I have a 4-track double ended section of track that connects to the mainline. I have never quite figured out a proper use for this section of track. There was space there and I simply filled it and I have used it at various times for staging, small classification yard, siding, whatever. Now, I would like to turn it into a diesel servicing facility. I have a Walthers Cornerstone Back Shop looking for a home, and I am considering placing it right in the center of the 4-track double ended section of track. Locos could enter from either end as the back shop has doors at each end. My question is, would these be prototypical or are back shops typically stub end track structures?
Rich
Alton Junction
Hi, Rich
From many of the maps and aerial photos of large shops I've seen, almost always the "back shop" was a stub-ended affair. NYC's Collinwood shops had two buildings for heavy repair and were actually 90° to each other.
At both buildings there was a turntable that led to the transfer table to get the locomotiven into the shop.
Once inside the overhead crane could move locomotives around as needed for the various phases of work.
That is not to say that a building like yours couldn't be used for running repairs or light maintenance.
Again, at Collinwood there was the "P1a Shed" which was built in 1930 for the electric locomotives that eventually were sent to New York City. Today that double-ended facility is used for diesel running repairs. {edit: since closed!}
I suggest you go ahead and use your through shop building but call it a running repair "shed" or nick-name it for something of local color.
Here's a Conrail film I posted a few years ago giving a quick look into Altoona's Juniata shop.
Have Fun, Ed
Walthers show a backshop (933-3039) and a railroad shop (933-2970). If you're referring to the former, I believe it's way too small--it's only about a foot long--way too teeny. I think I'd get two for greater length. Keep in mind that the back shop is not for storage. There has to be room for men to walk around, and parts to be moved. And then there's the tools.
I think whether it was built as a double ended or single ended building would depend on the railroad's uses and desire. I see the "other" end as some short overflow or temporary storage tracks.
I'd try to go double ended, myself. That's because of flexibility of use and the greater potential for scenery and detail at the "other" end. Yeah, definitely double ended.
I had thought, from a photo, that the kit was single ended. If it's single ended, you'd have to come up with a "blank" wall.
Ed
I think both Walthers kits can be set up to be double ended. Seems to me they made one wider and shorter and another longer and narrower but with similar components so you could add on in either direction. They also have the "glass house" modern shop that I would have prefered but it wasn't available when I incorporated this one.
Today they call it a "car Shop"
https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3040
[edit:] Now my memory is messing with me — I seem to recall Walthers offering a four-bay structure that they called a "backshop" but I can not seem to find it now?
Here's a view inside my running repair shop which has one through track but all three could be if desired.
This is two kits spliced together lengthwise but they can be multiplied in any direction.
Lots of ideas here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=walthers+locomotive+shop&sa=X&biw=1344&bih=770&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwiO64-C2tnKAhUCzz4KHROjDcUQsAQIHA
Enjoy, Ed
7j43k Walthers show a backshop (933-3039) and a railroad shop (933-2970). If you're referring to the former, I believe it's way too small--it's only about a foot long--way too teeny. I think I'd get two for greater length. Keep in mind that the back shop is not for storage. There has to be room for men to walk around, and parts to be moved. And then there's the tools.
https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3039
The Railroad Shop is the Back Shop with an attached annex.
https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2970
There is also a Car Shop which I have elsewhere on the layout.
A problem I see with using the 933-3039 as a double ended building is that there's no place for the larger tools and workbenches and.......
The front and back would have tracks going through the area, and the side walls look awfully close to the locos.
The problem also happens if you build a single kit with doors on one end. Once you array the tools and benches and racks along the back of the building, you'll only get a switcher to fit.
Thinkin' on it, I'd only run one or two tracks through the back. And the other(s) I would stop far short of the back wall so as to supply a work area for your employees. This is based on a "double kit". I think the building will then be two feet long, which is nice and roomy. And the dead end track(s) could stop short by maybe 10 inches or so, and provide that work area.
I took some measurements. The back shop is 9" wide and 12" long.
My 4-track section is a double ended ladder with Atlas Custom Line #6 turnouts. The longest track is 12', then 10', and two 8' lengths.
So, lots of room to add two back shops end to end.
Neat.
A thought:
Since the building is 3 track, I'd consider putting it on the 8 + 8 + 10 tracks. And keep the long one for........whatever. In fact, I'd consider putting a crossover between the 10 and the 12 after the building, so that you can run around it (I'm assuming single ended tracks, here). I'd allow at least a foot of clear track behind the building before the crossover.
If you have all 3 tracks running through, you'll have to add some space for the shop area. And then there's all the "other" stuff. Like an air compressor shed, or flammable storage shed, or parts storage shed. Whole lotta sheds goin' on!
7j43k Since the building is 3 track, I'd consider putting it on the 8 + 8 + 10 tracks. And keep the long one for........whatever. In fact, I'd consider putting a crossover between the 10 and the 12 after the building, so that you can run around it (I'm assuming single ended tracks, here). I'd allow at least a foot of clear track behind the building before the crossover. If you have all 3 tracks running through, you'll have to add some space for the shop area. And then there's all the "other" stuff. Like an air compressor shed, or flammable storage shed, or parts storage shed. Whole lotta sheds goin' on! Ed
I have a 4-track double ended section of track that connects to the mainline. I have never quite figured out a proper use for this section of track. There was space there and I simply filled it and I have used it at various times for staging, small classification yard, siding, whatever. Now, I would like to turn it into a diesel servicing facility.
Questions to consider.
Do you want a service track or a backshop? They aren't the same thing. A service track is a "gas station" for locomotives. A back shop is a heavy repair shop. Most engines going into a service track, come in, get serviced and then go back out to a train (with exceptions) in a relatively short time (hours). A back shop has most of the engines come in dead, the inbound power sets come to the service track, the bad order units are cut out and then moved to the back shop as the back shop has room. Units wil be in the back shop for days (weeks). When the units are pulled from the backshop they are taken back to the service track and cut into consists there.
A back shop is normally connected to the service track rather than the main track.
A service track has two general parts, the supplies and inspections/minor repairs. The supplies, fuels, oil, sand water are not usually added in an enclosed building, they are most commonly down outside, possibly under an open shed. Running inspections and light repairs may be done in a building or covered area.
Having worked in and around diesel facilities with both service tracks and backshops, I'm not a big fan of backshops on a model railroad. So I admit I'm biased.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Dave, this is great info, and I sure appreciate it.
I must admit, I have little idea of what a back shop is and how it is used on the prototype. Based upon your description, I am more inclined to use it for service than for heavy repair.
My layout basically models a large downtown passenger station, coach yard, freight yard and engine servicing facilities. It is a highly urban environment for the most part. So, as I built the layout (in stages), I picked structures like a roundhouse, a turntable, a car shop, a back shop.
One part of my layout features a relatively large coach yard, loosely simulating the ATSF coach yard in Chicago. That coach yard had some large structures similar to the back shop. Here is a link to a photo of the ATSF yard with a back shop like structure.
https://www.google.com/search?q=atsf+coach+yard+chicago&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS475&espv=2&biw=1440&bih=811&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinzu_zutvKAhXKVT4KHQuQDSQQ_AUICCgD&dpr=1#imgrc=239Hy-NKqd3XIM%3A
I assume that this was used for servicing rather than heavy repair. However, heavy repair might not be out of the question since Chicago was the eastern terminus of the ATSF.
I think there are several levels of shopping for locos. As opposed to just service tracks and a backshop. For example, Klamath Falls in the old days.
Here (I hope) is an aerial shot of the more-or-less present day location of the former shop building:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Klamath+Falls,+OR/@42.1898776,-121.7621341,20z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x54c8d45968f20ee3:0xf48d7ff528b99726
You can see that some tracks ran through and some stopped short. And that there was an area without internal tracks. I don't have a photo of the old building to post, but it was a wood sheathed building. There were 6 tracks in the building. Only the center two had room for an overhead traveling crane. Note that three tracks ran through the building. And that two of the remaining only went halfway through.
This was definitely not a backshop. Nor was it just a service area. Light to (perhaps) medium maintenance was performed in the building. The nearest true backshop was Hillyard, where locomotives were repaired and, on occasion, built (GN's giant Mikes, the O-8's, for example).
I would say that the facilities as shown in the location referenced above DO act as service tracks these days. But in the "olden" days, there was a lot more happening.
Rich,
Selkirk, NY on CSX: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5600646,-73.8454235,300m/data=!3m1!1e3
Some tracks are dual ended, some are stub. I have some photos taken from that bridge that I'll have to dig through. The last time I was there the bridge was being torn down (liability, it has been closed to vehicular traffic for several years now, and appeared to be somewhat falling apart, among other issues).
Deerfield Yard (on PAS):
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5712029,-72.5658149,300m/data=!3m1!1e3
My profile photo was taken from a helicopter at this location.
Waterville, ME on Pan AM (formerly MEC)
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.5674373,-69.6157285,580m/data=!3m1!1e3
Back shops and car shops on the B&O Washington, IN:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6567047,-87.1967061,318m/data=!3
Engine shops @ Queensgate Yard, Cincinnati, OH.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1275866,-84.5416907,316m/data=!3m1!1e3
Norfolk Southern shops in Altoona, PA
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5329319,-78.3799381,1239m/data=!3m1!1e3
Wow, great snapshots of several facilities. Thanks for posting!
One thing to note is that those facilities do not generally have access to main track, some don't even have access to the yard, the only way to get into the shop is using a transfer table.
dehusman One thing to note is that those facilities do not generally have access to main track, some don't even have access to the yard, the only way to get into the shop is using a transfer table.
It sounds like maybe what you need isn't a heavy-repair back shop as much as a 'squarehouse' diesel house. When railroads first bought diesels, they usually kept them in a roundhouse along with their steam engines. By the late forties, many railroads were building separate diesel houses for every-day servicing of their new diesel fleet. Normally these would be long enough that an A-B-B-A set of F units could be inside without needing to be broken up. (Generally only an A-B or A-A set of F's would fit on a turntable or in a roundhouse stall.)
Often just outside the doors there would be an area for fueling and sanding the engines.