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Heavyweight Three Axle Trucks on Streamlined Passenger Equipment???

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Heavyweight Three Axle Trucks on Streamlined Passenger Equipment???
Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, February 2, 2018 3:51 PM

I was watching a video of the Great Northern in the 60s and I saw a few streamlined passenger cars with heavyweight style three axle trucks??? It wasn't a dome or otherwise heavier car as I could tell from the exterior... anyone know why a car like this would exist?

Steve

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 2, 2018 4:27 PM

Did you happen to notice a car number?

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, February 2, 2018 4:41 PM

 Budd RPO's delivered to the SP in 1950 had 3 axle trucks.

Could be a diner.

Could be an old heavyweight car painted to look like a modern lightweight - lots of railroads did that to certain types of cars that just didn;t get the utilization to justify replacing with all new cars, especially in a declining passenger revenue environment. There were several clever ways to disguise an older car to make it look like just another one of the brand new ones, at least from any distance. Some fancy painting on an older car was a lot cheaper than a new car.

                                     --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, February 2, 2018 4:50 PM

NWP SWP
It wasn't a dome or otherwise heavier car as I could tell from the exterior... anyone know why a car like this would exist?

You are sure it wasn't a GN Great Dome? A business car?

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4767087

There have been a handful of six-axle "lightweight" cars made, the RPO baggage cars for the Century and some diners come to mind.

Of course, weight is the main factor in selecting a truck to use for passenger equipment.

 

In some cases there were rebuilt, modernized AKA "betterment" cars that had new side sheets, windows and roof lines installed but in most cases retained their six-axle configuration. Great Northern had a few:

 

 

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=771547

 

 

As BMMECNYC points out, a little more information about the video you saw would be helpful.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by jrbernier on Friday, February 2, 2018 4:50 PM

   The GN had a lot of older baggage cars rebuilt with low profile roofs and new paint.  The parlor cars on the Badger/Gopher rebuilr with new roofs and thermopane windows.  The original 'luxury coaches' got new paint as well.

 

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, February 2, 2018 4:54 PM

NWP SWP

I was watching a video of the Great Northern in the 60s and I saw a few streamlined passenger cars with heavyweight style three axle trucks??? It wasn't a dome or otherwise heavier car as I could tell from the exterior... anyone know why a car like this would exist?

 

Because they're heavier, and need the extra axles.  Or, with baggage cars, also to raise the weight capacity of the car.

If it was a GN train, you might have been seeing the early (1937) light/heavyweight coaches.  I think those and the big domes were the only "lightweight" cars built new for GN that had 6 wheel trucks.  MAYBE a business car or two, also. 

GN also streamlined a number of heavyweight cars, baggage in particular.

 

Ed

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, February 2, 2018 4:56 PM

Yes, Great Northern rebuilt a fair number of heavyweight cars to make them blend in with the new streamlined cars. Biggest change was probably replacing the clerestory roof with a flatter low-profile roof...well, plus of course repainting from Pullman Green to the "Empire Builder" style orange and green.

Actually, quite a few railroads rebuilt cars like that in the 1940's-50's. Since Walthers offers many of their heavyweight cars in post-war 'streamliner' paint schemes rather than steam-era Pullman Green, I've always hoped they'd either offer the cars with streamlined styled roofs, or offer the roofs as a separate after-market replacement part.

Stix
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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, February 2, 2018 5:14 PM

wjstix

Yes, Great Northern rebuilt a fair number of heavyweight cars to make them blend in with the new streamlined cars. Biggest change was probably replacing the clerestory roof with a flatter low-profile roof...well, plus of course repainting from Pullman Green to the "Empire Builder" style orange and green.

Actually, quite a few railroads rebuilt cars like that in the 1940's-50's. Since Walthers offers many of their heavyweight cars in post-war 'streamliner' paint schemes rather than steam-era Pullman Green, I've always hoped they'd either offer the cars with streamlined styled roofs, or offer the roofs as a separate after-market replacement part.

 
You're right, a lot of roads modernised their heavyweight cars to better fit-in with the lightweight stuff.  While the change in roof style was the most obvious, many roads also replaced the windows with sealed Thermopane-types, and upgraded the paint schemes to fit in with those of the lightweights.  Where the road's lightweight cars were stainless steel, some roads painted the upgraded heavyweights silver, then added "shadow-lining" to mimic the corrugated portions of the newer cars.
Some roads also re-worked the clerestory-style roofs on baggage cars, just so they'd blend in better with the rest of the train.
 
Wayne
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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, February 2, 2018 5:39 PM

It wasn't a baggage car or dome it could've been a diner, it looked like a normal streamlined car just heavyweight trucks...

Steve

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, February 2, 2018 5:46 PM

NWP SWP
I saw a few streamlined passenger cars with heavyweight style three axle trucks???

Your problem is that you haven't looked at truck engineering long enough to realize those aren't necessarily the same truck designs under heavyweights.  There were quite a number of true 'streamlined' cars that used three-axle trucks for weight-bearing, ranging from diners to Superdomes, but those trucks are thoroughly modern in design and construction, comparable in stability and ride quality to contemporary OSH (look it up if you don't know what it means yet) trucks.

You could easily design a contemporary 125-mph-compatible low-unsprung-mass three-axle truck today, if you had any need for its weight bearing or weight distribution characteristics.  (There was, at one point around the turn of the millennium, the idea that upcoming HAL limits for some types of car dictated development of a modern three-axle freight truck, and considerable engineering work and some prototypes were developed.)

Whether or not you agree with me that Commonwealth cast trucks were not particularly 'poster children' for stable high speed, it might be noted that the best locomotive design minds of the late '30s conspired to put one* on the locomotive constituting arguably the fastest reciprocating locomotive design up to that time.  So three axles does not necessarily mean slower or clunkier at normal passenger running speeds of the '60s.

 

*Technically two, but the trailing truck used Bissel geometry so had relatively lower problems with lateral stability...
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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, February 2, 2018 6:44 PM

NWP SWP

It wasn't a baggage car or dome it could've been a diner, it looked like a normal streamlined car just heavyweight trucks...

 

 

This fits your description, though it isn't a diner:

 

 

and here's GN 1084, a buffet-parlor car:

 

 

Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, February 2, 2018 8:35 PM

And we have a winner!!! That's the cars I saw!!! Now why in the would would a streamlined coach have heavyweight trucks???

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, February 2, 2018 8:47 PM

NWP SWP
Now why in the would would a streamlined coach have heavyweight trucks???

As explained above, for reasons of economy, the railroad rebuilt older cars to better "fit-in" with streamlined equipment. Similar to the link to the photo of the GN 1084 I included in my first reply.

 

 Keystone_Banks by Edmund, on Flickr

 

 B&O_coach1 by Edmund, on Flickr

Both of the above cars have been "modernized" the PRR sleeper even having the open sections removed and roomettes in their place, along with newer, sealed Thermopane windows installed.

There were cases where some cars were painted silver and masking tape was used to make "shadowlining" on the car to replicate the stainless steel fluting that was becoming popular at the time.

It was all in an effort to try to win back the favor of the passengers by trying to provide better looking "streamlined" cars at a fraction of the cost of new.

Cheers! Ed

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Posted by BATMAN on Friday, February 2, 2018 9:39 PM

gmpullman
There were cases where some cars were painted silver and masking tape was used to make "shadowlining" on the car to replicate the stainless steel fluting that was becoming popular at the time.

Thanks, Ed, Now I am totally at peace with using label paper with bricks on it, on the inside of my roundhouse.Wink

Brent

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, February 2, 2018 9:53 PM

NWP SWP

And we have a winner!!! That's the cars I saw!!! Now why in the would would a streamlined coach have heavyweight trucks???

 

 

As the guy who provided you with your winner, may I refer you to my earlier comments, which you apparently did not read.

Could you please go back and re-read them?

It is important that you read and consider EVERY earlier post before posting.  I have got on other's case about this, so you are not alone.

 

Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, February 2, 2018 9:59 PM

I did so it was either a rebuild or weight requiments caused the need for the heavyweight trucks... thanks I can stop scratching my head now...

Steve

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, February 2, 2018 10:10 PM

NWP SWP

I did so it was either a rebuild or weight requiments caused the need for the heavyweight trucks... thanks I can stop scratching my head now...

 

 

That was a good question that you asked.

 

 

Ed

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