes it would be a "fantasy" idea. 

And serve no logical reasoning......can only be used in one way operation....a nightmare...for any road.

Take Care!Smile, Wink & Grin

Frank 

cascadenorthernrr

This is the "GENERAL DISSCUSSION" forum therefore please just give me tips on kitbashing not prototype operations thank you.

 

By definition, General Discussion would include a discussion of the prototype.

Fantasy is one thing, cost is quite another.  Let's say that, generously, you can find some used Athearn SD70ACe locomotives for $50 each.  To build your 8-loco consist, it will set you back $400. Now, you pay a professional locomotive kitbashing service say, generously, $50 per locomotive to kitbash. At that point, you are out of pocket another $400, or $800 total.

At some point, you decide to unload this kitbashed fantasy consist. Who would want it?  Something to think about.

I think that Frank makes a very valid point.

Rich

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, February 26, 2017 11:13 AM

richhotrain
Let's say that, generously, you can find some used Athearn SD70ACe locomotives for $50 each. To build your 8-loco consist, it will set you back $400. Now, you pay a professional locomotive kitbashing service say, generously, $50 per locomotive to kitbash.

Rich,

A custom builder would be VERY generous if they charged a mere $50 to do this work IMO. I would say the starting cost would likely be double that -- and up. But I don't think we need beat that to death. Whatever it might be, it's gonna add up to a chunk of change. Nothing wrong with that if you can afford it,  just the hard facts if you're not willing to go DIY for something like this.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:15 PM

I agree Mike.  I was trying to be the master of understatement.  Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, February 26, 2017 5:04 PM

richhotrain
At some point, you decide to unload this kitbashed fantasy consist. Who would want it?  Something to think about.

Remember this "kitbash" from a few years ago?

I seem to recall it sold on Ebay for a pretty good chunk of change back then!

Hello P.T. Barnum... (or W.C. Fields, your choice)

Regards, Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 26, 2017 8:24 PM

Well I do NOT believe I would EVER try to sell them! (or "unload" them as it were) Anyway, does anyone have some tips on doing the conversion?

Steve

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:19 PM

Here is a paper I just typed up to explain the reasons for the conversions of the units.

A Brief History of the CNRR’s EMD SD70ACe B-Units and Road Slugs

 

The Cascade Northern originally maintained sixty EMD SD70Ace cabbed units in the #8000 series then in July of 2017 a brace of four units were on the lead of a tank car unit train when the train derailed, killing the crew instantly and damaging the four units beyond repair to their original form; therefore two of the units were converted to booster units because the damage was mainly to the cabs of the units, the two others were converted to road slugs due to the extent of the damage to the cabs and prime movers of the units. The units rolled out of the shops two months later in an A-B-C-C-B-A lashup the units were used in executive and excursion service for the next two months while efficiency tests were conducted on them. Four months after the accident, the units entered regular freight service. Each unit received a special plaque in memoriam of the men who died at the controls of these units and a grant that once the units are operationally obsolete they will be placed on display at CNRR headquarters as a memorial to all the men who died working on a train of the CNRR.

Steve

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Posted by trwroute on Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:25 PM

I think the best way to tackle this would be to use just styrene to make the hood sides, end, and roof. Since it is a rebuild, I think the railroad would use sheet metal and a flat hood end. Once the basic shape is built, you can add whatever details you want. The handrails would need to be modified, and you can use some Athearn BB metal stations and some brass wire to fit the way you want. I can't imagine this conversion would be real difficult, and you will learn as you go.

Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:30 PM

Could the units have the angled end like a typical unit?

Steve

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:34 PM

Like this.

Image result for emd sd70ce rear end

Also this is a prime example of a damaged unit that could be converted into a booster unit.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by trwroute on Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:51 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Could the units have the angled end like a typical unit?

 

 

Sure, they could.  Cannon & Company makes an end that looks like you want.  They also make a roof panel that fits the end and would be perfect.  You would still need styrene to make the sides.

Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:58 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Anyway, does anyone have some tips on doing the conversion?

Steven,

I think Mike (mlehman) already gave you a push in that direction.  Take an inexpensive scrap locomotive/shell from a local train show and hone your handskills cutting and altering it until you're ready to kitbash your desired project.

A few years back I ran across and became intrigued with a unique war-time caboose for my prototype that I knew would never be released in plastic or brass:

What I ended up doing was taking a $6 Roundhouse 36' or 40' boxcar kit and kitbashing it with some parts from a Walthers wooden caboose.  I had to cut, drill, pare away, file, add, and paint parts until I got something that was close:

Now, this is just a rough prototype/proof of concept and I eventually want to construct/kitbash a much nicer, more accurate version of this prototype emergency war caboose.  The plus:

  1. It only cost me a few dollars in parts because I already had the windows, doors, and stair casings from the scrap caboose.
  2. It gave me was some good, firsthand experience learning how to kitbash.  Yea, I made mistakes...but I also learned how to correct them...or what I would do differently next time.

So, I would encourage you to try your hand at it, Steven - even if it means your dream of this 8-unit lash-up won't materialize as quickly as you would like.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, February 26, 2017 11:42 PM

cascadenorthernrr
Also this is a prime example of a damaged unit that could be converted into a booster unit.

Yes, the RRs that did this often ordered the sheet metal from the mfg to duplicate the end as located on the opposite end of the unit. Easy to do and assemble with the equipment at most RR shops.

The point on checking the Cannon catalog for parts is well taken. If you just used plain ol' styrene to hack together something, it's going to suffer by comparison to the rest of the unit. On the other hand, buying parts can run up the cost, too, which is why I was a skeptic about Rich's playing devil's advocateWinkDevil on cost at only $50. It's real easy these days to throw that much in parts alone at a loco, no matter who does the labor.

I didn't want to discourage you in bringing up considering doing it yourself. It's easy to feel like you're hitting a brick wall if you have big expectations and limited funds and then just give up. Better to consider how much time and money you realistically will have in building a layout and adjust things so they are doable for you. You've made a good start in just being willing to consider DIY.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:04 AM

mlehman
 

The point on checking the Cannon catalog for parts is well taken. If you just used plain ol' styrene to hack together something, it's going to suffer by comparison to the rest of the unit. On the other hand, buying parts can run up the cost, too, which is why I was a skeptic about Rich's playing devil's advocate on cost at only $50. It's real easy these days to throw that much in parts alone at a loco, no matter who does the labor.

It was less about playing devil's advocate than it was about estimating the sheer cost of such a project. I used a lowball figure of $50 per loco as a professional kitbashing fee to make the point that it would cost at least $800 to buy and kitbash 8 locos. Since the fee of a professional kitbasher would arguably be a lot more than $50 per loco, the total cost of this project would likely be north of $1,000.

Rich

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:18 AM

I wouldn't mind at least one or two kit bashed locomotives in my roster, like a Santa Fe SF30C or a BN Triclops SD60. 

It would likely be a model a manufacturer has not done yet.

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:27 AM

cascadenorthernrr,

SD70ACes cut down as B-units,

WOW! 8 locomotives with the middle ones B-units or slugs and two driving cabs at either end...

My my, you like to fantasize a lot!    Laugh

This whole idea is funny yet somehow interesting at the same time.

What will you come up with next? LOL

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:30 AM

Well I think eight might be pushing it a little, maybe six.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:38 AM

If the Aces are numbered in the 8000s, what's below them?

Post some photos when the project's done. I'd love to see them!

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:41 AM

It would be two A-units, two B-units, and Two C-units or A-B-C-C-B-A lashup; A-units are the cabbed units, B-units are the cabless units, and lastly C-units are the road slugs.

Steve

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:42 AM

I'm not sure, I was basing it off CN's 8100 series. That's mainly because I'm going to use Athearns SD70ACe CN EMD Ex-Demo/Lease Blue Livery.

Steve

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, February 27, 2017 12:56 AM

That's one **** of a locomotive power lashup! 

Are all the units road units?  What kind of freight cars would they be pulling?  How long would the train be?

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 1:26 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Like this.

Image result for emd sd70ce rear end

Also this is a prime example of a damaged unit that could be converted into a booster unit.

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=216854

It could have been, but was rebuilt and renumbered.  Why?  Probably rebuilt because its build date was prior to Tier 4 emissions requirements, if you bought new it would have to be Tier 4, if you rebuild it does not have to meet those requirements.  Or it could be that railroads already replace cabs on locomotives.  These things happen a lot more often than you might think. 

Still an interesting project.  If you google BNSF 9159, the third result down is the NTSB RAR (railroad accident report).  This will give you an idea of what happened, including wreck photos and the description of the accident. 

Here is the link to the RAR:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR1202.pdf

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Posted by maxman on Monday, February 27, 2017 3:36 PM

cascadenorthernrr
It would be two A-units, two B-units, and Two C-units or A-B-C-C-B-A lashup; A-units are the cabbed units, B-units are the cabless units, and lastly C-units are the road slugs.

I am confused by this consist.  Seems to me that a road slug needs to be mated with a unit with a cab since it needs its operating instructions from someplace.  And I think it would be unlikely to be mated with a B unit.

So maybe your consist might be A-C-B-B-C-A.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 4:30 PM

Well to my understanding the road slug acts as a parasite off the other units in the consist; meaning it uses the the prime mover and generator from the next unit over but can be MU'ed like any other unit. But if I'm wrong please correct me.

Steve

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 4:42 PM

maxman
 
cascadenorthernrr
It would be two A-units, two B-units, and Two C-units or A-B-C-C-B-A lashup; A-units are the cabbed units, B-units are the cabless units, and lastly C-units are the road slugs.

 

I am confused by this consist.  Seems to me that a road slug needs to be mated with a unit with a cab since it needs its operating instructions from someplace.  And I think it would be unlikely to be mated with a B unit.

So maybe your consist might be A-C-B-B-C-A.

 

I agree, road slugs are normally paired with a Cab equipped unit.  The reason for this is that they cannot move on their own power, and have no controls onboard. 

Edit:  There are Cab equiped road slugs, owned by NS.  http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/700.html

Cabless boosters may or may not have hostler controls on board.  I have no data on this.  In the days of covered wagon B units, most that I have heard of did.  Those that did not where ones that were permanently connected with drawbar.  Slugs may or may not be equipped for MU operation with other locomotives, however DPU equipment in the other cab equipped unit.   

Also from a practical modeling standpoint, are you planning on powering those road slugs?  If so where would you put the motor?  Are you planning on DC or DCC operation?  Do you have the capability of removing metal on the locomotive chasis to reduce the hood height? 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:06 PM

The Norfolk Southern Road slugs give me an idea.  They have cabs on them, and look like a regular locomotive, but have no prime mover in them.  So what you can do here is SD70Ace-SD70B-RC70-RC70-SD70B-SD70Ace.

The beauty of this is you dont really need to do anything to the road slugs, just renumber them/replace the SD70Ace with your remote cab equipped slug option. 

That leaves just two less extensive RTR-bash projects the cabless boosters. 

Another quick thought:  An SD70Ace is 75 scale feet long, or just about 10.3" in length.  6 units would yield an impressive 62" (ish) long locomotive consist.   

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:12 PM

cascadenorthernrr
Well to my understanding the road slug acts as a parasite off the other units in the consist; meaning it uses the the prime mover and generator from the next unit over but can be MU'ed like any other unit.

It is mated with a specially equipped mother unit or units in all cases.  Norfolk Southern has built some with Cabs (using old GP38s). 

http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/700.html

The generators in the mother unit(s) supply one or both of the truck mounted traction motors, depending on how the individual unit is equipped.  It cannot be connected to a factory supplied cab equipped locomotive, unless it was ordered that way, I dont think EMD/GE are in the slug business anymore, just like they are not in the non-cab equipped booster business.   

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:17 PM

So even with modifications the slug cannot be operated with MU?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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