Track (layout) planning for ghosts

[Dave-the-Train]

I guess this could go in the General Discussion section but, as it's inspired by the thread about platforms, I'm putting it here...

I have seen lots of picks of huge coaling towers still standing in this century long after they have last been used... I don't think that I've ever seen one modelled...

Stemming from the question of platforms having gone out of use I have thought about the fact that track spacing would still tend to be set to go round the the site of an island platform long after even the foundations had gone or been buried (by plants or whatever).  I guess that the same might apply to towers, yard masters' offices and l;ots more...

So the question here is... does anyone model these?  ...and, of course, does anyone have any pics of the real thing or models?

This is the huge question of how to model the non-obvious (completely obscure/invisible) things that are part of the railroad scene.

How do young modellers of the transition and post transition eras get to know what "should be ther" left over from the steam era?

Thanks

[wjstix]

Anyone one modelling a period before they were born are going to have to do a lot of research. Although much is now available online, old-fashioned books are still probably the best source of info and reference. It can be tough to model a period you're too young to remember, because it's easy to assume things have always been the way they are.

[cuyama]

Because platforms impact clearances, I think that they are more likely to be demolished when no longer needed than some other elements.

I find this generally to be the case -- if the old infrastructure impacts modern operation in any way, the money is spent to remove it.

[chutton01]

I wonder if there has been a change over the decades, or maybe it is just perception.
AFAIK abandoned houses and such have been modeled by some on their layouts (usually marketed as haunted), but abandoned railroad facilities, not so much.  Then, sometime in the early 1990s (maybe late '80s - 20 years ago!), there started to appear abandoned towers, stations, sheds, platforms (In the real world, if these are low enough, they will be left in place, and simply crumble, get weed covered, etc), and ROW where the tracks were lifted (or buried in weeds).  Now-adays it seems to be standard practive to include abandoned structures to indicate the presence of history (I know I'm going to have to include a few abandoned structures).
To answer the specific question about abandoned concrete coaling towers, I'm sure people have modeled them, but perhaps they are too dang pricey and intricate to include when they won't serve any operational purpose.  Are there any wood coaling bins around in the real world (not in use for tourist lines and the like)?

[odave]

I plan on including an abandoned coaling tower in my freelanced 1970s service area.  My inspiration is the old GTW coaling tower in the service area at CN's Pontiac, MI yard.  In this case, the tracks for access to the diesel fueling pad go right under the old tower.  

No Bird's eye, but here's another example in Durand, MI, with some cars stored under the tower. 

I have a "thing" for coaling towers and I wanted to try to model something like this.

I don't have the space to include it in-line with my service trackage, so I plan to put it off to the side of my diesel engine house, with some weedy/paved over "abandoned" tracks/ties under it to suggest that the rest of the old steam area was "over thataway".  See the center-left of my track plan below, structure "Q":

[chatanuga]

On Norfolk Southern north of Marion, Ohio, the old Pennsy coaling tower is still in place over both tracks.  It doesn't cause a clearance problem since it clears doublestacks easily.  From what I've heard, NS has wanted to remove the structure, but the cost of rerouting traffic and tearing it down would make it not worth the trouble.  So, as long as it doesn't start to fall apart or cause a problem, it's going to be there for a while.

Kevin

[wjstix]

I think the reason more abandoned RR buildings and such are modelled in recent years is that there are more "modern" modellers now. Back when I started modelling in the early seventies it was very rare to find someone modelling anything later than the late-steam / early diesel transition era, and a high pct. of modellers were "steam only". By the late eighties there were many adult modellers who had missed the end of steam, and were more likely to model the 1960's or later, a period when things like coaling towers, interlocking towers, etc. were no longer needed.

[rrinker]

 As I recall, Tony the K had a set of water tower footing on his AM when it was set in the 70's. When he backdated he just put the water tower in place. I recall seeing pictures of this in MR in one of the AM articles. I think the one on trackside details, actually.

                         --Randy

[doctorwayne]

The TH&B kept this coaling tower in place long after steam was gone, using it for sanding diesels.  It was near their Chatham St. roundhouse, in Hamilton, Ontario, and not on the main line.

Wayne

[chatanuga]

wjstix

I think the reason more abandoned RR buildings and such are modelled in recent years is that there are more "modern" modellers now. Back when I started modelling in the early seventies it was very rare to find someone modelling anything later than the late-steam / early diesel transition era, and a high pct. of modellers were "steam only". By the late eighties there were many adult modellers who had missed the end of steam, and were more likely to model the 1960's or later, a period when things like coaling towers, interlocking towers, etc. were no longer needed.

Well, if you think about it, unless the route you're modeling is newly completed, there's bound to be some signs of the past along it, no matter what era you model.

Kevin

[markpierce]

Those existing obsolete buildings aren't ghosts.  Now here is a real ghost at Dover Castle.  The ghost was invisible when the photograph was taken (taken ostensibly to capture the alcove but the ghost must have made an unconscious to my girl-friend photographer), but the ghost's image showed up in the photographic.  Such events aren't infrequent in the castle.

 

 

 

Regardless, young modelers gain knowledge of the world before they knew it by inquiry and study.  If nothing else, read relevant books, especially those with lots of pictures. 

Mark

[Dave-the-Train]

Thanks everyone!   

Sorry I've not been back on this one for a few days...something called work interupted

Mark, if it didn't talk to you it was merely a trick of the light   If you want a really spooky experience try Mottingham station in SE London.  The Victorian lady there regularly asks people when the next train will arrive from London.  The best one while I was around that area was when she asked one of two techs locked inside the down (out of London) side buildings.