Santa Fe in the 50s

[Anonymous]

I am planning a new layout featuring the AT&SF in 1950s New Mexico. I know that the Santa Fe rans F7s in those years but am not sure what other disel equipment they were running or if they were still running steam.

Can anyone help me figure this out?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by david.provost

I am planning a new layout featuring the AT&SF in 1950s New Mexico. I know that the Santa Fe rans F7s in those years but am not sure what other disel equipment they were running or if they were still running steam.

Can anyone help me figure this out?

Early fifties you could use steam but by late 1955 or so only a few 2900 and 5011 class for helper service which ended in late 1957. The last steam was used in helper service out of Belen in 57.

Remember, modelers license always allows use of steam.
The diesels included the F3's, F7's and FT's along with a few GP7's by the mid fifties along with various switchers and other diesels, including the PA's.

[SSW9389]

You would also have seen the ALCO RSD-4s and RSD-5s in New Mexico.

[whipperpup]

Check out Modeling of the Railroads of the 1950's. It has much info on the ATSF. Also, August 2004 MR. There Gary Hoover has done a pretty good job with both SF and UP over Raton and Cajon pass. Good magazine, it has a lot of info.

[wjstix]

I think ATSF got their Alco RSD-15 "alligators" in 1959, about the same time as their low-nose SD-18 from GM?? Santa Fe loved diesels because they didn't require the huge amounts of water that steam engines did. IRRC they were the first RR to buy FT's from General Motors in 1940-41, and bought as many as they could, followed by F-3's and F-7's for both freight and passenger service.

In the fifties they might have still had some early E units from the 1930's, those were the first engines to wear the famous "warbonnet" paintscheme.

[wjstix]

p.s. Great Model Railroads 2005 had a nice article on a layout featuring the Santa Fe in the southwest c. 1952 or so.

[SSW9389]

Santa Fe received their first RSD-15s and SD24s in 1959.

E units would not be used in regular service in New Mexico. The E units were flat landers on Santa Fe.

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

I think ATSF got their Alco RSD-15 "alligators" in 1959, about the same time as their low-nose SD-18 from GM?? Santa Fe loved diesels because they didn't require the huge amounts of water that steam engines did. IRRC they were the first RR to buy FT's from General Motors in 1940-41, and bought as many as they could, followed by F-3's and F-7's for both freight and passenger service.

In the fifties they might have still had some early E units from the 1930's, those were the first engines to wear the famous "warbonnet" paintscheme.

[Southwest Chief]

Passenger locos:
F3's, F7's,
PA's on the Fast Mail, and Grand Canyon,
and the rare run through, Erie Built, DL-109, or even E8m's

But for New Mexico it was mostly F3's and F7's.
Doodle Bugs were the main power for branch lines.

Freight locos:
Blue Freight Scheme (varied depending on the specific era)
FT's, F3's, F7's, and F9's

Zebra Stripe
GP7's, GP9's, late 50's saw the zebra striped RSD15's and SD24's

Switchers:
A great mix of zebra striped Alco, EMD, Baldwin, and Fairbanks Morse locos.

Get some books on the Santa Fe, there are so many out there. They'll prove to be great resources for modeling and what locos/rolling stock to use.

But you can’t go wrong with F3’s and F7’s on the mainline Santa Fe for the 50’s. So I would suggest to start with Ahearn’s fantastic genesis F units (passenger and freight). LifeLike’s Proto 2000 GP7’s and 9’s are also good. Kato’s NWs are perfect, and Atlas’s Alco switchers are also top notch. If you want branch line service, the Bachmann Doodle Bug is a nice model, with the Pullman green version being the most prototypical.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone. Your feedback and attention to detail is invaluable.

David [:p]

[leighant]

Some books I find useful on modeling 1950s Santa Fe

Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway, Volume 1 Richard E. Cox.
1984, Vanishing Vistas, Sacramento, Cal. pages unnumbered.
A horizontal-format book of full page color photos printed on one
side of the page with caption on the back of the photo (not facing
it). Photos similar to the oversize postcards published by the
same firm.

ATSF Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, Lloyd E. Stagner.
1995, Morning Sun Books, Edison, N.J. 128p.
Two or three color pictures on each page of passenger and freight
cars, organized by car type. Not definitive or necessarily
representative, but lots of photos from 1960s to 90s. In some
cases, the caption information is based on an incorrect
identification of the car number, and the information matches the
number but it is not the actual car shown.

Coach, Cabbage and Caboose : Santa Fe Mixed Train Service John B. McCall. 1979, Kachina Press, Dallas, Texas. 256 p.
Complete coverage of mixed train service with timetables of
runs, narrative history and rosters, photos and scale drawings
of nearly all coach-baggage combines on the Santa Fe. Includes
a year-by-year list of what train numbers ran on what routes
from 1901 to 1967, the end of mixed service.

Condensed Line Profile- The Belen Cutoff. Ellinor, Kansas to Belen,
New Mexico. Published as a supplement to Vol.12 Issue 3 of the
Santa Fe Modeler 3rd Quarter, 1989. Reproduced from official Santa Fe engineering materials, Russell Crump Collection.

Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail E. D. Worley. 1965, Southwest Railroad Historical Society. 2nd printing, 1976, Philip M. Dybvig Inc. Dallas, Texas. 480 pages + diagram section D1-D128.
History of each individual locomotive on the Santa Fe, arranged
by steam locomotive wheel arrangements and diesels by classes and
freight, passenger or switcher service. Also gasoline and diesel
motorcars, proposed but not built locomotives. Photos and
"mechanical arrangement diagrams" of all loco classes.
"The Bible of Santa Fe motive power."

Prototype Modeler August 1977 - October 1978. selected issues to
1989. (successor to Southwestern Prototype Modeler, et al.)

Quarter Century of Santa Fe Consists, A Fred W. Frailey. 1974, RPC Publications, Godfrey, Ill. 208p.
The quarter century is the one from the end of World War Two to
the beginning of Amtrak. Organized by trains, this book gives
the consist- each car in the train from the front to the markers,
the type of cars and the number series of cars usually assigned.
If a certain car did not go the entire route of the train, the
points where it was switched on or off are given, and connecting
trains which carried them. The section on each train goes through
all the major changes made through the years in the trains consist
and operation. Using this book, you can reconstruct what the
regular makeup of any passenger train looked like, as it passed
any specific point on the Santa Fe, in any given year or season
during the period covered. Or you can trace how a New Orleans-
Oakland through sleeper was carried on a Missouri Pacific train
from New Orleans to Houston, switched to the California Special
at Houston and carried to Clovis, New Mexico and there switched
to the San Francisco Chief.
This is not specifically an equipment book but it has around a
hundred photographs and/or floor plans of interesting passenger
cars to illustrate how a car fit into a particular service.
The book also includes a set of Santa Fe condensed system
timetables for major passenger trains, at two or three year
intervals covering the quarter century. And it includes a roster
by type and car number of all the passenger cars used during the
period covered.

Refrigerator Cars: Ice Bunker Cars 1884-1979 (Santa Fe Railway Rolling Stock Reference Series- Vol.2) C. Keith Jordan, Richard H. Hendrickson, John B. Moore and A. Dean Hale. 1994, Santa Fe Modelers Organization Inc., Norman, Ok. 288p.
Photos, scale drawings, history, operations. Also covers company
service ice cars, salt cars for transporting ice used in
refrigeration, and former reefers in brick car service.
(I don't think New Mexico was either much of an origination point or a destination point for reefers-- but they nearly all RAN THROUGH New Mexico on the way east from Southern California, central valley of California and the Arizona Peavine line...)

Route of the Warbonnets Joe McMillan. 1977, publ. Joe McMillan 176 p.
Black and white actions photos arranged by location following the
Santa Fe system end to end, Dearborn Station to Richmond.

Santa Fe Diesels and Cars 1974, Wayner Publications, New York. 79p.
Black and white photos of most of the diesels Santa Fe operated
up to the time, the 2 largest but entirely untypical motor cars,
a fair sampling of passenger cars from wood to high-levels,
and a cursory look at freight cars (such as photos of 4 box cars
to illustrate the variety in Santa Fe's 200 classes of box cars).
Still lots of interesting pictures, including some modelable
projects.

Santa Fe Modeler Nov/Dec 1977- 4th Q 1993 Santa Fe Modelers Organization. (New organization formed after Santa Fe Modelers Association of 1969 evolved into the "generic" Prototype Modeler publication)

Santa Fe Railway Painting & Lettering Guide for Model Railroaders Volume 1 Rolling Stock_ Compiled by Richard H. Hendrickson. 1990, Santa Fe Modelers Organization, Inc. Dallas, Texas. 65p.
Organized survey of SF system practices in painting and lettering
cars from 1910 to the time of publication. Many illustrations
of cars and a chart of assignment of "Name Train" slogans and styles of system maps painted on box and refrigerator cars.

Santa Fe Streamliners; The Chiefs and their Tribesmen, Karl Zimmermann. 1987, Quadrant Press, New York. 112p.
Illustrated survey of predecessors & development of the
streamliners.

Santa Fe System Standards 1978, Kachina Press, Dallas, Texas.
Volume 1. Standard signs, bunkhouse, switch stands, stockyards,
scales, scale houses and track layouts for scales, highway
crossings, trestles.
Volume 2. Standard depots, closets, freight house scales, operators
cottage, section houses, bunk houses, interlocking towers,
crossing gates & signals, signals, signal maintainer's material
house, right of way fence and cattleguards.
Volume 3. Standard bumping posts, track car setout, culverts, bridge
and pier abutments, crosstie spacing, loading platforms, store
houses, boiler house, water treatment plant, tanks, oil and water
columns, roundhouses, enginehouse pipe lines, sand house, switch
stands, signals. Total 384 p.

Stock Cars of the Santa Fe Railway, Frank M. Ellington, John Berry, and Loren Martens. Originally published by Railroad Car Press. 1986 second printing by Santa Fe Railway Historical Society, Inc. Los Angeles, Cal. 134p.
Class by class survey of Santa Fe stockcars, narrative history,
scale drawings, photographs, stock operations. Photos, scale
drawings and narrative of SF stockyards and stock chutes, plus
station-by-station listing of all stock handling facilities on
the Santa Fe system with the carload capacity of each stockyard,
from Santa Fe "List of Officers, Agents, Stations, 1961".

System Employee Timetables, November 29, 1942, Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Vol. 1 Eastern Lines; Vol. 2 Western Lines;
Vol. 3 Gulf Lines; Vol. 4 Coast Lines.
Reprinted June 1992 by Santa Fe Modelers Organization, Inc. Norman, OK

Warbonnet Official Journal of Santa Fe Railway History and Modeling,
1st Quarter 1995- date.
(successor to Santa Fe Modelers Organization after merger with Santa Fe Railway Historical Society)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

I think ATSF got their Alco RSD-15 "alligators" in 1959, about the same time as their low-nose SD-18 from GM?? Santa Fe loved diesels because they didn't require the huge amounts of water that steam engines did. IRRC they were the first RR to buy FT's from General Motors in 1940-41, and bought as many as they could, followed by F-3's and F-7's for both freight and passenger service.

In the fifties they might have still had some early E units from the 1930's, those were the first engines to wear the famous "warbonnet" paintscheme.

IIRC the FTs did not come from General Motors. EMD (Electro Motive Division of General Motors) was still independent and called EMC (Electro Motive Corporation). Not sure of the date of change from EMC to EMD but I think it was post FT.

[SSW9389]

The Electro Motive Corporation became the Electro Motive Division of General Motors on January 1, 1941. EMC built the original demonstrator and the first Santa Fe FT set. EMD built the remaining FTs.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ebriley

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

I think ATSF got their Alco RSD-15 "alligators" in 1959, about the same time as their low-nose SD-18 from GM?? Santa Fe loved diesels because they didn't require the huge amounts of water that steam engines did. IRRC they were the first RR to buy FT's from General Motors in 1940-41, and bought as many as they could, followed by F-3's and F-7's for both freight and passenger service.

In the fifties they might have still had some early E units from the 1930's, those were the first engines to wear the famous "warbonnet" paintscheme.

IIRC the FTs did not come from General Motors. EMD (Electro Motive Division of General Motors) was still independent and called EMC (Electro Motive Corporation). Not sure of the date of change from EMC to EMD but I think it was post FT.

[Misteslaus]

The M190 doodlebug was in service to the end on the run from Clovis to Carlsbad -- gotta love the doodlebugs!

Anw Cornerstone is coming out with the ATSF station in Portales -- just along this line -- smile. I used to live 5 blocks from there when I taught at ENMU in Portales.

Doc Duncan

[Anonymous]

David,

I'm also modelling Santa Fe in the mid-50's, but in Texas rather than New Mexico. One reason I picked the time and place was the big variety of rolling stock moving stuff around -- as the other writers have demonstrated.

One thing that helped me was to pick an exact year of the 1950's. Santa Fe locomotives looked very different in 1959 than they did in 1950.

As writers have also said, there is a HUGE amount of literature on the subject. One book I have "Santa Fe Vol 2" (I think) showed a heavy predominance of F units, mainly F3s and F7s.

One thing to watch if you're trying for accuracy -- paint schemes. Santa Fe had many paint schemes between the 30's and the 70's (other than the famous Warbonnet) and several of them shared the tracks in the 50's. I have a photo from a book of the Argentine Yard in Kansas City in the mid 50's and it shows F units in 4 different paint schemes.

Santa Fe also apparently repainted and renumbered several of the F units.

One more note about paint schemes: The large blue and gold "Santa Fe" logo was NOT used in the 50's. It didn't appear until the late 60's (I think)

The company was also very conscious about marketing consistency and extremely particular about which locomotives pulled which train. For instance, an FT in Cat Whisker paint would NEVER pull the Super Chief.

For locomotives I currently have
E6 A-B (Warbonnet) (a 'leftover' from the 30's)
F7 A-B (Warbonnet)
FT A-B (Cat Whiskers)
F3 ABBA (Cigar Band)
Baldwin DS4-4-1000 (Zebra stripes)
EMD-SW8 (Zebra Stripes)
4-8-4 Steam locomotive (the famous 3751 from BLI -- I couldn't resist keeping one big steam locomotive around)

Finally, heres a good link for you:
http://www.atsfrr.com/
It's the Santa Fe Historical and Modelling Society. They also have a quarterly publication "The Warbonnet" that has tons of prototype info. You can get back issues too.

Also check out http://www.railpictures.net/ You can run a search on ATSF and find all the locomotives of the 50's

I'd love to hear more about your progress and trade notes as we get out layouts built. Feel free to e-mail or call when you get a chance.

Good luck,
Joe Cayton
[e-mail]

[laj200]

Santa Fe never had SD18s. Their first 6 axle diesels were SD24s.

[DrW]

Hi Andy,

First, let me point out that you are responding to a 12 year old thread. Secondly, your comment is only correct as far as EMD locos in freight service are concerned. Even disregarding passenger locos (such as the E units), ATSF bought six-axle ALCOs (RSD4, RSD5, RSD7) much earlier than the SD24s, starting in 1951.

Cheers

JW

[caldreamer]

This is the most complete and comprehensive all time Santa Fe Roster.  I model the modern BNSF with a lot of modelers licence and have a number of Santa Fe painted engines, including the RSD-15 alligators, GP30's, GP35s, SD40-2's and U boats.

The link is:

http://old.atsfrr.org/resources/CrossetGene/ATSF_all-time%20diesel%20roster/index.htm

    Ira