Why were coaling trestles like this built? It seems to me that digging a hole in the ground and putting in a conveyor system would make more sense. It would require a lot less real estate, it would be a lot easier to push cars through to empty them on the flat instead of pushing them up that steep grade one or two at a time. Not to mention the maintenance part of it all.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Maintenance (epecially in very cold places), ground water too high.
A hole in the ground would fill up with water, snow, and debris. Having a mechanical device in a hole is a maintenance/repair nightmare. (been there, done that)
Push the cars up the trestle, let gravity do the work.
If I had to guess, that trestle had already been erected for 40 years or more by the time this photo was taken. That means reliable electric motors, idlers, and conveyor belts long enough to do the job were not available economically.
I suppose water could be an issue. That is the Pacific Ocean in the background and the land is very low there, however there are lots of pic's of the ash pit and it is considerably lower again. I would think a King tide could be an issue though.
Crandell the photo is dated August 19, 1916. Not quite 40 years old, however your thoughts on the mechanization end of things may correct. Even if it did exist, getting the East to send parts West...... As one civil servant to another, we know how that works.
I think Crandell's point is well-taken. If I had to guess, this pic seems to be maybe 1920ish? Many wood cars, just a few steel ones, no visible autos, which would help date it, suggests before they became ubiquitous.
So when this facility was built, AC power may not have been available. DC might have been via onsite powerplant. But the technology of early electric motors meant either puny and weak or huge and strong. So lspaping a conveyor system on to feed it was likely ahead of it's time.
Another factor could be, even if there was the possibility of an electric conveyor is volume. To fill the bins, an electric motor probably would run the same speed and that would limit how fast it could be refilled. Typically, there is only one dump position, so just one cart dumping at a time. With tracks to the top, refill could be much quicker and multple hoppers could be handled more quickly. In an urben setting like this, rush hours for either the RR or commuters could overwhelm the capacity to keep up for a conveyor and pit.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
There's a whole chapter on this in John Droege's "Freight Terminals and Trains." The NMRA reprinted this 1925 book a few years back. It may be available online directly now if you search for it.
It was noted that coaling trestles work best if they only need to serve two tracks (on on each side), otherwise a conveyor type system would be better. Conveyors systems were in use by then and recommended for serving 3 or more track, in part because they made it easy to blend coal. One drawback to the conveyor was that it could break down, where pushing a hopper or two to the top of the trestle was pretty reliable. It's clear that by 1925, conveyors where in wide use in larger terminals, again pointing the date of construction in this case likely being too early to take advantage of that new-fangled electrickery stuff.
Good stuff Mike, thanks. I wonder how many cars would get pushed up there at a time. It would be cool to see an old movie of that happening.
Brent,
It's a rather small set of pockets for as large as the facility looks. Two car length is all it looks like to me. But notice that the trestle extended beyond the pockets for several more car lengths. Maybe during busy times they spoted a few extra cars so they'd be available simply by rolling them back over the pockets, then dumping them?
I suspect they went up with loaded cars singly, maybe two tops. The Rio Grande had several similar facilities. I seem to recall seeing film of at least one trip up the one that was at Alamosa, but it's hazy, not sure which of the many videos I've seen might have that on it anyway.
Biggest reason was probably the labor saving. Prev solution probably required five or ten guys to shovel coal from a gondola on to a coal dock, then shovel it back into a locomotive tender. This allowed one guy to leverage gravity, and do the work of ten men.
Labor is always a railroad's biggest expense.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
Also the type and depth of bedrock could lead to difficulties with the hole in the ground. Many places, like in Maine, the bedrock is mostly granite and is shallow. It would take a lot of blasting to make a suitably deep hole for a coal pocket. Then there is the question of how to get the coal out, gravity is the coal dealer's friend.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Electrical was used in most homes by 1910 and was very common by 1900 for lighting even. My house was built in 1905 and had some original wiring when bought. Nob and tube is just as safe as romex but like said, you never know about add ins that were done improberly but that goes for romex too. One of the first things I fixed when I bought the property (included many more than my current house) was an ungrounded garbage disposer. Now most ungrounded things really don't carry more of a risk than grounded, but when you add water as in under a sink, that is a whole other mater!
MidlandPacific Biggest reason was probably the labor saving. Prev solution probably required five or ten guys to shovel coal from a gondola on to a coal dock, then shovel it back into a locomotive tender. This allowed one guy to leverage gravity, and do the work of ten men. Labor is always a railroad's biggest expense.
Droege emphasized this point in suggesting that modernization more than paid for itself. The primary example he used was a coaling installation in a northern clime. Management regularly spent $4000 to $5000 on labor to break loose frozen coal, etc during a winter. He pointed out that for roughly $1500 in materials, the bins could have steam lines installed to keep things thawed out, with labor done inhouse during slow times in warmer seasons. Of course, this was a gravity facility.
Droege went into more detail about the differences between a gravity set-up and one with conveyors, but didn't really state that one was superior to the other. They both had advantages and disadvantages, saying each specific case needed to be evaluated for both capital costs and long-term operating costs to decide.
He would know, wouldn't?
Slightly OT, but if you want to read more about John Droege, go to the USDOT's online library, and look for the listing for historic ICC and NTSB wreck investigations. Under "1913," look for the New York, New Haven and Hartford; the specific accident you want is the rear end collision at North Haven, CT, onLabor Day. Superintendent Droege is quoted, prominently and repeatedly. It cannot have been comfortable for him.
mlehmanIt's a rather small set of pockets for as large as the facility looks. Two car length is all it looks like to me. But notice that the trestle extended beyond the pockets for several more car lengths. Maybe during busy times they spoted a few extra cars so they'd be available simply by rolling them back over the pockets, then dumping them?
2 posibly 3 car lengths (1916 would have been 34' 40 or 50 ton hoppers). Also I would wager that the extra space after the coal pockets was room to roll; you would push the loaded cars all the way to the end, then unload them starting with closest car to the locomotive (doing the opposite would result in trying to start loaded hoppers on a grade). It is also possible that they let them roll back down, however an out of control car rolling back down the slope could derail and block access to the roundhouse (look at the location of the access tracks to the round house and note they are parallel to the trestle). Steeper grade versions of this used a winch to pull the string of cars up the grade.
For those who have been to Steamtown in Scranton, PA, that long sloping walkway that leads up to the bridge across the tracks to the mall isn't a handicapped ramp. It's built on the profile of the coaling trestle that used to be there.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with man-powered coaling stations)