Questions on some things..

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

Get an undecorated one and pretend it was mistakenly shipped to NC by Warner Brothers Acme Shipping Co. because....they took a "wrong turn at Albuquerque". Sounds legitimate to me...[:D]

Tom

[:)] Heck.. works for me!!
Jarrell

[:D]Jarrell: just rember it is your railroad,so if you want an mallett on there that would be just fine,BTW there is an logging mallett avable for under $100.00 and looks fine,would go fine with a SHAY,and Maybe a HYSTER[}:)][8D]

Jim

Jim, I'm trying to save up for a nice Shay, but things like turnouts and track and foam and glue keep getting in the way. The other day I bought another, what I thought would be my last, 2 inch 2x8 foot foam. I didn't even notice that the guy loaded 1 1/2 inch on my truck ( I thought it came only in one and two inch thickness). I didn't notice it when I measured off some pieces and cut it up. Idid notice it when I laid one of the on the layout!
They'd probably give me another one if I took the pieces back but I can probably use it for other things. In fact, I know I can.
I gotta pay closer attention! [;)]
Jarrell

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

Get an undecorated one and pretend it was mistakenly shipped to NC by Warner Brothers Acme Shipping Co. because....they took a "wrong turn at Albuquerque". Sounds legitimate to me...[:D]

Tom

[:)] Heck.. works for me!!
Jarrell

[:D]Jarrell: just rember it is your railroad,so if you want an mallett on there that would be just fine,BTW there is an logging mallett avable for under $100.00 and looks fine,would go fine with a SHAY,and Maybe a HYSTER[}:)][8D]

Jim

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

Get an undecorated one and pretend it was mistakenly shipped to NC by Warner Brothers Acme Shipping Co. because....they took a "wrong turn at Albuquerque". Sounds legitimate to me...[:D]

Tom

[:)] Heck.. works for me!!
Jarrell

[tstage]

Jarrell,

Get an undecorated one and pretend it was mistakenly shipped to NC by Warner Brothers Acme Shipping Co. because....they took a "wrong turn at Albuquerque". Sounds legitimate to me...[:D]

Tom

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Medina1128

Actually, Jacon, that's the BLI Santa Fe 4-8-4. Yep, sound AND DCC. It's sounds and runs as good as it looks. My wife got it for me for our 6th wedding anniversary! Ya gotta love a woman like that.. I know I do!!

Like-a so..
http://www.internethobbies.com/brliimhosafe.html
Hmmmm..... they ever use these in North Carolina or Tennessee in the '40s> [:D]
Oh well..
Thanks for the info.
Jarrell

[tstage]

Marion,

Thanks for the correction. (Guess I shoulda counted the wheels - duh?) Still, a very handsome locomotive indeed...

Tom

[Medina1128]

Actually, Jacon, that's the BLI Santa Fe 4-8-4. Yep, sound AND DCC. It's sounds and runs as good as it looks. My wife got it for me for our 6th wedding anniversary! Ya gotta love a woman like that.. I know I do!!

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

I believe that's the new BLI UP 4-8-2 Mountain. (http://www.trainworld1.com/broadwayltd/index.html) I just saw it listed on the Trainworld.com site about 15 minutes ago - $90 off MSRP! Only comes in AT&SF scheme though.

Tom

Nice! [:p]
I don't guess many of these ran around in the North Carolina/Tennessee mountains though. [:(]
Thanks Tom.
Jarrell

[tstage]

Jarrell,

I believe that's the new BLI UP 4-8-2 Mountain. (http://www.trainworld1.com/broadwayltd/index.html) I just saw it listed on the Trainworld.com site about 15 minutes ago - $90 off MSRP! Only comes in AT&SF scheme though.

Tom

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Medina1128

Unless I'm mistaken, the dimensions are listed on the WS web site.

Marlon, thats a beauty of an engine in your signature, who makes it? DCC and sound?
Jarrell

[Medina1128]

Unless I'm mistaken, the dimensions are listed on the WS web site.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

Jarrell,
Regarding the portals- many single track portals may not be wide enough to use on a turn.
Side clearance for passenger cars on the inside of the track and pilot overhang clearance on the outside of the track must be checked. You may need to purchase the portals to check these clearances before finishing these areas. You definately should know what portal is to be installed before capping the tunnel, this way you can add backers for the tunnel liner to correspond to the portal shape and construction(cut stone, masonry block, concrete or wood). If a portal needs to be wider, you can cut and add to the concrete styles and hide the seams. For W/S masonry portal, 2 portals need to be used to make one. Cuts just passed the centerline on both and glue back together gives a wider portal that allows the stone work to blend (keystone will just be larger) Don't forget the top clearance for taller equipment if it is to be used. Don't ask how I found this out (What do you mean the double stacks hit the portal!)
Bob K.

......"Don't ask how I found this out (What do you mean the double stacks hit the portal!)"....

[(-D] Yes, I have a feeling I'm going to come across a lot of those situations.. You know, I was amazed that on the outside of the Woodland Scenics boxes no dimensions where given for their portals and neither did Walthers list them in their HO catalog.
Jarrell
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

Jarrell,
If you have decent size of access from the side, a removable hatch or cover is not nec. The problems of hiding a removable section that is so "in your face, up close" is not worth the trouble. Besides, if you glue down a 1/2" plywood deck over the foam supports, you could expand the trackage for the logging branch and lay roadbed directly on the ply. This base could also act as a foundation for any structures, etc.
Bob K.

Bob, when I got it up to 4 inches high (the foam 'supports' you see here) I was gonna put a piece of the 2 inch foam (a base piece) over that and then build up from there. Bad idea?
Jarrell

Jarrell,
The only reason for suggesting the ply is additional strength with minimum height- would help keep the grade lower for the climb. Less supports needed to have better side access for derailments and track cleaning.
Bob K.

This is true, it would be stronger. I think I need to do as Woodland Scenics suggest and that is sometimes it is better to start at the top of the incline and work your way down instead of the other way around. Right now I'm just about out of foam so I have to get more. Its a pretty big piece that will cover that area, the section that is the roof of the tunnel, that is.
Thanks for the suggestions Bob.
Jarrell

[Zandoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

QUOTE: Originally posted by Zandoz

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

Actually, there ARE curved turnouts available by Walthers-Shinohara. Unfortunately for us, they seem to pass over anything that could attach to a 22' radius curve. (18" then 24"...but NO 22"! That just completely mistifies me.. [V])

Tom

Model Power (Roco) had curved turnouts with the larger radius 22". The smaller was 18". I have several of them that I picked up years ago....but have had no chance to put them to use. I'm not sure when they stopped being available, but it may be worth keeping an eye out on ebay, and at train shows.

Zandoz,

Thanks, I didn't know that. But...I would assume that they are Code 100 and NOT Code 83. Yes?

I sure wi***hey'd come out with Code 83, 22" radius curved turnouts . Maybe I oughta just put a bug in Walthers and/or Peco's ear about that. Doesn't make sense to me...

Tom

Yes, you are correct... Code 100

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Zandoz

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

Actually, there ARE curved turnouts available by Walthers-Shinohara. Unfortunately for us, they seem to pass over anything that could attach to a 22' radius curve. (18" then 24"...but NO 22"! That just completely mistifies me.. [V])

Tom

Model Power (Roco) had curved turnouts with the larger radius 22". The smaller was 18". I have several of them that I picked up years ago....but have had no chance to put them to use. I'm not sure when they stopped being available, but it may be worth keeping an eye out on ebay, and at train shows.

Zandoz,

Thanks, I didn't know that. But...I would assume that they are Code 100 and NOT Code 83. Yes?

I sure wi***hey'd come out with Code 83, 22" radius curved turnouts . Maybe I oughta just put a bug in Walthers and/or Peco's ear about that. Doesn't make sense to me...

Tom

[bogp40]

Jarrell,
Regarding the portals- many single track portals may not be wide enough to use on a turn.
Side clearance for passenger cars on the inside of the track and pilot overhang clearance on the outside of the track must be checked. You may need to purchase the portals to check these clearances before finishing these areas. You definately should know what portal is to be installed before capping the tunnel, this way you can add backers for the tunnel liner to correspond to the portal shape and construction(cut stone, masonry block, concrete or wood). If a portal needs to be wider, you can cut and add to the concrete styles and hide the seams. For W/S masonry portal, 2 portals need to be used to make one. Cuts just passed the centerline on both and glue back together gives a wider portal that allows the stone work to blend (keystone will just be larger) Don't forget the top clearance for taller equipment if it is to be used. Don't ask how I found this out (What do you mean the double stacks hit the portal!)
Bob K.

[bogp40]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

Jarrell,
If you have decent size of access from the side, a removable hatch or cover is not nec. The problems of hiding a removable section that is so "in your face, up close" is not worth the trouble. Besides, if you glue down a 1/2" plywood deck over the foam supports, you could expand the trackage for the logging branch and lay roadbed directly on the ply. This base could also act as a foundation for any structures, etc.
Bob K.

Bob, when I got it up to 4 inches high (the foam 'supports' you see here) I was gonna put a piece of the 2 inch foam (a base piece) over that and then build up from there. Bad idea?
Jarrell

Jarrell,
The only reason for suggesting the ply is additional strength with minimum height- would help keep the grade lower for the climb. Less supports needed to have better side access for derailments and track cleaning.
Bob K.

[Zandoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

Actually, there ARE curved turnouts available by Walthers-Shinohara. Unfortunately for us, they seem to pass over anything that could attach to a 22' radius curve. (18" then 24"...but NO 22"! That just completely mistifies me.. [V])

Tom

Model Power (Roco) had curved turnouts with the larger radius 22". The smaller was 18". I have several of them that I picked up years ago....but have had no chance to put them to use. I'm not sure when they stopped being available, but it may be worth keeping an eye out on ebay, and at train shows.

[tstage]

Jarrell,

Actually, there ARE curved turnouts available by Walthers-Shinohara. Unfortunately for us, they seem to pass over anything that could attach to a 22' radius curve. (18" then 24"...but NO 22"! That just completely mistifies me.. [V])

Tom

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rayhippard

Jarrell,
My suggestion would be to run the passing siding around the curve all the way to the town and connect it to the mainline just like you did near the lumber company....
Ray---------Great Northern fan.

I didn't think you could put a turnout on a curve. Or is it you can, just don't curve the track back again too soon, like in a S?
Jarrell

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Jarrell, I measured my stone WS portals, and derived a considerably different measurement. Note, however, that I am using a single-wide portal on a single-track main, so the quote above might be for a double-wide.

My outer dimensions are: 6"X6"

Orifice is roughly (hard to get a tape in there for accurate measurement): 23/4" wide at track level, and about 3 3/4" high at the keystone,

The cast portal, itself, is about 3/4" thick.

Thanks Crandell. I should have said that it was for a single track. I appreciate the measurements. Man! I thought I had all kindsa room to play with..[:D]
Jarrell

Well, I'm afraid it gets a bit worse. I see that you have a portal tentatively set in the lower left of your upper-left loop. It is set on a curve. So are all of mine, at 22" radius. Depending on what you run through those portals, even foreseeably, you may get contact with the rolling stock, such as longer pax cars, on the inside edge of the portal, relative to the inside of the curve. You see what I mean, right? So, the trick (and I am not attempting to dissuade you from your plan, by the way), is to ensure that the portal is oriented very closely to 90 deg from the axis, or tangent, of the curve at the point where you place the portal. IOWs, don't have the portal angled relative to the track, but perfectly perpendicular. This gives you max clearances. Next, keeping that orientation, displace the portal about 1/4-3/8" toward the INSIDE of the curve. That is, the portal wall on the inside of the curve should afford the passing train the greater clearance. Your loco pilot, etc., should not foul the outer wall, but the best way to be sure is to PROVE THE TRACK before fixing anything into place.

Ain't it fun?

[Anonymous]

Jarrell,

RE Run arounds:

A lot of people on the forum overlook the need for these in the track plans I see posted. To explain why you need them it is helpful to define a couple of terms: Facing point move and trailing point move.

A facing point move is any turn out that relative to the direction of the train travel the locomotive has to pull inhto the siding head first. The locomotive is said to be facing the points. A trailing point move is a siding where relative to the direction of train travel the locomotive will back into the siding. Here the points are trailing behind the loco. You can see that any siding can have both moves depending on which direction you appoach it .

Consider what happens during each move:

Trailing point: This is real easy because the loco backs into the siding to get the cars and then pulls them out, backs them onto the train and keeps on movinig in the direction he was originally heading. Any moves to drop off and pick up cars are pretty easy.

Facing point: Now we are in trouble. The loco pulls in head first to get the cars and pull them out . The cars are on the front of the loco and the rest of the train is behind the loco. Unless the train wants to run the cars in front of the loco the rest of the trip, the loco must be able to get in front of the cars or run around them. In order to do this there must be a double ended siding that the loco can park the cars on and run past them back onto them and continue on. Any single spur from a mainline will have this problem depending on direction of travel for the approaching train. One direction will be trailing (no problem) the other wiill be facing point (needs run around)

Now most guys reading this are saying "no big deal, I'll just always make sure I switch trailing point". This can be done, but many times may not be possible given direction of train travel on the main. It also means that you rob some flexibility from the track plan and are forced to switch the same way and run trains from the same direction the whole time leading to boredom with the completed layout because of operational limitations.

Try out the plan with some cars on paper to get a feel for what I am talking about. Not every spur will have a run around, but large industries or major switching areas (say a bunch of industries) will generally have a run-around. In terms of running the layout you need a few or switching becomes boring (or worse, frustrating) and operation becomes mundane and predictable. I tore out my last layout partly because I hadn't planned for these....

Hope this helps....

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

#1 Are you going to have a lift out section in the tunnel area?
#2 In mho you should make space to get your hand in the tunnel ,hidden or otherwise! Other than that it is looking real good Jarrell[:p]BTW is that the messed up buliding?If so looks ok to me[^]

Jim

Jim, there will be access at the rear, actually the side, to get under the mountain to the tracks. I was just sitting here thinking how high to make it under there, if 4 inches would be enough, or should I go 6. I've also considered making the whole top removable but I'm concerned, with my limited skills, if I can conceal the seam properly.
Yep.. [:(] that's the building. I figured out a way to hide my dumb goof! Now I've got to paint and weather it so you guys are in for a boatload of questions!
Jarrell

Jarrell: By the way nice pictures of your trip,Seeing your granddaughter asleep,reminds me of my grandson who allways want to go fishing with grandpa,the in root to the fishing spots,he goes to sleep,I think the boat kind of hypnotizes him.Now he is old enough to run the boat and I sleep[^]anyway In MHO 4" sould be enough.
JIM

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by douort

QUOTE: Originally posted by douort

Jarrel,

I have a Woodland Scenics precast tunnel portal (stone) laying around and I measured it for you.

Outside, overall width is 8". Height is 5-1/2".

The opening is 4-5/8" wide and 4" high at the top of a slight arch.

Hope that helps.

Doug

Jarrell,

Sorry, if I mislead you on those dimensions. My WS portal was in an unmarked box and I didn't pay any attention as to whether or not it was single or double track. It looks a little wide for single track so it could be a double.

The NMRA HO track guage indicates you should have 2 1/16" clearance for a single track (side to side), so my original dimensions must have been for a double-track portal.

Doug

No problem Doug, I appreciate your help. I've already learned not to put things in 'cement' until the very last moment if I can help it. I need to go into town today so I'll stop by the LHS and see if they have a WS single portal in stock.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher

Jarell,

If you can make your access hole 6" high, I'd go for it. Just think how large your hand is when you're holding a piece of rolling stock -- 4" might be a bit tight.

Heed Ray's advice about your tunnel portal width at both "A" and "B". Do some test fits with your longest equipment before final instalation.

Ok, I'll make it as high as I can. The entire mountain/hill is going to be 8 inches high so I should be able to raise the height of the access hole.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

Now thats what model railroading is all about.

"Honey, I'll only need a little money, a little space and a little time and it'll all be built!"

Several thousand dollars, 20 years later and half the house taken over and you still have a long way to go on your "humble" pike! [8D]

Just remember, it's not done until you can't work on it any more (ie, you go to meet your maker!)

I remember when I first was talking to my wife about this and I told her that I thought I could do all the benchwork, foam and track for about $500 or so. This coming from a fella that hadn't bought or priced a 2x4 in years. Boy did I have a rude awakening at the Home Depot! Then I start the basic track plan and I find I can't do this or that so it's add more sidings, more turnouts and you know what ONE turnout can cost.
On top of that I get to a spot where I just stand and stare at it for long periods, trying to think ahead so I don't make a major, major goof. It reminds me of putting one of those thousand piece jigsaw puzzles together and you've got several pieces missing for the moment so you try to work around that part.
I take back eveything I said about finishing. I doubt I ever will..[(-D]
Jarrell

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by douort

Jarrel,

I have a Woodland Scenics precast tunnel portal (stone) laying around and I measured it for you.

Outside, overall width is 8". Height is 5-1/2".

The opening is 4-5/8" wide and 4" high at the top of a slight arch.

Hope that helps.

Doug

Jarrell,

Sorry, if I mislead you on those dimensions. My WS portal was in an unmarked box and I didn't pay any attention as to whether or not it was single or double track. It looks a little wide for single track so it could be a double.

The NMRA HO track guage indicates you should have 2 1/16" clearance for a single track (side to side), so my original dimensions must have been for a double-track portal.

Doug

[chateauricher]

Jarell,

If you can make your access hole 6" high, I'd go for it. Just think how large your hand is when you're holding a piece of rolling stock -- 4" might be a bit tight.

Heed Ray's advice about your tunnel portal width at both "A" and "B". Do some test fits with your longest equipment before final instalation.

[pcarrell]

Now thats what model railroading is all about.

"Honey, I'll only need a little money, a little space and a little time and it'll all be built!"

Several thousand dollars, 20 years later and half the house taken over and you still have a long way to go on your "humble" pike! [8D]

Just remember, it's not done until you can't work on it any more (ie, you go to meet your maker!)