Are the cabooses coupled or uncoupled while sitting on the caboose track.
I am curious how the switcher gains access to the desired caboose.
Coupled or uncoupled, let's say that there are seven cabooses on the caboose track and it is the middle one that the switcher is after. How would that be accomplished and in how many moves?
Thanks
Rich
Alton Junction
Greetings,
I am asking the following because I just do not know and I think it relates to the original question.
If the yard is a UP yard wouldn't all the cabooses be UP? If so, why should the switcher need to take one from the middle, why not just the next caboose in line?
I hope we both get answers.
Christopher
Depending on the railroad's rules, the caboose might "belong" to one particular crew or conductor. So, the caboose to be put on the train would depend on the crew. I would suppose that the yardmaster would try to position the cabeese so that the first train out would pull the first caboose, etc., but that might not always be possible.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
My only first hand knowledge comes from the late 1950's on the Santa Fe when I would work summers as an extra car clerk while going to seminary the rest of the year. I worked mostly at Enid OK which was a major grain terminal area, inbounds and outbounds all over the place during harvest. The rest of the year, one local came in from Purcell/Oklahoma City and tied up at Enid. That caboose was assigned to the conductor on the train, who was normally a colorful character called "cowboy". The waycar (Santa Fe terminology) was parked on the caboose track, which included access to ice and water. Some of the crew went to a local hotel, but Cowboy lived on the waycar and if anyone got it dirty, they found themselves on the ground. I would walk down to the caboose track to give him his "call", which I remember was 1 and 1/2 hours before departure time, and you had bettter give him full call.
Cowboy cleaned, cooked, slept on that waycar. Then we had a second non harvest time local that originated at Enid, went to Kiowa Ks and returned. That train also had an assigned waycar which stayed at Enid when not in service. However, all the crew stayed or lived in town. In working during the summer as vacation relief all over the Oklahoma Div. I learned that locals usually had assigned cars, through trains did not.
My dad was a switch engineer at Enid for over half of his 50 plus years of service. I learned a lot from him and working for the railroad in the summer. Some good, some not so good. I certainly learned that railroad employment was not a golden job, at least in those years.
Bob
In the era of pool cabooses it would be first in first out-if we even bothered.I seen a PRR cabin serviced and place on a outbound train and not even hit the caboose outbound ready track.
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We would simply switch out the needed cabin like any need freight car..
First it not really the amount of moves..Its time efficent switching but,I will answer your question 5 moves would be made.
1.Couple on to the cabin cars,uncouple the cabin car you need.
2.Pull to switch,throw switch
3.lightly Kick the cabin car,a brakeman would ride the cabin and apply the hand brake once the cabin was in the clear.
4.Replace the other cabins on the outbound ready.
5.Return to switch,throw switch and pickup the cabin car.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The caboose track was primarily a feature of the era prior to pool and run-through cabooses. Most would be assigned to a specific conductor, who often did some customization of the interior furnishings to make it more comfortable. When his train arrived at at terminal, the yard engine would pick the caboose off the train and couple it to the end of the string of cabooses. In smaller facilities it might be the road engine before it headed for the shop area.
To follow on, it might be the next day, or even longer, when the conductor is called to take another train. By now his caboose is probably buried deep within the line, so the yard engine will pull all the ones up to his caboose out, set his on a convenient track, and push the rest back in. Then it would likely take the caboose over to couple to the rear of the outgoing train.
Steam usually required servicing at each terminal, so dealing with assigned cabooses was not a big problem. Many freights would get switched at each point anyway. Dieselization changed many practices (even if it often was some years later before they happened). Using pool cabooses that stay with the train drastically reduced the number of cabooses required by the railroad. That was important for those roads that were replacing the fleet with more modern designs that included such amenities as electric light and toilets. Regular local wayfreights and industrial jobs, though, often continued to have informally assigned older cabooses.
John
Actually there's more to it.
I worked PRR's Gibbard yard cabin job several times and here's the way it was sit up.
1.Inbound track.This is where the cabins was placed after being removed from a inbound train.
2.Servicing track..This is where the cabins was cleaned,restocked,service and inspected.
3.Outbound ready.This is where the cabins was spotted after servicing..If business was slow they would be placed on a storage track.
There was a dedicated switch crew that was kept busy adding,removing cabins from trains as well as switching the servicing track...One would think this was a gravy job but,he would be wrong.
richhotrainAre the cabooses coupled or uncoupled while sitting on the caboose track.
From a large eastern road:
It depended on what the car knockers wanted, but usually they were left coupled unless they were blocking a walkway.
The cab servicing tracks were protected by blue flags and shop locks on the switches while the car knockers were were working. They would remove the blue flags and unlock the shop locks when a move had to be made. Shop locks looked like regular switch locks, but were operated by a special Car Department key that trainmen were not supposed to have.
Sometimes the road crew would shift out and put on their own cabin, but usually a yard crew would get it out and couple it to the train.
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That would depend on the work rules between the operating unions and the railroad and it was not the yard crew's job in larger terminals..That was the caboose switch crew's job.
Great info on the caboose track, guys, I appreciate it.
If I may add a question...
What would be done about the brakes on the cabeese please?
Would they have the air dumped and be screwed down on the car brake... or...?
If the brake was on was there a standard way of indicating to crews that it was on so thatbthey knew to release it before moving the caboose(s)? (We had a way of placing an item of equipment to show that the brake was left on).
airwolf crazyI am asking the following because I just do not know and I think it relates to the original question
Me too!
airwolf crazy If the yard is a UP yard wouldn't all the cabooses be UP? If so, why should the switcher need to take one from the middle, why not just the next caboose in line?
I think that the answer is that the cabeese coming into a yard would belong to the RR who worked trains into the yard.
So if it was a joint yard you would get cabs from each of the joint owners/users in proportion to the traffic each road handled. That raises a question as to whether each RR would have its own caboose track... and where?
The other cabs I would expect to show up would be off of any train that had a run-through into the yard... Would that be correct?
I imagine that any short line or similar that worked into the yard would have a cab or two showing up there but that it wouldn't tend to hang around... unless the loco did as well. Again there is a question of where a shortline's cab would be spotted while its train did whatever it did.
Thinking on... I think that this applies more to pool than assigned cabs... did cabs get dead-headed or transfered between yards if there was an inballance of cabs going in and out? If so: how please?
Which also raises a question of whether cabs would be seen anywhere in a train other than the front or the back? ... and, apart from deadheading would there be any reason for a train to have more than one caboose? (Apart from escorting an out-of-gauge load).
Dave-the-Train What would be done about the brakes on the cabeese please?
When the engines cut off the train the entire train gets the air dumped.
The carmen bleed the brakes off. When the caboose is set in the caboose track a handbrake is set.
Same standard as any other car, the brake piston is out and the handbrake chain is tight, when you pull it is squeels like hell.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Dave-the-Train airwolf crazy If the yard is a UP yard wouldn't all the cabooses be UP? If so, why should the switcher need to take one from the middle, why not just the next caboose in line? I think that the answer is that the cabeese coming into a yard would belong to the RR who worked trains into the yard.
They would be whatever cabooses were on whatever train that terminated in the yard. Most of them would be home road cabooses. There could be cabooses from other roads on run throughs.
There would be one caboose track.
The cabooses and power come in on TRAINS. The railroad runs one train in that protects one train out. The shortline power in protects the shortline train out. The shortline caboose and power is a one for one thing. If the shortline train is being terminated in the yard and the crew is going to rest, then the caboose goes on the caboose track. If the shortline train is just turning then the inbound caboose is put on the outbound train and the shortline power and caboose leave.
You put them on a train. Just like if you are excessing power.
Some roads had rules against cabooses anyplace other than the rear. Some roads put cabooses in the middle of a train that splits. A train leave Chicgo with the front half for Los Angeles and the back half for San Francisco. When it gets to Salt Lake City the head 2 units set over, the rear two units and LA portion cut away from the rear of the train and run to LA, the head two units move back over on the rear portion of the train and run it to Frisco. That type of thing.
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The brakes would be bled off by a carman and the handbrake applied.You see by doing this the air couldn't bleed off and the cabin go rolling away.
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Actually the cabin switch crew would release the handbrake before taking the cabin to a outbound train..The outbound train would have several cars on the front with their handbrakes applied so there would be no need to set the cabin cars handbrake.
BTW..Carmen would connect the air hoses on the outbound train as they inspect the train so,all we had to do was couple the cabin to the train.
As far as foreign road cabooses..Yes,I have seen run through pool cabooses.In fact some PRR road crews loved UP cabooses because they rode better then our cabin cars.
to answer the question about more than one caboose on a train, in the days of assigned cabooses, there would sometimes be two or more occupied cabeese on a train; one had the working crew, the others deadheading crews, nearly always all at the back. quite often there'd be a second, un-necessary locomotive too. a few roads ran locals with a second (empty) caboose right behind the locomotive for the convenience of crew members who were near the head end after local switching moves when it was time to leave town. -big duke
How cabooses were handled changed through time. I suggest you find a copy of The Railroad Caboose by William Knapke with Freeman Hubbard. Published in 1968 it gives a very nice overview of how cabooses were used and handled in the early days, before unions agreed to pools and conductors were no longer assigned their own caboose.
Doug Harding
Dave-the-TrainThinking on... I think that this applies more to pool than assigned cabs... did cabs get dead-headed or transfered between yards if there was an inballance of cabs going in and out? If so: how please? Which also raises a question of whether cabs would be seen anywhere in a train other than the front or the back? ... and, apart from deadheading would there be any reason for a train to have more than one caboose? (Apart from escorting an out-of-gauge load).
I believe some states that had "full crew laws" required trains to have a rider car behind the locomotive for the head-end brakeman. Bruce Darnaby had an article about modeling rider cars in Railroad Model Craftsman back in the 1980s.
When I was a kid in the late 1960s - early 1970s, I recall watching Milwaukee Road trains on the C&NW New Line through Des Plaines, IL, which had cabooses in the middle of the train in addition to the caboose on the end of the train. They were headed south, toward the Milwaukee Road's Bensenville Yard, and I do not know if the cars were occupied. (I would guess not; it would seem that occupied cabooses would have been kept together at the rear of the train.)
Dan
some of the questions about more that one caboose and foreign line cabeese brought back a somewhat foggy memory.
Conrail operated a run through train with the Cotton Belt called INCB. Avon Indiana (Indianapolis) to Pine Bluff Arkansas. Westbound it looked like this; CR power followed by SSW or SP power-a SSW or SP caboose behind the power-the train itself usually 80 to 100 cars-CR caboose on the rear.
The train would pull down the main at Roselake and a yard engine would go out through the crossover in front of the Yard office and take the CR cab off. The rear end crew would go to the other end via carryall or taxi and get on the cab that was behind the engines. Meanwhile, the power would cut off and run around the train, tying on to what had previously been the rear end. They would change ends on the power so that a SP or SSW unit was now in the lead. The entire train would then shove north onto the TRRA toward Madison until the train was headed south on the TRRA Illinois transfer line. Now you have SSW or SP power in the lead followed by CR power and the train itself with a SSW or SP caboose on the rear. Our road crew would then deliver the entire train to the SSW at Valley Junction although the head end was usually down about Cahokia when they cleared the interlocking at Valley. SSW mechanical types and car department would give the power and caboose a quick look see and touch up before the SSW crew took over and headed out. I think the train got a roll by inspection when it went by the Cotton Belt yard.
Biggest deal was to make sure the Illinois transfer line was clear so you didn't have to stop on the way south to the SSW. Otherwise, the local inhabitants would try to break into and unload every box car in the train. They would station themselves along the route to be ready in case the train stopped. The block operators at HN tower and Willows reportedly got mysterious private phone calls on his Bell line or city phone asking where the train was and when it was expected. These were the same thieves that could smell a load of new tires from a quarter mile away. They would climb onto a juicy looking car if the train was moving slowly enough and ride along until it stopped, then go to work. One railroad cop said it often looked like those photos you see of trains in India with people hanging all over the outside. Some crews didn't care since they were busy trying to figure out how to pilfer the fancy wooden captain's chairs on the caboose. (Note-they were branded SP Transp. Co. on the bottom.) and no, i don't have any. (left)
hey driver, "can you crowd another crew into that carryall?" "hell no, the back seat is full of chairs"
The Cotton belt got even for those missing chairs by swiping the spare MU jumper cables off your engines and hijacking our 6 axle road power and using it for hump engines at Pine Bluff for weeks at a time.
grizlump
at the end or start of a shift, we always dug out enough clean cabs needed for the trains we intended to make up. we stashed them on a run around track called the pocket and then set any dirty cabs that had come in during the previous 8 hours to the cab track. that way the caboose track guys could lock the switch and blue flag it so they could work (or sleep) undisturbed for 8 hours.
we left the cabs coupled up. anything that needed draft gear repairs got sent to the rip track anyway. if you had enough car department seniority to hold the cab track job, you were too old to lift a knuckle anyway. about all i ever saw the caboose track guys do was sweep out and re-supply the cabs and maybe recharge a battery or adjust an alternator belt once in a while.
run through trains coming off the TRRA and A&S were supposed to have the cab already serviced and ready to go but we sent a car knocker out in a pickup truck with supplies just to check it out and make sure.
some times the road crews would lend a hand in servicing the cabeese. i remember how the inbound B&O guys next door used to throw off all their empty beer cans when they came over the A&S crossing at HN tower. here would come a westbound B&O job running about 60 mph with the hook out and fire flying from all the wheels approaching Willows interlocking and as the cab pounded over the diamonds it would start raining aluminum.
pool cab condition was a big deal to some of the crews and others just wanted an warm dry place to ride. after getting their air test a particularly troublesome conductor started griping on the radio about how the caboose was no good and did not have any overhead water. said he didn't have to take it and we better get him another one. i drove down to the west end and there was a giant wet spot on the ground all around his caboose.(it hadn't rained for days). he came out on the platform and asked if i had brought him any water. i said, "no, i just want to make sure your timetable and bulletin orders are up to date and maybe take a peek in your grip. he walked back inside, picked up the radio and said, "ok scrubby, let's go. highball SW-6" years later, i think our superintendent went to his funeral just to jab him with a pin and make sure he was dead.
they were all pool cabs except for the Terre Haute local that came to town 3 days a week. they had one of those open platform transfer cabs assigned to that job. the crew did not stay on it when they were in town, they went to the hotel.
after the merger, road crews preferred former NYC bay window cabs and their use was mandatory on tofc trains. the PRR cabins were built like battleships and rode like buckboards. no doubt the design requirements of a railroad that used a lot of pushers in mountainous regions back east. if we ever have a total nuclear war i bet all that will be left are cockroaches and PRR cabin cars.