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Unstoppable II

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Unstoppable II
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, July 17, 2021 9:31 AM

Strange that the discussion of locomotive vs. truck horsepower and trucks posing as trains ... and the kitbashing of what are essentially 1:1 operating train models ... was interrupted only shortly after the 'behind the scenes' video links were provided.

I think the discussions of the technique are interesting in a 'modeling' context, albeit a somewhat unusual one, and that includes the use of Freightliner truck power Laugh

https://youtu.be/vOzRQ9eP-s4

for example at 1:24 and 2:24.

This might make an amusing vignette to model: 1:87 filmmakers attaching plastic truck frames and kludging up single-truck power and whole dummy locomotives... as regular powered/dummy locomotive consists with plastic sideframes roll by...

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 17, 2021 9:50 AM

Hollywood:  it takes weeks to prepare for one derailment.  

 

Every railroader out there: "amateurs!"

   The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, July 17, 2021 10:34 AM

The first thread, which was appropriately locked, was ludicrous and did not belong in an MR forum.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to see how fast you can get the moderator to lock this thread which is equally ludicrous.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 17, 2021 10:45 AM

richhotrain
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to see how fast you can get the moderator to lock this thread which is equally ludicrous.

You seem to have a jump start on that. 

   The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, July 17, 2021 10:57 AM

.

This was the first of the Kalmbach multiple posts of the same submission.

IT is playing with the ad feeds, too.  Hope no one else is sitting somewhere waiting for forum pages to finish loading...

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Posted by JDawg on Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:21 AM

I think that this topic has been talked to death. This "resurection" is neither needed or wanted. 

JJF


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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, July 17, 2021 12:02 PM

Kalmbach is having a field day delaying, losing, and doubling up posts today.  Note the submission times of what were my multiple 'identical' posts -- that's no buffer delay!

Their advertising has apparently frozen my browser trying to load itself now, so it's back to the phone.

I have not yet seen the second YouTube video that was posted, about shooting the infamous 'up on six wheels' curve shot.  I simply assumed it was just overdone CGI... but considering the work they did in prep for the derailment scene, it could be interesting.

From a modeling rather than a railroading perspective, of course.  Wouldn't want to veer off topic in this thread, as it were, would we?

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, July 17, 2021 2:12 PM

At first, I thought maybe this topic (a setup for filming a movie train crash) should be over on the Trains forum.

But.

They're really MODELING, in 1:1, a train.  That crashes.  It's not a REAL train, if you watch the video.

I think this topic is very appropriate, right here.

Of course, if you don't find it interesting, you can just ignore it.  The way I do when someone posts a boring lame topic.

 

Ed

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, July 18, 2021 7:13 AM

Even as a youngster, seeing The Train wreck scenes, at that time on the "big screen" was sure impressive.

I do recall reading about the filming of The Greatest Show On Earth and discovering that those wreck scenes were filmed using roughly 1½" scale equipment.

No, on second thought, I'm confusing Greatest Show with an older B&W movie about a circus train wreck. I'll have to dust off more brain cells.

Years later I remember seeing the photos of the big MGM auction and those Inch-and-a-half cars were shown in the warehouse.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 9:17 AM

As far as trucks posing as trains, I recall that in the movie "A Christmas Story" there's a part where the family goes 'downtown' to the department store to see Santa. Mixed in with the c.1936 vehicles when they're outside the store is a streetcar rolling by - however, it was actually a dummy body built over an automobile. Streetcars on that street had last run maybe 30 years before and all the tracks and wires were long gone. They shot it in such a way that you can't see the streetcar's trucks (or lack thereof).

Stix
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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 10:16 AM

Many years ago I was given the left over parts from a major films model train that was to be wreaked. This was done in a smaller scale and the front of the steam engine was remade from alluminum foil so that it would crush on impact.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 10:57 AM

gmpullman
No, on second thought, I'm confusing Greatest Show with an older B&W movie about a circus train wreck.

I'd swear that black-and-white movie was from 1936 (or so) and that someone posted a video link of its wreck scene in one of the Kalmbach forums... and not too long ago, either.

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 11:58 AM

Stix,

What year was A Christmas Story supposed to represent?  Cleveland Railway Company was in operation from 1910-1942...

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 12:08 PM

Tom,

No where in A Christmas Story does it specify a year.

If you watch the movie with the audio commentary on, the director says he was going for a look of the late 30s to early 40s.

The author, Jean Shepherd, was actually in the second grade in the late 1920s.

If you want to geek out... no new cars are shown in the film, all the cars have wear on them. The best looking vehicle we see is a taxi cab from the late 1930s. The Red Ryder ad Ralphie hides under his bed is from 1937. The Little Orphan Annie decoder ring is from 1940, but similar rings date to 1935. The Parker family car is a 1938 Oldsmobile that is in worn shape, suggesting that WW2 shortages are in effect.

No one in the film mentions the going-ons in Europe in the late 1930s or early 1940s.

I would love a Lionel train guy to date the models on display in the window at Higbee's Department Store.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 1:42 PM

And that's the era that I was guessing, Kevin, just from the cars, cast dress, and radio program.  So, if CRC was around till '42 then the trolley wouldn't be an anachronym...???

No bother.  It's still an enjoyable classic movie.  And the house they used for the exterior shots is only a 20 min drive from me.

Tom

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 4:37 PM

tstage
Cleveland Railway Company was in operation from 1910-1942...

Even after '42 some of the cars continued to be run on the Shaker Rapid:

 Shaker_12 Westbound by Edmund, on Flickr

I would have to research exact dates but I believe some were pressed into service in peak times into the 1950s to supplement the PCCs. I have a 1959 photo of a train of four 1914 Kuhlman cars still running on the Shaker/Van Aken line.

Of course a few were still run for special excursion use at least into the late 1970s.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by NittanyLion on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 9:34 PM

SeeYou190

The Little Orphan Annie decoder ring is from 1940, but similar rings date to 1935.

But, the Wizard of Oz characters at Higbee's are clearly the 1939 movie versions of the characters.  Between the Wizard of Oz and the decoder ring, it has to be either 1939 or 1940.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 10:15 PM

NittanyLion
Between the Wizard of Oz and the decoder ring, it has to be either 1939 or 1940.

Easier than that... if you know your Stephen Sieninger.

The Red Ryder strip that started the whole franchise didn't appear until November 1938... and even with coordinated marketing wouldn't have been 'famous' as a must-have Christmas thing that year, the year the Depression tried clamping down again.  (I have no idea how Ralphie accessed an alternate time continuum in which he had a published Red Ryder 'anything' from 1937.)  The Republic serial didn't start until late June 1940; the first comic-book wasn't until September 1940; most tellingly, the Daisy Red Ryder gun wasn't marketed as such until spring 1940.

Meanwhile Christmas season 1941 would... well, let's say December 7th wouldn't have gone unremarked, to amplify the point Kevin made.

So it's pretty clear circumstantially what Christmas we'd be looking at...

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:03 AM

Re "A Christmas Story", the street scenes were filmed in Cleveland, but the movie was set in "Holman Indiana" which was Jean Shepherd's fictionalized version of his hometown of Hammond, IN, just across the border from Chicago (remember Dad reading the newspaper story about the upcoming Bears game?). IIRC Shepherd grew up on Holman Ave. in Hammond.

I agree the movie doesn't appear to be set in one particular year. Shepherd was born in 1921 so would have been Ralphie's age (about 10-12?) in the early 1930's, but as noted there are details that would indicate it was a later time. BTW the "Little Orphan Annie" radio show was on the air starting in 1930 on WGN in Chicago, then went national on NBC's Blue Network 1931-42.

Keep in mind there were hundreds of stories Shepherd did about Ralphie and his exploits, including dating and serving in World War II. Some were stories he told on his radio show, some were published short stories (many published in Playboy). About a half-dozen were made into TV programs / movies for PBS in the 1970's-80's. Those PBS presentations had Ralph being a teenager in the 1950's.

I recall the department store trains included a c.1935 Lionel semi-scale Hiawatha set. (It was built to 'true' O scale of 1:43, but had detailing more like a tinplate train.)

Back to Cleveland, I understand someone bought the house used for the exterior shots and rebuilt the interior so the layout and decoration of the rooms were a duplicate of the movie sets (including the iconic lamp) so people could come and tour it.

Stix
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Posted by CSX Robert on Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:43 AM

tstage

And that's the era that I was guessing, Kevin, just from the cars, cast dress, and radio program.  So, if CRC was around till '42 then the trolley wouldn't be an anachronym...???

I don't think anybody said it was.  Stix's comment was that streetcars hadn't run on that street in 30 years when the movie was filmed, not in 30 years before it supposedly took place.  That's why they had to use a dummy over an automobile body - when they were filming there were no tracks for the streecar to run on.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:08 AM

wjstix
Shepherd was born in 1921 so would have been Ralphie's age (about 10-12?) in the early 1930's

Yeah.  I'm too young to have read his short stories in their original form, but I do have a copy of In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash.  The first time I read it, it really stood out how a lot of his stories were unambiguously set during the worst of the Depression.

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:10 AM

Parts of the movie were filmed in Toronto including this scene at the Christmas tree lot. Hard to tell from this photo what is going on with this streetcar.

https://torontoist.com/2012/08/reel_toronto_a_christmas_story/ 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085334/locations 

 

Brent

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:31 AM

wjstix
Ralphie's age (about 10-12?) in the early 1930's

Ralphie is 9 and in second grade.

Supposedly, Jean Shepherd was in second grade in the 1928-1929 school year.

According to the audio commentary the movie was intended to be set just before the great depression, but there was difficulty in finding props and locations, and the generic late 30s to early 40s time seemed more suited to the theme of childhood innocence. 

There are tons of details in the movie that did not exist until after WW2, but you need to really go onto full-tilt-geek-out to worry about such insignificant anachronisms.

Also, most of the gifts Randy received for Chistmas were more appropriate for the early 1930s.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:36 AM

Thanks, Stix.  With Robert's input I now understand where you are coming from.

Yes, the ACS house was fixed up and is open to tours, as well as overnight stays.  It's located in the Tremont area of Cleveland, overlooking The Flats.

Tom

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:47 AM

SeeYou190
According to the audio commentary the movie was intended to be set just before the great depression

Did they mention what the air-rifle trope that forms much of both the story and the movie was supposed to be in that context?  As I noted, Red Ryder wasn't around at all until nearly 1939, and the famous gun not until well into 1940.  While I'm sure there is some comparable thing available at the end of the New Era... Red Ryder it certainly wouldn't have been.

Not quite the anachronism of Ray Charles driving under a stack train, but a whole decade is nontrivial.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:53 AM

Overmod
Did they mention what the air-rifle trope that forms much of both the story and the movie was supposed to be in that context?

They do not go into any detail about the original story, and I have not read the original source material.

They did add characters for the movie, and most of the vignettes were not in the original story, or heavily modified for the film. Some of the "memories" were taken from Shepherd's other stories about different times.

Supposedly Jean Shepherd stepped aside and let the movie makers make the movie. He does the narration as "Adult Ralphie", and has a cameo in Higbees.

I have not seen it, and have not found it anywhere, but there was a version of A Christmas Story that aired on TBS one year where they had a crawl across the bottom of the screen that pointed out details and differences from the original story.

My copy of the movie is an earlier DVD version. There has since been a two-disc special edition DVD and a Blu-Ray version.

I think I need an upgrade.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:59 AM

tstage
Yes, the ACS house was fixed up and is open to tours, as well as overnight stays.  It's located in the Tremont area of Cleveland, overlooking The Flats. Tom

https://www.achristmasstoryhouse.com/ 

 

Brent

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, July 22, 2021 11:22 AM

A few years ago, TBS or it's sister network TNT would have movies with commentary about items concerning the film.

It's somewhat fitting as to the timing of this discussion about "A Christmas Story."  Jean Shepard's 100th birthday would've been July 26, a few days away.

Jeff

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, July 22, 2021 11:22 AM

BATMAN
Parts of the movie were filmed in Toronto including this scene at the Christmas tree lot.

I was aware of some of the St. Catharines locations, but not of those shot in Toronto (or as it's known locally Trawna).

Wayne

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, July 22, 2021 1:31 PM

The Christmas Story discussion reminds me of choosing a time frame for a model railroad...for some of us, modelling say "the fifties" and using equipment that existed in that decade - even if it means having a steam engine retired in 1953 sitting next to a diesel bought new in 1958 - is perfectly acceptable. Others would say if you're modelling "the fifties", it means you're really modelling the last day of 1959 - and doing it badly. To them, you have pick a specific year (or even month or day) and everything on your layout has to be correct for that year or month.

One is kinda like a history textbook, the other like a historical novel.

Stix

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