SP Lark (SF to LA)

[SP4449]

Looking for:
Period of time the train ran.
Consist including motive power.
The HO cars (Athearn, Rivarossi, Walthers, etc.) that closely represent the prototype.

[Anonymous]

There is a book that i have photocopied called "The SP in L.A. 1873-1996". In 1946 SPdid a test run with diesel # 6002,dressed in golden state livery(these were 4-unit,EMD F-3 sets,that were painted black,with the prows ornamented by bands of silver,orange and red) that lead the LARK to LA. From what the b/w pic shows,it appears that it had a consist of 1940 passenger cars. I'm thinking that it may have been a traditional passenger train.I know of 2 other books that are at my library that have nothing but passenger trains and where they are located,and as to what the consist of the train was. I will try to get these books and look for the exact info. If at all, i will copy the pages and send then to you if you would like.[:)]
Andrew

[passengerfan]

SP LARK inaugurated July 10, 1941 Between Los Angeles and San Francisco/Oakland nightly each direction. Power was Daylight painted GS-4 Locomotives. Each train set consisted of a Baggage Car, Baggage 30'Railway Post Car, 10/5 Sleeper,10/5 Sleeper, 10/5 Sleeper,10/5 Sleeper, 13DBR Sleeper, 13DBR Sleeper, 4-4-2 Sleeper, 3unit articulated Lark Club consisting of Dorm/Kitchen unit-48-Seat dining Room Unit, 48-seat Tavern Lounge Unit, 4-4-2 Sleeper, 4-4-2 Sleeper, 13DBR Sleeper, 13DBR Sleeper, 10/5 Sleeper, 1-Cpt, 1-DR 2DBR Buffet Observation. The last two cars in each consist were the Oakland Lark operating between Oakland and San Jose before joiuning the main train from San Francisco. Lark lost all room status during war when 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom sleeping cars added to consists two to each train one Oakland one San Francisco. Lark dieselized about 1955 with EMD E units for power painted Daylight colors. The train itself operated in two tone gray scheme. Good luck finding similar cars from model manufacturers am not familiar with who manufactures what.

[Anonymous]

By 1960's train was repainted silver/red bands and by its demise in 1967, ran with a couple of sleepers, a cafe-lounge off the Sunset, a couple of coaches and occasionally a Russellburger car. And it was always "sold out", according to SP--in fact, in those days it ran generally empty, but that's what they told the prospective pax when the SP agent refused to sell them a ticket so it WOULD run that way. The SP shenanigans concerning the Lark and Sunset were a substantial component of the justification given in support for the formation of RAILPAX/Amtrak, and prompted the famous quotation from 1950's/60's humorist/celebrity Stan Freberg at the CA hearings regarding the "steak" served on a paper plate in the Lark's cafe-lounge ("diner") that "the only thing tougher than that steak is the heart of a Southern Pacific Ticket Agent".

[Anonymous]

The only inexpensive models that you will find in plastic are the 10-5 and 4-4-2 sleepers by Walthers. All other cars are strictly SP and can only be found in brass or brass car sides.
Ch

[twhite]

PSNGRTRN is right, the Lark will be difficult to model prototypically in anything besides custom brass imports. If you don't mind 'shorties' and want to make up a consist that would sort of approximate the train, Con-Cor made passenger cars in the "Lark" color scheme. I think there was an RPO, Baggage, Coach, Sleeper and Observation. There was also a Vista-Dome, but SP never had vista-domes, except for a couple of home-built 3/4 domes that they used on their San Joaquin and later Shasta Daylights. I don't know whether or not Con-cor still markets the cars today, but you might be able to pick up some at shows or swap-meets. Again, let me re-iterate that this would only APPROXIMATE the train, not duplicate it. Rode it from SF to LA once back in the 'fifties, before SP started turing passengers away. It was quite a train.

[Anonymous]

This may be only marginally helpful, but maybe it will serve to stir someone's memory and fill in the blank. About 20 years ago there was a company that marketed, in HO, car kits for a lot of the SP equipment, including the 3-unit and 2-unit cars. These had extruded aluminum roofs and lower body shells, with a prepainted plastic window strip, and no trucks. I know they had the Daylight, Sunbeam and Californian, and I could swear they had the Lark 3-unit car. That's the good news. The bad news is........I CAN'T REMEMBER THE BRAND NAME!! Maybe someone else remembers. I would think some of these might be available at sales, etc.

[Anonymous]

Limited Editions made the aluminum & plastic kits. They can be found on eBay from time to time. They made nice models, but weren't for beginners.

[jimrice4449]

a correction of andrew's reply is called for. The SP 6002 was an EMD E-7 3 unit set. One of three (6000-6002) SP recieved painted in the red and silver Golden State livery. in the same order they recieved 2 sets painted in Daylight. The three Golden State sets were soon redone in Daylight but befroe that they were run on Coast trains. I don't know what they exact procedure was but they would come in on the Golden State, run up to SF and return to go east from LA on the Golden Stae. I've seen pictures of them on the Noon Daylight (Sbound) and on the Lark (also Sbound)
Hiawatha

[markpierce]

Challenger Imports plan to come out with a late 1950s version of the Lark. The model, probably consisting of 10 or so cars, sans locomotives, will cost several thousand dollars

[Anonymous]

If you were interested in doing a version of the Lark representing its consist during the period Oct. 1, 1967 (when Railway Post Office service ended) to April 7, 1968 (date of last run), you could do a plausible train with:

An F7A-B diesel in the scarlet & gray paint scheme (available from Athearn or Intermountain).

A Rivarossi streamlined baggage car standing in for an SP "economy" baggage car. An undecorated car (#635-6603 painted Lark Dark Gray and lettered with Microscale or Champ decals) would be the easiest approach.

A Budd 10-6 sleeper (Walthers #932-6353 is closest).

(Additional sleepers could be a Walthers #932-6705 4-4-2 sleeper and/ or a #932-6745 10-5 sleeper)(these cars were infrequently used during the time in question--but they're accurate for SP).

A Budd diner-lounge (The Walthers #932-6333 grill-diner is fairly close--but note that this model in SP paint has been discontinued and sold out at Walthers).

A Pullman-Standard 52-seat coach (Walthers #932-6765 in SP paint) is right on the money for an ex-C&NW coach used on SP.

A Rivarossi 44-seat ACF coach (Walthers #635-6707 in SP simulated stainless steel and scarlet paint) also is right on the money for the other style of ex-C&NW coach used on SP.

This won't be a glamorous Lark, but it's about as close as you're going to get without buying brass.

--John

[SP4449]

I appreciate the information in all the responses. I didn't know if it would be a do-able project. I was looking for a passenger train that had an unusual look to seperate it from all the well known and modeled passenger trains. I lived on the good old SP in San Luis Obispo for some years and was able to watch train 98 and 99 going through town and at times, watch the meeting of both at Questa Siding on the hill north of town. The mail train that came early in the morning might be a possible project.

[Anonymous]

You're feeling the frustration of many modelers who would like to create accurate models of passenger trains. We can't because, to date, our manufacturers have thought only in terms of individual cars. They think we'll be satisfied if we can get appropriate types of cars, and won't mind that the prototypes never would have appeared together at one time in any one train.

Rivarossi made state-of-the-art heavyweight cars, but here are the prototypes they gave us:

--a one-of-a-kind Pennsy RPO-storage car (and marketed with the streamlined cars)
--a GN baggage-RPO
--a B&O baggage car
--a Santa Fe baggage-rider car found only on mail & express trains
--a Southern coach of unusual design
--a Santa Fe diner
--a Pullman 12-1 sleeper (best car of the lot, and the most common sleeping car ever)
--a Pullman duplex room sleeper (of which only 2 prototype cars were ever built, and were pretty much limited to service on the Pennsy).
--a Santa Fe cafe-parlor-observation of unique design.

And here's what we have in the brand-new Walthers streamlined Budd cars:

--a Santa Fe RPO
--a Santa Fe baggage car
--an NYC baggage-dorm (all of which were retired before the PC merger)
--a Santa Fe coach
--a Southern coach
--an NYC grill-diner
--a Pennsy parlor car (misidentified as a "lounge" car, but containing a correct parlor car interior).
--an NP slumbercoach
--a UP 10-6 sleeper
--a Santa Fe 10-6 sleeper
--a Seaboard tavern-observation

With this dog's breakfast you can't even accurately model a rainbow-era Amtrak train.

[Anonymous]

Fiverings, you forget that the SP had a larger fleet of Pullman cars than Budd.
Pullman cars that will work from Walthers would be the smooth sided 4-4-2 sleeper and the former C&O/CNW 52 seat coach. Concor made a 72' smoothside baggage that will fit in much better than the Rivarossi which is a UP prototype.
Ch

[Anonymous]

I did specifically mention the Walthers 4-4-2 and the 52-seat P-S coach (with reference to those models, by SKU number in SP paint and lettering). I didn't list the Con-Cor baggage car. To me, those big ol' windows say "Canadian National" too loud, but I'll admit it also is a reasonable stand-in for an SP economy baggage.

[SP4449]

Has anyone noticed the offerings from Branchline Trains - Blueprint Series, Pullman sleeper cars, advertised on page 21 of the new MRR? How would one use these offerings for a Lark representation? I really appreciate all the posts above. I found a lot of valuable information in them. The advertisement mentioned brought this subject back to mind.

[Anonymous]

With the exception of its baggage and RPO cars, the Lark was completely streamlined by the summer of 1941. The heavyweight sleepers which had been assigned went back to the Pullman pool or to secondary trains.

Of the heavyweight Pullman cars offered by Branchline, the 14 section, 12-1 and 10-1-2 cars were used on the Lark before it was streamlined. During the 1930s, the train also carried 8 sec-5 DB, 14 single-room, 10 sec-cafe and 3 SB-2Comp-1 DR-solarium cars and 10 sec-4 "private sec" cars. In adddition, heavyweight headend, dining and full lounge cars were assigned to the train.

[spjimg]

MHP Made a lot of passenger cars from tinplate steel that were soldered together; came with wood [Northeastern] roofs and floors, and were easy to install interior detail. At one time they made all the cars for the Lark, including the triple unit and boattail, except for the two head-end cars. MHP also made all the cars for the Daylight, the Cascade, and other SP trains, as well as other roads. They are no longer being manufactured, but you may be able to find some. The kits originally sold for around $10/car.

[CAZEPHYR]

markpierce

Challenger Imports plan to come out with a late 1950s version of the Lark. The model, probably consisting of 10 or so cars, sans locomotives, will cost several thousand dollars

The Lark has been made in brass by at least one importer.   Sadly, Challenger Imports went out of business about four years ago. 

CZ

[markpierce]

The good news is that Coach Yard will be coming out with the 1946 version of the Lark.  Supposedly, production will be this year.  Make reservations soon if you want the trains or some of the cars.  CY stuff  can be over-reserved, so the earlier you reserve the more likely you'll get it.  Even Caboose Hobbies, where I reserved some of the heavyweight SP cars three years ago, wasn't able to secure them for me.

Mark

[James Ervin]

I've read all of the replies and they all offer great information.  I model the SP myself and will add, that most of the car on the "Lark" are the same as the "Cascade and were all originally by Pullman.  Most of the car can be found at Union Station Products.   These will be exact car side and must be built.  Modeling skills are needed, but it will be a great adventure.  The "E" unit were tried in the LA pool north for a while and then move to the east for the Golden State and Sunset Limited for two reason.  1) No dynamics, 2) They didn't pull worth a darn in the hill from the bay area north.  Thats why SP bought PA's.  Hope this helps 

[markpierce]

During the steam era, the streamlined Lark was powered by a 4-8-4.  In 1947, three-unit EMD E units were used.  When SP began receiving Alco P locos, they began to be integrated into the train.  Later on, EMD F steam-boilered units were used.  The result was some very interesting motive power consists.  Here are examples:

Train 76, February 1, 1961: PA2, E7B, PB2, PB2

Train 76, July 29, 1961: E9A, E7B, E9A

Train 75, December 23, 1961: PA2, PB2, E7B, E7A

Train 76, March 4, 1962: E9A, E7B, PA2

Train 76, March 3, 1962: PA1, E7B, GP9

Train 76, April 29, 1965: F7A (no steam), F7B, F7B, F7B

Train 76, January 1, 1966: FP7, F7B, F7B, F7B, FP7

[markpierce]

James Ervin

 The "E" unit were tried in the LA pool north for a while and then move to the east for the Golden State and Sunset Limited for two reason.  1) No dynamics, 2) They didn't pull worth a darn in the hill from the bay area north.  Thats why SP bought PA's.  Hope this helps 

SP's later E units (E8 and E9) came equipped with dynamic brakes.  The E9As even came originally equipped with MU hoses on the front!