Hi All,
I'm trying to find some examples in real life of three way switches on prototype railroads. How common are they - not only today but also 40 - 50 years ago? The HO scale 3 way switch seems a little complex for real life railroads to consider using them.
Thoughts?
Thanks,Chris
They were used where space limitations required them, so could be seen in certain urban environments. Railrods preferred to use single turnouts.
A major exception was when stub turnouts were used. Here it seemed a three-way switch was often preferred when two single turnouts would fit.
Mark
They have been used on standard gauge, class one railrods, mostly in yards or locations where there are space limitations.
They are not used as much now because modern railroads prefer more "standard" track arrangements that are easier to maintain. In some cases, modern railroads will replace a crossing with two switches.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Well,in my 9 1/2 years as a brakeman I never seen one..Seen a lot of switches as a ladder on urban branch lines that served industries that was close together but,no 3 way was to be seen..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
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Well, I don't know of any formal numbers, but having poked around a good number of rail yards over the years, I'd say that they are very rare in North American railroading. My father was a 42-year conductor on the Illinois Central and I recall that when I showed him a model RR track plan with a 3-way switch, he said that he had never seen one of those.
When I found one on the East Broad Top (3-foot gauge) in Orbisonia, PA, I remember standing there and thinking "Oooh, that's a 3-way!" This one is just north of the coal ramp/loading facility for locomotives, where the tracks separate out for the shop area. This was in regular use when the photo was taken on July 30, 1981 by locomotives heading to the roundhouse.
Bill
They existed. Personnaly, all the 3-way turnout switches I saw headed to a roundhouse or an engine shop. I guess it's because you can easily command 3 track with only one switch, limiting the time and work spend with 2 regular switches (my two cents).
In my area, Quebec Railway Light & Power Company (then CN) used a three way switch from 1889 to 1978 for their three door engine shops. There was no space limitation since the building stood in open fields for almost all its existence. It was working exactly like the prototype Bill posted with the 2 rails moving together and no point.
Matt
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I'm not sure just which type of three-way turnout you are thinking of. One of the other posters included a picture of a 3-way stub switch, and that geometry pretty much required a stub switch. Stub switches generally were replaced or removed many decades ago, but a few survived quite late in obscure corners, and especially on barge slips.
The other type is a 3-way lap turnout, where the second set of switch points appear before the frogs start. They were used, reluctantly, where there were very tight space constraints and no other possible. alternative. Instead of two turnouts with two frogs, in a lap turnout three frogs were required. Sometimes it might be possible to have the geometry such that the third frog had a standard angle, which would help keep the extra costs to a minimum.
John
Here was one in Noblesville IN.
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
rogerhensley Here was one in Noblesville IN.
This nice example provided is a "tandem"or "lapped" turnout and the sort of thing we usually see on models. This one is also an "assymetric" one... goes either side of centre. Some are left handed or right handed.
The experts here [in UK] are always pointing out that to strictly be a threeway point both sets of blades should have their point toes at the same place. not staggered along the line as in the tandem variety.
Obviously fitting two sets of blade toes into the same space creates issues. This means that they are both rare and almost exclusively used in track that has extremely slow traffic.
Putting a 3 way or tandem into a loco yard makes sense from the practical point of view of reducing the amount of walking required to throw switches when locos are shifting from track 1 - 3 or 3 -1... which means the kjob can be done quicker.
The extra, possibly odd angled, common crossing/frog would have been less of an issue in earlier bolted up switches where it was much more simple to make "one-off" items. Once the shift is made to cast crossings and factory standard componenets/whole switches odd arrangements become more of a hassle and more expensive.
George Hilton in his book on the Ma&Pa says they had 2 in York. The book has a picture of one. Don't know if either one is still there or not.
Enjoy
Paul
The example I cited used stub 3-way switches and also regular 2-way stub switches with large large white wood posts until 1959, but as stated, it was an obscure electric traction railway anyway.
KB0QQWI'm trying to find some examples in real life of three way switches on prototype railroads. How common are they - not only today but also 40 - 50 years ago? The HO scale 3 way switch seems a little complex for real life railroads to consider using them.
Back around 1960 or so, Model Railroader had an article on the Bevier & Southern RR in Missouri. The B&S had a three-way switch at their engine house. The three-way was later replaced with a couple regular switches. The article had photos showing both arrangements.
There is a photo of one of the Maryland & Pennsylvania three-way switches in York PA in the Spring 2008 NRHS Bulletin.
OOh! Where is that in Noblesville? I can't place the location. And is the left arm of that switch curving back across itself?
-Morgan
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FlashwaveOOh! Where is that in Noblesville? I can't place the location. And is the left arm of that switch curving back across itself?
It isn't any longer. It was on the old Central Indiana and was pulled up serveral years back.
Sorry.
Geared Steam http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=52105
From the caption accompanying the above photo, which was posted in April 2009 -
"We have a 3 way-sw at Campo,CA Pacific Southwest Railway Museum (dba San Diego Railroad Museum). It was install here about 24 year ago.The switch was was installed in 1928 by a by date nail on a tie in San Diego,CAat Pacific Highway and "F" for Santa Fe RR."
When I get out that way, I'll have to go look at it, and see if they will demonstrate how it throws - and find the guy who keeps in it adjustment, and what kind of operating rod set-up they use. I can maybe believe that such things were used way back in the day - they would seem to be a machinist's delight and a track foreman's and trainmaster's nightmare - but I'd find it hard to believe they were installed new after about World War II. Most railroads I worked with would do a lot to get rid of something like that.
I've seen 3-way stub switches, such as at the 3-ft. gauge East Broad Top, and maybe some other out-of-the-way operations, but never in a mainline railroad operation.
The 'lap-type' 3-way switches would have been more common than either of the above. The only ones I can recall seeing in an active operation would have been at Lukens Steel in Coatesville, PA, on their narrow-gauge track system, in the 1970's. There were likely some along the Delaware Avenue waterfront trackage in Philadelphia, but most of that was removed and rebuilt in a simplified version in the mid-1970's. Otherwise, there might have been and still be some in the former Philadelphia Navy Ship Yard - now an industrial park of some kind. There was a lot of fancy switchwork in that place not often seen elsewhere, due to the extreme constraints of dockside space, rail-mounted gantry cranes, and the availablility of government and especially military funding to pay for it. But that was one installation I never did any work in, so I'm not that familiar with it.
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr I've seen 3-way stub switches, such as at the 3-ft. gauge East Broad Top, and maybe some other out-of-the-way operations, but never in a mainline railroad operation. The 'lap-type' 3-way switches would have been more common than either of the above. The only ones I can recall seeing in an active operation would have been at Lukens Steel in Coatesville, PA, on their narrow-gauge track system, in the 1970's. There were likely some along the Delaware Avenue waterfront trackage in Philadelphia, but most of that was removed and rebuilt in a simplified version in the mid-1970's. Otherwise, there might have been and still be some in the former Philadelphia Navy Ship Yard - now an industrial park of some kind. There was a lot of fancy switchwork in that place not often seen elsewhere, due to the extreme constraints of dockside space, rail-mounted gantry cranes, and the availablility of government and especially military funding to pay for it. But that was one installation I never did any work in, so I'm not that familiar with it.
Seems to me there was a lap switch on Conrail's ex-PRR street trackage in Baltimore near Bond and Thames Sts. IIRC it was grider rail. Speaking of girder rail, streetcar systems probably used their share of lap switches.
i spent 3 decades on the railroad and i don't remember any 3 way switches. as a matter of fact i can only think of a couple of locations where slip or puzzle switches were used. (not counting St Louis union station) which was a nightmare.
i do have a couple of 3 way "lap" switches and a double slip on my layout. the 3 way is installed in some rather crowded industrial trackage and the double slip was installed to save putting in a cross over where i lacked the straight track to do so without creating an "s" curve.
in model railroading, space or lack of it always seems to be a governing factor where the prototypes see distance as an obstacle to be overcome.
grizlump