Hi,
Way, way back, when I was a bit younger, I seem to recall that yard ballast and cinders in the Chicago 1940-1950s steam era, were a mix of various grays, browns, blacks, with a small dash of yellow and reds here and there ,for an overall medium to dark grayish color. So, I was quite surprised when I bought the Woodland Scenics (W/S) HO fine cinder ballast that it was just about a pure black, almost like India ink. When I put the cinders down alongside my mainline W/S gray blend ballast as I saw suggested for a steam era layout, it looks even blacker!
Questions:
Am I misremembering the real color of cinders I saw just as I tend to misremember a lot these days?
Is this color black of the W/S cinders really what cinders are supposed to look like?Does anyone use the cinders out of the W/S box, so to speak. I hope that is the case as I really hesitate to start custom mixing ballast. Tried it before for mainline ballast and never could get the right mixtures.
Would the cinders look better with some browns and grays mixed in? Please don't suggest whatever looks best to me as I can't even match a tie with a colored shirt LOL. So, just about anyone can do scenery colors so much better than I can.
I have a lot of mainline and yard area to use cinders on and I would hate to use the wrong color. If it matters, my overall scenery ground color is more like the west/south west -- sand colored.
Of course, I tried the W/S site and they are of no help whatsoever -- their ballast comments is limited to a 24 second video of heavily drenching the track and buff ballast with their W/S glue. I tried the internet but too much comes back that just isn't what I am looking for.
Thank you for any guidance you can give here. Ken
I have no recollections or history on which to fall back for this response, but I have seen many colour photos from that era. It seems to me that the predominant colour is a brownish black, with some variation toward a more ruddy colour. I don't know if 'fresh' cinders spread looked one way and in time looked markedly different, say when oxidized even further or subjected to the effects of acid rain.
Personally, I would get really fine sand and spread it and then apply acrylic Burnt Umber with a tiny part-drop of red. Then, oversprinkle, or pepper it, with a bit of the W/S stuff.
Crandell
Ken,
Our memories are traveling the same track, as I remember cinders more grey than black. There were black one's mixed in, but the WS cinders look too dark over-all to me. I'm still a ways off from starting work on my service yard area, but I have definately wondered about the same thing.
Bob
I think you r memory is OK. Our garage had a cinders from local factories for the floor. A shiney charcoal gray with some bronze, dark browns, with a few reds and orange. I think fresh cinders do have a more gray look, as they still have quite a bit of ash mixed in. As the cinders weather the ash sifts or is washed down, leaving the darker colors.
I do have some WS cinders, but have not looked at them closely. Came in a bunch of stuff I got at a close-out sale.
Think I would take a little of it and stir in a few drops of bronze paint. Another small amount and mix in a little of the other colors that have been mentioned. Add a little of it to some of the original and see what different mixes look like.
Good luck,
Richard
Cinders are the remains of coal after it has been burned. So the color would depend on what kind of coal was used and how it was burned. Coal can be made to burn hotter by the use of induction fans to run more air across the fire. This in turn would burn the coal differently. Coal also will have impurities in it that will affect how it burns, and many put additives in with their coal.
We buy stoker coal (26 tons at a time) which has been treated with a wax for easier combustion and to which we also add some sort of a powdered additive.
The worst coal that we have ever used was what was salvaged from a train wreck. It had all sorts of iron and stones in it. The salvage company used magnets to clean it, but I'm not sure if they were even turned on. We went through a lot of shear pins with that stuff. We woke up many mornings that year to a fire that went out.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
They used volcanic cinders in northern Arizona and there were a reddish color. Just ask anyone that's driven through Flagstaff in the winter.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Hi!
Like soil, rock, and landscape, cinders are known to have many tints.
As a youngster spending time on the C&NW tracks in Chicago and IC tracks in southern Illinois during mid 50s steam operations, I saw a lot of cinders. Most were shades of dark grey and brown, but other colors were there - particularly "reds". As I understand, these other colors were the result of various mineral impurities in the coal.
I also had the dubious "honor" of cleaning out coal stoves in Chicago and southern Illinois and shoveled my share of cinders. Again, the colors were primarily shades of grey/brown, but there were reds, and yellows, and other unexpected colors to be found.
So to the OP, I saw "your memory is just fine". But for purposes of our model RRs, I think cinders of a dark grey/black/brown are very appropriate. Remember, RR properties "back then" were not pretty sights - as most everything was covered with dirt and grime and soot.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
The WS cinder is far too "black". I would agree w/ Selector's advice as to using fine sand and weather/ staining. Even if you only use the "Play sand" as a base, stain w/ washes to darken ( thinned acylics or even powdered Tempra), the top dress w/ various products to get the look you want. The small bagged Scenery products can get very costly, especially on a large area. One club member experimented w/ this on one of our largest yards. The base is play sand, dyed close to color, then topped w/ cinder, fine ballast and dirt. Additional weathering on the final. He initially tried coloring w/ washes of solvent paints, Acylics will act better especially if diluted w/ water/ alcohol.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Unless you are modeling strickly steam age yards additional stone preferably small driveway stone would have been added to and on top of the cinders so this in turn would allow you use fine ballast of your choice if you are modeling HO. Fine was used of course so that the traimen could easily walk on it.
Also as has been said just plain dirt would be part of the mix along with spilled contents from hoppers if you wish.
Not being a rivet counter and not having any knowledgeable modlers around to second guess me I mix the ballast up to what pleases my eye.
Don't Ever Give Up
We probably shouldn't forget John Allen's old rule about using a straight black paint on locomotives: a dead black looks unrealistic on a layout. The appearance is affected by daylight, haze in the air, and the condition of the paint. Similar conditions apply to scenic elements.
Dan
My initial post gets posted but keeps keeps on disappearing from all the other posts in my displays. Not sure why that is happening. Yet I can go to my posts under my name and it is there along with all the comment replies. So at least it must not disappear for those who commented. Very mysterious.
Anyway, just want to say thank you to all who replied. Sure am glad the memory really didn't fail me.
The more I look at those black cinders, the less I like it. Why do they even make it that deep black color? I'll try some of your really good suggestions with colored washes, sand, etc. and see if I can make it look better.
Be interesting to see if this post actually gets posted and stays there for awhile.Sure hope this gets posted. Thanks again. Ken