I am building a freelanced 1950's era eastern railroad. At the throat of the main yard I would like to place a yard tower. Would the turnouts in this area normally be hand thrown or part of a interlocked system contolled from the tower?
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The only reason for having a tower is to control the adjacent switches and signals. If the turnout points were hand thrown, the tower would be either boarded up or a bare foundation.
In the 1950s, if the yard was busy enough, the switch points would be moved by electric or pneumatic machines, interlocked with dwarf (on the classification tracks) and full-size signals, and the locomotives would move on signal indication authority. Earlier, the switch points would be mechanically linked to the interlocking frame in the tower by what looked like piping along the ends of the ties. The latter was pre-power-switch technology, and modeling it accurately can be quite an adventure.
My prototype used manual interlocking, pipe-connected point linkages and cable operated lower quadrant semaphores on some secondary routes into the 1960s. The levers weren't in towers. They were on the station platforms adjacent to the ticket offices, operated by the station agents.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
tomikawaTT The only reason for having a tower is to control the adjacent switches and signals. If the turnout points were hand thrown, the tower would be either boarded up or a bare foundation. ...... Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
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Not necessarily. Even when the switches are manual there are advantages for the yardmaster's desk to be up high where he can actually see what is happening. He still has to coordinate activity where several yard jobs are working, or between a yard job and arriving/departing trains. A quick glance out the window to confirm track W4 is clear is much better than hoping the yard crew didn't put a cut of cars in there 3 hours ago and forgot to report it. Particularly if space was at a premium it made sense to build up, and place the yard coordinator where he can monitor activity. But many yards were not busy enough to warrant a yardmaster's position so towers are not actually very common.
quote user="tomikawaTT"]
In the 1950s, if the yard was busy enough, the switch points would be moved by electric or pneumatic machines, interlocked with dwarf (on the classification tracks) and full-size signals, and the locomotives would move on signal indication authority.
[/quote]
My belief is that the turnouts and crossovers connecting to the main line might be controlled in this way, but ones on a switching lead used routinely for flat switching would always be manual. Remotely controlled switches will be far too inefficient. Each movement would have to back clear of a signal and wait for the tower operator to throw the switch before accessing another yard track. With manual switches, especially if dropping cars, as soon as the cut is clear of the points they can be thrown and the next move started.
John
Actually a switchtender could line the switches since a yard tower isn't a interlocking tower.
It is not the job of the yardmaster to line trains in or out of the yard-that falls under a Union job class and job qualification.This is a area of railroading modelers lack understanding..
Most "yard towers" are actually yard offices located on the ground..Also do not confuse a hump tower as being a yard office since it controls the retarders and switches for the bowl.
Also it may require the head brakeman of the arriving or departing train to line the arrival/departure track switches of course in modern times the conductor would do that.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
[quote user="atcguy"]
DSO17 Writes:
If by "yard tower" you mean an elevated yardmaster's office, the ideal location would probably be to the left of the caboose track where the classification track switches are. These switches would usually be hand thrown.
If you want an interlocking tower, the ideal location might be near the crossover from the main to the siding. If the siding is to be signaled, you would need a a signal to get out of the R/D yard and another signal to get from the shifting lead to the siding. All the switches in the interlocking would be controlled by the operator (called a towerman on some roads).
My thought would be that a "yard tower" would be more likely in a hump yard, controlling the flow of cars over the hump and down to the yard tracks. I suppose you could have a situation where a yard was close enough to a mainline that you would have an interlocking tower controlling the connection between the yard and the mainline??
wjstix My thought would be that a "yard tower" would be more likely in a hump yard, controlling the flow of cars over the hump and down to the yard tracks. I suppose you could have a situation where a yard was close enough to a mainline that you would have an interlocking tower controlling the connection between the yard and the mainline??
In that case it would be easier and cheaper to use a switchtender since it requires a shanty and not a complete interlocking plant.
Of course there are exceptions especially around larger terminals in major cities that sees lots of trains movement in 24 hours.Of course we are now talking about arrival and departure yards not 1 or 2 tracks.
These would be interlocking towers and not "yard towers".
Thanks for the quick replies. It seems a interlocking plant would not be appropriate for this location. My idea was to use a AMB #702 interlocking tower to oversee the yard throat. Would signals be used in this area to control movements in and out of the siding and arrival tracks?
atcguy Thanks for the quick replies. It seems a interlocking plant would not be appropriate for this location. My idea was to use a AMB #702 interlocking tower to oversee the yard throat. Would signals be used in this area to control movements in and out of the siding and arrival tracks?
If signals are use then they would be dwarf signals but,that can vary from railroad to railroad.
Usually it was done by crank phone-these were located throughout the yard usually by the switch..The head brakeman or conductor would call the tower and advise he( example: Morgan,train 322 engine 7222 DY 6) was ready to depart.At that time the operator or switch tender would line the needed switches.
An interlocking would be appropriate for the main and siding. You could use high signals on the main; high or dwarf signals on the siding; and dwarf signals to get out of the R/D tracks and from the lead to the siding.
Your sketch in the OP actually looks like a very much simplified mirror-image of the track arrangement at the south end of Conrail's Bayview Yard in Baltimore MD. Amtrak's BAY tower on the west side of the mains controlled the mainline interlocking and Conrail's Bayview South End yardmaster was in a "yard tower" on the east side at the class track switches (which were all hand thrown). The yardmaster used telephone, radio, and talkback speakers to run the yard. Back in the day it was a busy place.
Read the following..It may give you a idea.
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/towers/Neilston%20Tower.htm
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/towers/US%20Tower.htm
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/towers/CW%20Tower.htm
As Brakie, et al, have said if there was a tower there it would not be an interlocking tower, just a yardmaster's tower. If it was an interlocking, most likely the only two switches controled would be the main track to the siding and the siding to the main track. There really wouldn't be any point to that.
Normally there are not signals in yard tracks (other than targets on switch stands).
You haven't really said but if there aren't signals on the main track, there probably won't be any signals in the yard. Even if its ABS there may not be any signals in the siding, there may be only a signal or signals on the main track beyond the points of the main track switch. All the movements in the yard and siding have to be made at speeds which will permit stopping short of things, including improperly lined switches, with a max speed somewhere in the 10-20 mph range (depending on era and railroad) because they are tracks other than main tracks. So there is no advantage to having signals, its not going to gain you any speed or change the manner in which the trains operate.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
You could also use #709. Rather than an interlocking you need big 3 or 4 " pneumatic tubes on pole lines radiating out of the tower to the switch shanties so the yardmaster can send lists to the switch crews and vice versa. Think drive through lanes at banks, only the tubes are hundreds of feet long. Messages and lists (and the occaisional cat, rat or snake) would be loaded in the carrier and shot through the tube to the switchman's shanty or from the shanty back to the yardmaster. There should be a wind sock on on a pole near the tower and if its post 1950's a radio antenna on the tower, if its post 1970's an AC unit in a window.
The tower would have a big desk for the yardmaster with his clerks at desks behind him. He might have the car foreman up there too. He would have radios or computers on the desks if era appropriate and lots of pigeonhole racks There would be a watercooler and heater in the room. The top half of the windows would have shades on them or green or reflective film (modern era) to keep out glare and heat. At the base of the tower would be lots of old lists, a couple water cans and coal bin (pre 1950's) or an oil tank (post WW2) to fuel the heater. The first floor would have a bathroom, lockers, clerks if they weren't on the 2nd floor and a storage room for supplies.
Dave:
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Usually the YM would have a small office-at least the offices I been he had one.Add a coffee pot,bulletin board,several phones and dirty wooden floors..
Also I will mention again the majority of the yard offices was located on the ground-not in towers.Also many had a break/lunch room for the yard crew..Some had pop and coffee vending machines.
Thanks for the links to the Columbus towers. It looks like those examples will work fine. I appreciate all the responses. I believe the idea of switchtenders with some limited signalling is what I was looking for.
BRAKIE atcguy: Thanks for the quick replies. It seems a interlocking plant would not be appropriate for this location. My idea was to use a AMB #702 interlocking tower to oversee the yard throat. Would signals be used in this area to control movements in and out of the siding and arrival tracks? If signals are use then they would be dwarf signals but,that can vary from railroad to railroad. Usually it was done by crank phone-these were located throughout the yard usually by the switch..The head brakeman or conductor would call the tower and advise he( example: Morgan,train 322 engine 7222 DY 6) was ready to depart.At that time the operator or switch tender would line the needed switches.
atcguy: Thanks for the quick replies. It seems a interlocking plant would not be appropriate for this location. My idea was to use a AMB #702 interlocking tower to oversee the yard throat. Would signals be used in this area to control movements in and out of the siding and arrival tracks?
A few yards back then (1950) had a loudspeaker system, where the yardmaster or whoever could announce instructions as to what was to be done. I think the loudspeaker poles had a switch and a microphone set up so the guys in the yard could talk back if necessary. St.Paul Union Depot had a system like that I know.
Now with sound becoming so common on layouts, it might be an interesting feature to add.
Stix,Yup as long as they don't forget the echo.Those yard speakers lasted into the 60s on the PRR in Columbus..
The talkback speakers lasted into the early 1980s at a couple of Conrail locations.
As Stix noted, it would make for an interesting sound feature on a model railroad, but if the dialogue on the speakers was realistic, it might be better to turn it off when children were present.
BRAKIE Usually the YM would have a small office-at least the offices I been he had one.Add a coffee pot,bulletin board,several phones and dirty wooden floors.. Also I will mention again the majority of the yard offices was located on the ground-not in towers.Also many had a break/lunch room for the yard crew..Some had pop and coffee vending machines.
I would concur that many yardmasters I've seen had offices on the ground floor. Most of the yardmaster towers have been built since the 1960's and are metal framed, brick or concrete. By the 1980's-1990's in the west, most of the places on the UP that still had yardmasters were yards that had been rebuilt so they had yardmaster towers (Memphis, El Paso, Dupo, Salt Lake City, Ogden, N Platte, Proviso, Houston, Avondale, LA, Ft Worth, Council Bluffs, etc.), But many moons ago the yardmasters weren't necessarily in towers.
Just like dispatchers and the mainline, yardmasters don't have to physically see the yard to manage it.
Dave,PRR's Pennor Yard yard office had a break room complete with several vending machines.The yard office was upstairs.Kinda look like this but,not as tall.
http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalekits/id120.html
Here is a photo of what was exclusively a yard office, west of Toronto Union Station. It was a CNR structure; I am not sure whether the occupants were just concerned with area freight operations or if they had some involvement with operations at the coach yard on the opposite side of the pair of Toronto Terminals Railway main tracks. Entry to the yards was handled by a separate tower controlling operations on the TTR (directing switchtenders).
36 years later this scene has changed radically, with only a few buildings in the background still the same. The yards are gone, there is a flyover near where the yard office once stood. Bathurst Street still crosses over the tracks and provides a good photo vantage point to watch the action. You can see the "telltales" hanging across the tracks, another once common feature now all but vanished from the railroad scene.
cx500 Here is a photo of what was exclusively a yard office, west of Toronto Union Station. It was a CNR structure; I am not sure whether the occupants were just concerned with area freight operations or if they had some involvement with operations at the coach yard on the opposite side of the pair of Toronto Terminals Railway main tracks.
Here is a photo of what was exclusively a yard office, west of Toronto Union Station. It was a CNR structure; I am not sure whether the occupants were just concerned with area freight operations or if they had some involvement with operations at the coach yard on the opposite side of the pair of Toronto Terminals Railway main tracks.
Note that the windows in the tower on the face to the right, whatever they are managing, its what's going on on the right side of the picture. It is a modern tower, steel framed with brick exterior. Note the fuel oil tank near the ground and the smokestack for the heaters up the side. The interesting thing is that you can see through both of the top floor windows (clearly making out the buildings in the background), but you can't see any occupants or furniture that sticks up above window sill level. That is odd since if there was a yardmaster working in the tower at his post one ought to be able to see his profile or some of the stuff on his desk (radios, file cabinets, desk lamps, water coolers, etc.)
John,I suspect that the tower overseen both operations since the freight yard doesn't look that big-unless there's more yard behind the camera,..
BRAKIE John,I suspect that the tower overseen both operations since the freight yard doesn't look that big-unless there's more yard behind the camera,..
At that time there were still remnant downtown industrial areas with rail service that would have been served out of the small freight yard. Those activities may also have been part of the responsibilities of that office. At the far end of the yard there were loading docks that appeared to be used for express or LCL shipments
It is quite possible that by 1974 the tower had become mostly vacant . Computers allowed the railroads to centralize the clerical functions of car control and billing, and the local traffic was shrinking fast. I was not smart enough to care at the time, and now live some 2000 miles to the west. Ah, the questions we should have asked, the pictures we should have taken.
Who are AMB please and how good are their towers? Where will I find them please?
Thanks
Dave-the-Train Who are AMB please and how good are their towers? Where will I find them please?
Google "AMB kits" (it was the 3rd listing) or "AMB models" (it was the 1st listing). That is if you want to find out the answer quickly.
If you really don't care how long it takes to get an answer, wait for somebody else to Google it FOR you and tell you its American Model Builders at www.laserkits.com.
Dave, The correct web address is www.laserkit.com
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
See another reason he should have Googled it himself, I can't tpye goood. 8-)