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NEW YORK CENTRAL 4-6-0 as offered by Bachmann over the years

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NEW YORK CENTRAL 4-6-0 as offered by Bachmann over the years
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, June 19, 2024 4:42 PM

Apparently the NYC did have two locomotives that pretty much match the Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-0's offered over the years. 

    

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 19, 2024 8:34 PM

Are they the locomotives that were kept because an Alco RS had too heavy an axle load?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, June 19, 2024 8:56 PM

The loco and sister 1291 are reviewed in a Wiki article.  They were a couple of the last NYC steamers, so they were probably available for later day prototype study.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Central_1290_and_1291

 

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, June 20, 2024 9:47 AM

The general lines of those NYC ten-wheelers resemble locomotives from a number of other railroads, both Class 1s and short lines, including the uneven spacing of the drivers and the taper to the boiler.   Model railroad manufacturers are wise to offer generic-yet-close models, because close enough is OK for many and perhaps most modelers, particularly compared to brass -- assuming brass is even available -- and all the better if relatively simple changes can get you even closer to accurate.  That is where in my opinion AHM/Rivarossi, for all the popularity of their models, probably cost themselves some sales with things like the rare and unusual IHB 0-8-0, the NYC Hudson, and such.  Another example would be Tyco/Mantua.  Their 4-6-2 was essentially B&O prototype but quite similar to Pacifics from many railroads, particularly with a modest change of tenders, or a different cab.  By contrast their 2-8-2 mikado was a rather bizarre blend of things not really close to any railroad's Mikado (some say the boiler was taken from a Wabash Hudson).

Dave Nelson

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, June 20, 2024 10:59 AM

Actually the Mantua 2-8-2 is really close in dimensions and details to the DT&I 800 Class built by Lima. The 800's were like baby Lima Berks in their features.

It lacks the all weather cab and the outside bearing pilot truck, but is otherwise very close to that locomotive.

Some 800's were built with four axle tenders and others had a tender very much like the modern six axle B&O style tender from Mantua. 

And Kemtron made an all weather cab conversion for it.

https://rr-fallenflags.org/dti/dti-s805ggD.jpg

Sheldon

    

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, June 20, 2024 11:38 AM

A big difference is the NYC engines had Stephenson valve gear, while the Bachmann 4-6-0 has outside valve gear...maybe Walschaert? Don't remember for sure. I would love to see Bachmann offer their 4-6-0 and 2-6-0 and maybe some others with Stephenson valve gear.

Stix
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, June 20, 2024 8:24 PM

wjstix

A big difference is the NYC engines had Stephenson valve gear, while the Bachmann 4-6-0 has outside valve gear...maybe Walschaert? Don't remember for sure. I would love to see Bachmann offer their 4-6-0 and 2-6-0 and maybe some others with Stephenson valve gear.

 

True, and there are other differences, but I have known several NYC modelers to consider the Bachmann model a complete "fooby", a term I hate by the way.

At least for me, this information confirms that there were locomotives of that size, wheel arrangement and general features with NEW YORK CENTRAL painted on the tender and even more interesting that they stayed in service so late.

If you really wanted one with Stephenson valve gear, that is the easiest kit bash in the history of model railroading. Take the valve gear off and replace it with a piece of wire and what looks like the bell crank lever.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by snjroy on Friday, June 21, 2024 9:59 AM

A nice engine for sure. And good for just about any purpose on a layout (bonus!). Here are the dimensions:

https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/steam-460-specs.htm

I measured the length against my Bachmann (engine only), and it is pretty much bang on. An auxiliary tender would be an interesting add-on (based on the info given on the Wikipedia page). 

Simon

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, June 21, 2024 1:14 PM

BTW as far as I know, Bachmann has never referred to either of their HO 4-6-0 models as being accurate models of, or even based on, New York Central engines. NYC is just one of the lettering schemes used on the model, since NYC had engines that were at least pretty similar. 

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
If you really wanted one with Stephenson valve gear, that is the easiest kit bash in the history of model railroading. Take the valve gear off and replace it with a piece of wire and what looks like the bell crank lever.

Well, and change the cylinders. Lionel's Pennsy 0-6-0 O scale model in the 1930s had working Stephenson valve gear, would think someone could do that today, even in HO.

Stix
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Posted by snjroy on Friday, June 21, 2024 2:07 PM

MDC 4-6-0s had the Stephenson valve gear arrangement. But the MDC model is about 5 scale feet longer than Bachmann's model. The Spectrum model also has nice separate pipe details. 

Simon

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, June 21, 2024 2:45 PM

wjstix

BTW as far as I know, Bachmann has never referred to either of their HO 4-6-0 models as being accurate models of, or even based on, New York Central engines. NYC is just one of the lettering schemes used on the model, since NYC had engines that were at least pretty similar. 

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
If you really wanted one with Stephenson valve gear, that is the easiest kit bash in the history of model railroading. Take the valve gear off and replace it with a piece of wire and what looks like the bell crank lever.

 

Well, and change the cylinders. Lionel's Pennsy 0-6-0 O scale model in the 1930s had working Stephenson valve gear, would think someone could do that today, even in HO.

 

Yes, that is the whole point, just like Dave commented, it is close, not an exact model.

Change the cylinders? Why? Both locomotives have slide valves.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, June 23, 2024 3:57 PM

Oops, yes the cylinders are good. 

Key point I was making is it's not a New York Central model, it's a generic model with NYC as one of the factory decorated options.

"The manufacturer claims no prototype for this model beyond being representative of Baldwin Locomotive Works designs of the early twentieth century."

https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/reviews/staff-reviews/bachmanns-ho-baldwin-4-6-0-ten-wheeler-steam-locomotive-offers-fine-detail-at-a-moderate-price/

 

Stix
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, June 23, 2024 4:59 PM

Nobody suggested otherwise. But in the past others have suggested that the NYC never had anything close.

    

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, June 25, 2024 1:55 PM

One thing for anyone thinking of getting one of these is that Bachmann has made two HO 4-6-0s, one with 52" drivers and one with 63" drivers; the NYC ten-wheelers had 64" drivers so obviously the 63" driver version would be the one to get.

Stix
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, June 26, 2024 5:07 PM

wjstix

One thing for anyone thinking of getting one of these is that Bachmann has made two HO 4-6-0s, one with 52" drivers and one with 63" drivers; the NYC ten-wheelers had 64" drivers so obviously the 63" driver version would be the one to get.

 

Yes, and the 63" driver version is the only version that Bachmann offered in NEW YORK CENTRAL lettering.

So all you need do is find one of them, take the valve gear off and dummy up some Stevenson rods, and you have a "reasonable" stand in.

Imagine that, once again Bachmann is more on top of things thay they ever get credit for - more than two decades ago......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, June 28, 2024 1:23 PM

However, Bachmann made both versions as undec engines. A NYC modeller who can't find the NYC decorated one might want to get an undec and letter it with decals. 

Stix

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