The Cart Before The Horse?

[Medina1128]

This is my 2nd layout, but the first one that I've used foam for scenery on. This stuff is GREAT!! But, like you alluded to... It's not the destination, it IS the journey. And like I've heard on countless occasions, a model railroad IS never done. Enjoy your 'trip'.

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12
Can you come back and work on these things after you're dead and gone?

No, I'm afriad not...but that's an entirely different topic.

QUOTE:
At the rate I'm going I'll never finish...[xx(] Hmmm.... a Ghost Train...

Seriously, as a newbie the temptation to rush it is very big. I've got to learn to go slow and smell the roses along the way. Maybe the fun is the journey and not so much the destination.
Thanks Tom for the advice.
Jarrell

Yeah, I know what you mean. Even though some things have gone more slowly for me than I'd like, I have enjoyed the "journey" and the joy of learning about the history and what for's of RRing. That's been almost as interesting and intriguing as learning MRRing itself. My wife even enjoys me telling her some of the things I've learned. The commodary and helpfulness on the forum and the folks I've met at my LHSes has been another pleasant surprise.

Tom

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

If it's any consolation, it's been a dilemma for me, too. This is my first layout so I'm learning all sorts of stuff. But I find myself in a Catch-22 situation: Both my final track and layout designs are contingent on one another. So, I find myself going back and forth on what and wheres and not getting along as fast on my layout as I would like. [sigh] It's somewhat intimidating to ponder the fact that decisions you make now will dictate or limit what you can or can NOT do on your current layout down the road.

What initially has helped or narrowed my field - I know you've already done this - is to determine what era I'm going to model. Now I know what can and cannot go on my layout. There's actually a sense of comfort in those sorts of "restrictions". (Or "boundaries" - if that sounds less confining to you.)

However, since I don't have a plethora of background RR knowledge and experience, I've had to rely on books. Even then, that gleaning has come fairly slowly. IMHO, even the best MRR design references still have some trouble talking to the newbie in plain terms, often using terminology and jargon without giving a very clear explanation and/or assuming you know more - or at least should.

Jarrell, as you stated in another post, don't feel like you have to get things done next month. The beauty of foam is that you can "temporarily" layout and hold down track fairly securely with track spikes. (I've been doing that for the past year.) You can try out all your own "hair-brained" ideas without having to commit to it. If you don't like the design: Pull up the spikes, rearrange the track in a different configuration, and tack it down again. When experimenting with a new technique or idea, use a piece a scrap foam to "hone your skills" first before trying it out on your benchtop.

I read recently that using cardboard footprints or temporary mock ups helps with both visualizing your space and, as orsonroy pointed out, making sure you have enough room for all your ideas. I still like and hold to the philosophy that "simpler is better". Jarrell, don't feel you have to cram every nook and cranny of your layout with "stuff". There's something beautiful about a layout that is uncluttered. That's what I've appreciated so much about Pelle Soeborg's articles in MR recently.

I also like Chip's suggestion about 3rd Planit and think the idea is worth your careful consideration. It would help with the "visualizing" aspect of seeing and testing out your "creation" (in 3D space) BEFORE building, thereby avoiding or removing the possibility of committing to a design that you wish you'd had better foresight on initially.

Tom

P.S. Jarrell, I think you're doing a TERRIFIC job so far on everything. [^][tup][tup][tup] You're going to end up with one nice layout when you're done.

"It's somewhat intimidating to ponder the fact that decisions you make now will dictate or limit what you can or can NOT do on your current layout down the road."

That really is kinda scary, it really is!

"even the best MRR design references still have some trouble talking to the newbie in plain terms, often using terminology and jargon without giving a very clear explanation and/or assuming you know more - or at least should."

I know what you mean, I've run across that too. There is no substitute for experience either.

"You can try out all your own "hair-brained" ideas without having to commit to it. "

I've got a bunch of those!

"I still like and hold to the philosophy that "simpler is better"

I have to resist the temptation to fill it up. At first I was thinking that the more I have the more switching I could do so the more interesting it would be. There must be a fine balance between too much and too little.

"You're going to end up with one nice layout when you're done"

Can you come back and work on these things after you're dead and gone? At the rate I'm going I'll never finish...[xx(] Hmmm.... a Ghost Train...
Seriously, as a newbie the temptation to rush it is very big. I've got to learn to go slow and smell the roses along the way. Maybe the fun is the journey and not so much the destination.
Thanks Tom for the advice.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I'm going to have the layout planned down to the structures before I build benchwork. I did it the other way with my current 4 x 8 layout and nothing fits. I'm making some wierd compromises and it is coming together, but I wished I'd known more before I started. IT is a lot easier to frame for a turntable if you know exactly where it is going then to cut away a mountain or redo the benchwork after the mainline is glued down to find another spot for it.

Take about an hour of your time and download the demo version of 3rd Planit. Run the tutorial for a little while to the end of the first section. Then think about planning.

Chip, I'm going to download the trial version right now. I sure don't want to be cutting on bench work. I can just imagine the headaches that would cause. The backdrop would probably come apart, and... no.. I don't even want to think about it.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grande man

Model railroaders are always cramped for space. I'd have the building on hand or, at least, know it's dimensions. The hardshell and buildings are give and take once the track is down. That's one of the nice things about the Atlas software, it allows you to put popular buildings from different makers in to see if they fit when designing the track plan. The Walther's catalog also gives measurements on all their building kits. Sometimes it's tough to fit it all in on a shelf! Here's an example, the hardshell in the pic is cramped! It's only a few inches thick but looks fine when veiwed from the front. I almost didn't have room for it all!!! I'm glad I had the building on hand to fit it all in (it's just to the right in this pic).

Thanks Grandeman, I think you're right.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

I generally like to have the building on hand before I start slapping down sidings. That way, you're absolutely sure of clearances, and you can tell if the thing you dreamed up on paper really looks good in the flesh, BEFORE you get too far into the project!

Ray, from what you and the others have said I think it's a good idea. I've never done this before so I'm having trouble visualizing things in 3D. I stand in that room and look at all that blue foam and I try to imagine what will go where and what it would look like, but right now all I see is blue foam.
Thanks for your input.
Jarrell

[tstage]

Jarrell,

If it's any consolation, it's been a dilemma for me, too. This is my first layout so I'm learning all sorts of stuff. But I find myself in a Catch-22 situation: Both my final track and layout designs are contingent on one another. So, I find myself going back and forth on what and wheres and not getting along as fast on my layout as I would like. [sigh] It's somewhat intimidating to ponder the fact that decisions you make now will dictate or limit what you can or can NOT do on your current layout down the road.

What initially has helped or narrowed my field - I know you've already done this - is to determine what era I'm going to model. Now I know what can and cannot go on my layout. There's actually a sense of comfort in those sorts of "restrictions". (Or "boundaries" - if that sounds less confining to you.)

However, since I don't have a plethora of background RR knowledge and experience, I've had to rely on books. Even then, that gleaning has come fairly slowly. IMHO, even the best MRR design references still have some trouble talking to the newbie in plain terms, often using terminology and jargon without giving a very clear explanation and/or assuming you know more - or at least should.

Jarrell, as you stated in another post, don't feel like you have to get things done next month. The beauty of foam is that you can "temporarily" layout and hold down track fairly securely with track spikes. (I've been doing that for the past year.) You can try out all your own "hair-brained" ideas without having to commit to it. If you don't like the design: Pull up the spikes, rearrange the track in a different configuration, and tack it down again. When experimenting with a new technique or idea, use a piece a scrap foam to "hone your skills" first before trying it out on your benchtop.

I read recently that using cardboard footprints or temporary mock ups helps with both visualizing your space and, as orsonroy pointed out, making sure you have enough room for all your ideas. I still like and hold to the philosophy that "simpler is better". Jarrell, don't feel you have to cram every nook and cranny of your layout with "stuff". There's something beautiful about a layout that is uncluttered. That's what I've appreciated so much about Pelle Soeborg's articles in MR recently.

I also like Chip's suggestion about 3rd Planit and think the idea is worth your careful consideration. It would help with the "visualizing" aspect of seeing and testing out your "creation" (in 3D space) BEFORE building, thereby avoiding or removing the possibility of committing to a design that you wish you'd had better foresight on initially.

Tom

P.S. Jarrell, I think you're doing a TERRIFIC job so far on everything. [^][tup][tup][tup] You're going to end up with one nice layout when you're done.

[SpaceMouse]

I'm going to have the layout planned down to the structures before I build benchwork. I did it the other way with my current 4 x 8 layout and nothing fits. I'm making some wierd compromises and it is coming together, but I wished I'd known more before I started. IT is a lot easier to frame for a turntable if you know exactly where it is going then to cut away a mountain or redo the benchwork after the mainline is glued down to find another spot for it.

Take about an hour of your time and download the demo version of 3rd Planit. Run the tutorial for a little while to the end of the first section. Then think about planning.

[grandeman]

Model railroaders are always cramped for space. I'd have the building on hand or, at least, know it's dimensions. The hardshell and buildings are give and take once the track is down. That's one of the nice things about the Atlas software, it allows you to put popular buildings from different makers in to see if they fit when designing the track plan. The Walther's catalog also gives measurements on all their building kits. Sometimes it's tough to fit it all in on a shelf! Here's an example, the hardshell in the pic is cramped! It's only a few inches thick but looks fine when veiwed from the front. I almost didn't have room for it all!!! I'm glad I had the building on hand to fit it all in (it's just to the right in this pic).

[orsonroy]

I generally like to have the building on hand before I start slapping down sidings. That way, you're absolutely sure of clearances, and you can tell if the thing you dreamed up on paper really looks good in the flesh, BEFORE you get too far into the project!

[jacon12]

It's easy, when making track plans, to say.. I'd like a logging operation there and a saw mill here and a brick supplier down over there, then run track by those areas. But... you were waiting for the but weren't you. [:)]. is it wise to have a couple of structures on hand (great excuse to go buy a saw mill!!), or at least know the footprints of them, so that you know just how to place the track and how much space to allow? Or does it matter that much? Which comes first or do you kinda work it at the same time?
Jarrell