Do they use mixed train today ? How would they be set up ? I was thinking to put a locomotive 2 to 4 freight cars then one or two passenger cars . My layout is set in the 2000s it is freelanced southwest NM on the Rio grande . If anyone has info on this it will help me . Thanks a lot
~ Tim .
To see photos of my HO scale / 1/64 scale layout and diorama photos base in the present day . http://www.flickr.com/photos/icr140/
Yes, in Switzerland at least.
caballorr Do they use mixed train today?
Do they use mixed train today?
A few places.
The classic "mixed train daily" (a freight train with one or a few passenger cars added) is a feature of a rural area with too few people to support pure passenger passenger trains (even DMUs or railbusses), and a not very developed road net, so people are willing to put up with a train which will take it's own sweet time to get where you are going.
Think places like say northern Ontario (Ontario Northland, http://www.pbase.com/paullantz/switching).
caballorr How would they be set up ? I was thinking to put a locomotive 2 to 4 freight cars then one or two passenger cars .
How would they be set up ? I was thinking to put a locomotive 2 to 4 freight cars then one or two passenger cars .
A loco, some freight cars, then one (few travelers, neh?) passenger car or combine at the end of the train.
If the passenger car needs head end power from the engine for heating, cooling or lights, passenger car next to engine instead of at rear of train, since the freight cars won't have cables for carrying power.
Spot passenger car at passenger platform to allow passengers to disembark or embark at their leisure, then spot or pull freight cars, before hooking up passenger car again to start or continue the journey.
You also have the opposite type of mixed train - a passenger train which also carries some express freight cars.
Different type of animal - here you should probably plan on having a couple of freight cars at the end of the train, and perhaps having another engine to get a short cut of outbound cars ready before the passenger train gets there, and to handle the cut of cars dropped off by the passenger train, since the passenger train will have a schedule to keep.
Again - no matter if you put the express freight at the front of the train or the rear of the train, you probably would not want to move passenger cars around a lot while switching - one probably would not want breakage among the passengers ... :-)
And you could do a railcar or DMU pulling a couple of freight cars - like in this picture from Norway in Europe - a diesel motor unit pulling two empty stake flatbeds for lumber down a side branch to Kragero in southern Norway a while back: http://www.jernbane.net/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12628
Smile,Stein
caballorr Do they use mixed train today ? How would they be set up ? I was thinking to put a locomotive 2 to 4 freight cars then one or two passenger cars . My layout is set in the 2000s it is freelanced southwest NM on the Rio grande . If anyone has info on this it will help me . Thanks a lot
In short no..A mixed train is a relic of the past that most railroads did not want but,was force to operate because the state or Federal goverment would not allow them to drop passenger service between towns on a branch line.
You could use that as a excuse to run a modern mixed train.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Any manipulation of the consist during a station stop would GREATLY increase the dwell time, and thus greatly reduce the train's average speed.
Such a system would only be feasible on a very low volume rural branch where the limited freight was going end to end.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
In the 2000's the only mixed trains in the US would be on a tourist line and they probably would not be true mixed trains but a consist with a couple freight cars thrown in for color or to give better 3/4 wedgie shots for the photo runby's.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman In the 2000's the only mixed trains in the US would be on a tourist line and they probably would not be true mixed trains but a consist with a couple freight cars thrown in for color or to give better 3/4 wedgie shots for the photo runby's.
In 2010 they might be totally extinct outside tourist railroads. But the Ontario Northland seemingly ran mixed trains until June of 2007 (see the link I posted above).
Not saying mixed trains are plausible for the Southwest today - few, if any places in the US are so inaccessible by road that a mixed train still would be feasible.
Smile, Stein
Here in Western Pennsylvania the Kiski Junction Railroad in Schenley, PA does combine both freight and tourist cars on certain days of the week. I believe the Oil Creek and Titusville out of Titusville also runs both tourist and freight as well as operateing the only working Railway Post Office car in the United States.
I'm not certain, but it seems to me that when I rode on these lines, they ran locomotive, passenger cars and then freight cars.
Tom
Pittsburgh, PA
When I rode on the OC&T it WAS a true mixed train - our train had 2 or 3 covered hoppers they needed to deliver at the end of the line, so instead of the power simply runnign around the train and us heading back, they came back and plucked off the hoppers and ran them around to the front of the train to set them out and then came back and took us home. I snagged a few pictures from the open car, but nothing impressive. I was sort of bummed they were using the big MLW instead of the S-2.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks for all the info this helps allot
Not all mixed trains were on branch lines. I can think of three on the Wabash that were on mainlines. One of those mainlines had regular passenger service. For two of those Wabash trains the combine on the mixed train was to haul Railway Express and had a REA man on board. Pasengers could ride but were rare. The local also unloaded Less-Than-Car-Load freight from boxcars on the end of the train next to the combine. The REA man also handled company mail.
One thing to remember is that in a mixed train, generally the passenger cars would be right behind the engine to get steam heat or HEP from the engine, followed by the cars (and a caboose before c.1985). On older branch line mixed trains, the passenger car(s) would only be on the rear if they had their own heat source, like a coal stove. Of course, in the summer this wasn't so big an issue.
I have seen Amtrak trains with "freight" cars behind it, like piggybacks (presumably carrying US Mail?) at the end of the train. Plets Express DVD on the Minnesota Commercial RR shows the Empire Builder with several piggyback cars behind the passenger cars.
wjstix I have seen Amtrak trains with "freight" cars behind it, like piggybacks (presumably carrying US Mail?) at the end of the train. Plets Express DVD on the Minnesota Commercial RR shows the Empire Builder with several piggyback cars behind the passenger cars.
Not necessarily mail, it could be any "express' pacakages. For a while they were carrying beer. The freight railroads objected to that since they were supposed to be carrying passengers, but were carrying freight AND requiring the railroads to give them priority over the railroad's own freight trains. Plus the freight made the trains longer and slower, both in top speed and in acceleration, so that impacted the freight operation even more.
On the Wabash mixed train I co-wrote about for the Wabash Railroad Historical Society Banner magazine last year, the combine was ALWAYS on the rear of the local. It had two pot belly stoves--one for the baggage section and one for the smoking (coach) section. It also used kerosene lighting. The car used was a heavyweight car. Leftover steam piping and brackets once used to hold diaphrams revealed that these cars had one time been used in regular passenger service. This mixed service between Montpelier, Ohio and Gary indiana started in 1933 and ended in the early 60s. The combine was never turned and the smoking section always faced west. This local went west on Mondays, Wednesdays,Fridays and east on Tuesday, Thursdays, Saturdays. It would stay in Gary on M-W-F night and the crew except the engineer and fireman would bunk in the baggage section on cotts. In additon to doing all the switching btw the two points, they would also unload LCL from boxcars that were coupled just in front of the combine. If they had enough track length at a station they would leave the combine and LCL cars at the station for unloading and let the other part of the crew do the switching at the grain elevator, coal yard etc. But if there was not enough track length, they would do the switching first and then unload the combine and the LCL cars. Only Railway Express was carried in the combine and it was handled by the REA man. Like I wrote before, he also handled company mail. Very rarely did they have passengers.
wjstix One thing to remember is that in a mixed train, generally the passenger cars would be right behind the engine to get steam heat or HEP from the engine, followed by the cars (and a caboose before c.1985). On older branch line mixed trains, the passenger car(s) would only be on the rear if they had their own heat source, like a coal stove. Of course, in the summer this wasn't so big an issue.
Having the freight cars immediately behind the engine with the passenger cars at the end was much more prevalent even through the late-steam era (leastwise in the USA). Occupied passenger cars were independently heated. I've seen photos following this practice about 90% of the time. For one thing, it was much easier to switch the freight cars when they were adjacent to the engine, and why would one want to pull a caboose around unnecessarily when the rear-end crew could be carried in the passenger cars?
The "Switzerland Last Month" thread in the Prototype section shows contemporary mixed trains in Switzerland. But the towns with industry having local switchers to switch the freight cars, and in those instances it is more convenient to have the freight cars at the rear.
markpierce wjstix: One thing to remember is that in a mixed train, generally the passenger cars would be right behind the engine to get steam heat or HEP from the engine, followed by the cars (and a caboose before c.1985). On older branch line mixed trains, the passenger car(s) would only be on the rear if they had their own heat source, like a coal stove. Of course, in the summer this wasn't so big an issue. Having the freight cars immediately behind the engine with the passenger cars at the end was much more prevalent even through the late-steam era (leastwise in the USA). Occupied passenger cars were independently heated. I've seen photos following this practice about 90% of the time. For one thing, it was much easier to switch the freight cars when they were adjacent to the engine, and why would one want to pull a caboose around unnecessarily when the rear-end crew could be carried in the passenger cars?
wjstix: One thing to remember is that in a mixed train, generally the passenger cars would be right behind the engine to get steam heat or HEP from the engine, followed by the cars (and a caboose before c.1985). On older branch line mixed trains, the passenger car(s) would only be on the rear if they had their own heat source, like a coal stove. Of course, in the summer this wasn't so big an issue.
"On older branch line mixed trains, the passenger car(s) would only be on the rear if they had their own heat source, like a coal stove."
Yes, generally the cars used in mixed train service were ones equipped with a coal stove or something similar, so they could ride at the rear of the train. That's why so many mixed trains used very old (pre-steam heat) passenger cars. My point was that a car that had steam heat and no stove would have to be right behind the engine at least in colder weather. It's true the combine or coach at the rear of the train was probably the most common mixed train set-up, but having the passenger car(s) right behind the engine, followed by the freight cars and a caboose, was a lot more common than is generally realized (or modelled).
wjstix It's true the combine or coach at the rear of the train was probably the most common mixed train set-up, but having the passenger car(s) right behind the engine, followed by the freight cars and a caboose, was a lot more common than is generally realized (or modelled).
It's true the combine or coach at the rear of the train was probably the most common mixed train set-up, but having the passenger car(s) right behind the engine, followed by the freight cars and a caboose, was a lot more common than is generally realized (or modelled).
For many years I have actively searched for evidence the Southern Pacific Railroad ever placed passenger cars of a mixed train immediately behind the locomotive; however, all found instances of mixed trains showed them at the rear of the train.
markpierce wjstix: It's true the combine or coach at the rear of the train was probably the most common mixed train set-up, but having the passenger car(s) right behind the engine, followed by the freight cars and a caboose, was a lot more common than is generally realized (or modelled). For many years I have actively searched for evidence the Southern Pacific Railroad ever placed passenger cars of a mixed train immediately behind the locomotive; however, all found instances of mixed trains showed them at the rear of the train.
wjstix: It's true the combine or coach at the rear of the train was probably the most common mixed train set-up, but having the passenger car(s) right behind the engine, followed by the freight cars and a caboose, was a lot more common than is generally realized (or modelled).
Most railroads put 'em at the rear simply because that combine served as the caboose and any passengers(usually the REA express out numbered the passengers) was out of harms way when the crew switch cars at various industries along the way.
One thing to remember a mix train was nothing more then a gloried local that may had several stops between small towns and the schedule was "subject to change"...In other words it was more/less public eye candy..
I'm pretty sure SP wasn't the only railroad in the US though.
This of course assumes the engine is equipped for steam heat or HEP. Most mixed train engines I have seen pictures of were freight engines, so didn't have steam heat anyway, and the passenger cars were on the rear.