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Parking Steam Locomotives in Roundhouses

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Parking Steam Locomotives in Roundhouses
Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, May 29, 2017 8:02 PM

Everytime I see a picture of a steam locomotive in a roundhouse it is always parked with its tender barely inside the door. This makes no sense to me at all. As a career heavy equipment technician I would pull it all the way in, as far as possible. This would give the technician the maximum amount of space around the locomotive while servicing.

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Is this just something modelers do? Did the real railroads pull steamers in to the best space for servicing? I can believe modelers leave them near the door so they don't accidentally "double stack" a roundhouse stall that is already occupied.

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What was the real practice?

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-Kevin

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, May 29, 2017 8:38 PM

Pulling a locomotive "full forward" could obstruct working space ahead of the engine.  And also walking space.  I think this especially applies for locos that really are "just parked".  

I'm pretty sure they placed the locomotive, all the way forward or not, for the best positioning for the work they were doing.

 

Ed

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Posted by JOHN C TARANTO on Monday, May 29, 2017 8:53 PM

I'm by no means a railroad historian, but these are my thoughts.  

Most roundhouses in the United States were constructed in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.  As locomotive technology advanced with larger fireboxes for increased steaming power, so did the capicity and size of locomotive tenders.  As drivers were added, overall length of locomotives increased as well.  Hostlers having to spot locomotives underneath the smoke collectors in the roundhouse roof, were unable to the advance the locomotive far enough the accommodate their extended lengths.

 

In this photo, taken at the engine house (not a roundhouse) of the Nevada Northern Railway in Ely, Nevada, smoke collectors can be seen. 

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Posted by NittanyLion on Monday, May 29, 2017 8:59 PM

Also, your physical plant could predate your now longest piece of equipment and you do the best you can. 

For instance, the B-36 bomber was too long or too tall for the hangars at some bases, so they had to cut holes in the doors and fit them with collars that fit around the fuselage. Did what you had to. 

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Posted by DSchmitt on Monday, May 29, 2017 9:00 PM

Most work in the roundhouse are done on the locomotive, not the tender.  If the tender needs work it is usually removed and taken  to another shop.   While we think of the locomotive and tender as a unit, they are often treated indivulately by the railroad.  A single locomotive may have a number of different tenders, even different types, over its lifetime. 

Most roundhouses have a "jack" (funnel structure to allow the escape of smoke) over each track toward the back of the roundhouse. The loco is positioned so the smoke stack is under the jack.  The jack is far enough from the rear wall that there is plenty of room to work on and pull parts out the front of the locomotive.  Note that some roundhouses also have jacks towards the front (door side).

The Southern Pacific (Taylor Yard) roundhouse cross sections show a 4-10-2, stack under rear jack, with 16,000 gal tender fits in the round house with room to spare. A  4-8+8-2 Cab Forward has its stack positioned under the front jack.  A 16,000gal tender sicks outside the door 3' or more.  The same loco with a 21,500 gal tender, the tender sticks out at least 9'. 

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, May 29, 2017 9:08 PM

SeeYou190
This would give the technician the maximum amount of space around the locomotive while servicing.

Very little "servicing" was needed at the rear of the tender.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/125?size=_original#caption

Much of the work was done on the running gear, smokebox, front-end and appliances located on the side of the engine— water or air pump, air brake valves, stoker engine and such. The radial design of the roundhouse allowed for more space for this work toward the outer wall. Something else to consider is that the length of locomotives grew faster than the railroads could build (expensive) roundhouses to house these larger locomotives.

Unless the weather was especially cold or nasty, the extra work for the hostler's helper to open and close the doors was probably deemed an unnecessary inconvenience. 

Often you would see newer stalls added to older roundhouses that were 20, 30 maybe 50 feet longer than the stalls of the original building.

In this aerial view of NYC's Collinwood, Ohio, roundhouse, see how short, and I imagine cramped, the stalls are at the lower left compared to the newer ones located just above them. It appears that there were at least five or six additions, each one larger, over the years.

The PRR had to make separate, extended stalls on the Crestline, Ohio roundhouse to facilitate work on the T1s that were serviced there.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, May 29, 2017 9:10 PM

I hung out at the Southern Pacific Yard in El Paso in my early teens and to the best of my memory I don’t remember seeing the tenders all the way in the roundhouse.  I do remember there being a lot of room in front of the locomotives and the rear wall making the roubndhouse seem that much bigger, the maintenance pits were always exposed.  The mechanics were always telling me to keep away from the pits.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
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Posted by JOHN C TARANTO on Monday, May 29, 2017 11:12 PM

For the most part, roundhouses were used for quick servicing, maintenance and minor repairs.  Locomotives needed to be "turned" quickly and returned to duty as soon as possible.  Extended repairs and overhauls were performed in backshops.

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, June 1, 2017 12:07 PM

From what I've seen, it would be rare for a roundhouse to be built in such a way that an engine could pull up with it's pilot almost touching the back wall. Normally, the track stopped well short of that, with a walkway / work area of maybe 6-10' or so between the front of an engine pulled fully forward and the back wall.

http://fagoodman.com/wp-content/gallery/age-of-steam-2/ind-roundhouse-int.jpg

So they wouldn't really need engines to not go into the stall all the way to allow room to work on it. I think as has been mentioned above, it's simply that steam engines grew in size very quickly between 1880-1920. A 'modern' 4-8-4 wasn't going to fit very well in a stall designed for a 4-4-0.

Stix
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 1, 2017 3:47 PM

Locomotive position in roundhouse might also vary due maintenance (dropping a pair of drivers).  

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, June 1, 2017 4:35 PM

 I have been to Steamtown roundhouse in Scranton, Pa and steamers are pulled in for storage or maintenance with the tender rear showing at the doors. Easier to maintain the loco, especially the smoke box. Some would have the smoke box open for service when I did some tours.

An overhead crane, lift would be needed to remove the smoke box door. By that time, the tender would be removed to move the loco some for maintenace.

When steamers were in use. they did not make any money sitting in a roundhouse if useable. I remember seeing some pictures in magazines or train books of yards with a lot of steamers just coming in or waiting to head out.

One photo showed fifty steamers. Doubt I could find the book with that photo in all my books.

Rich

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Posted by joe323 on Friday, June 2, 2017 8:26 AM

Not sure about the prototype but the modeler may be leaving a bit sticking out in case the hand of god needs to grab it.

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, June 2, 2017 8:29 AM

joe323

Not sure about the prototype but the modeler may be leaving a bit sticking out in case the hand of god needs to grab it.

 

Sure beats using a grabber on the coupler, done that a few times.
 
Mel
 
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Posted by graymatter on Friday, June 2, 2017 11:39 AM

Ed

That link you shared to The Jack Delano Kodachrome is the best round house picture I have ever seen! Thanks.

Thomas

 

 

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Saturday, June 3, 2017 2:27 PM

At our Club Shows when I'm not running, I park my units just outside the roundhouse, by one of the sheds, or on the Goodman yard module that's always connected to the corner yard.  

Steam locomotives could be parked inside the roundhouse facing forward or backwards.  It varies depending on the road.

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