Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Attaching Track on a Diorama

2395 views
17 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Miles City, Montana
  • 2,289 posts
Attaching Track on a Diorama
Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, August 19, 2024 3:38 AM

Got yet another one for my Forum friends. (Warning this will get a bit long-winded.) I am the technical advisor to our local museum in rebuilding a destroyed rail yard diorama. (I'm the only model railroader of the bunch and famous or infamous in town for having a large model railroad.) I had been working on the display for a number of years before it was damaged. The wood base was warped beyond repair due to a roof leak a couple winters ago and it had weak spots before that anyway. (The building is not heated during September to April as museum is closed.) The issue with the roof has since been fixed.

What would be the "best" way to attach track given the following conditions: All flex track except for turnouts with some curves but mostly straight, non-powered rail (Display is static with no practical way to power the rail), attached directly to wood that has been painted to look like cinder ballast to match the era of the display, the possibility of "easy" removal in case of future damage to display (I hope it never happens again but it is wise to plan ahead) and the unheated building. (It has some A/C during the summer.)

The old track was attached with track nails but they were hard to remove from what I was told (I was not involved with that aspect of the process.) and some track was damaged. (More track has been ordered to have onhand for replacement as needed.)

I'm leaning toward using the chaulk method that I have read about but I've never used it or even seen how it works, especially with flex track. I have also thought about using a different type of nail. (Something closer to a 1/2" or 5/8" household nail which is what I have used for my own layout except with 3/4" nails.)

As a mural is going to be painted on the back wall of the display space before the track is replaced and none of the prep work has happened yet, I figure it will be next year before the track gets reinstalled so this is not an immediate need.

As usual, any ideas that can be provided would be most welcomed.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
  • Member since
    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
  • 6,257 posts
Posted by "JaBear" on Monday, August 19, 2024 5:17 AM
I must admit I’m a great fan of nails, Peco track nails to be precise, mainly because they are relativity easy to take up if track needs to be realigned / fettled.
  
However, as this is a nonpowered diorama and if I had no ready supply of nails, I would perhaps use caulk. The method I would use is the one Mark Pruitt uses which can be seen here, don’t ask me which specific video though! I am quite taken how he uses soda (soft drink) cans laid on their side, to weigh the track down while the caulk dries.
 
 
My 2 Cents Cheers, the Bear. Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

  • Member since
    October 2020
  • 3,604 posts
Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, August 19, 2024 5:52 AM

I agree with Bear regarding Peco  nails.

I have never used caulk, so cannot answer.

My method on my layout is use Peco nails pinning the track to the board and dry ballasting.   (Ballast is not glued down.)   

David 

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
  • 2,311 posts
Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, August 19, 2024 12:28 PM

Hello All,

I presume you mean "caulk" and not "chaulk".

On my pike, the foam roadbed is caulked to the foam base.

Even when the caulk is cured, if I need to reposition the foam roadbed it peels up easily and cleanly without damaging the foam base.

I use GE brand Clear Silicone I or II caulk.

Apparently, the difference between the two is that Silicon II is, "Rain-Ready in 30 minutes."

I hold the foam roadbed in place with "T" pins and allow to cure for a full 24-hours.

For some, the smell of curing caulk is a dealbreaker.

I use Wire Brads (#19 x 5/8" [1.0mm x 15.9mm]) to temporarily hold the track in place while working out any problems.

Then I mix powdered Dap® brand Plastic Resin Glue with the ballast at a ratio of 4 parts ballast to 1 part resin glue, by volume.

It is spread over the track and roadbed using a 1-inch foam brush and dress with a 1-inch silicone basting brush. 

Then 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, tinted with India ink, is sprayed over the ballast powered glue mixture.

If I need to remove the ballasted track, I simply wet it with warm water, let it soak for a few minutes and pull it up.

Check out this thread for more details...

Instant Track-Tackit Ballast Adhesive Questions

Regarding the warped wood base- -if you can- -replace it with 2-inch extruded foam which is resistant to temperature and humidity fluctuations.

Many people deride my use of foam roadbed and extol the virtues of Homasote®.

Homasote® is a compressed paper product and- -unless properly sealed- -swells with moisture and humidity. 

Good luck with your project, and as always...

Hope this helps.

Post Script: After the ballast has dried I remove the wire brads that held the track in place. H.T.H., J.J.D.I.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,907 posts
Posted by maxman on Monday, August 19, 2024 12:47 PM

Anything special about Peco track nails versus Atlas, or is it an availability thing?

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, August 19, 2024 12:56 PM

jjdamnit

Hello All,

I presume you mean "caulk" and not "chaulk".

On my pike, the foam roadbed is caulked to the foam base.

Even when the caulk is cured, if I need to reposition the foam roadbed it peels up easily and cleanly without damaging the foam base.

I use GE brand Clear Silicone I or II caulk.

Apparently, the difference between the two is that Silicon II is, "Rain-Ready in 30 minutes."

I hold the foam roadbed in place with "T" pins and allow to cure for a full 24-hours.

For some, the smell of curing caulk is a dealbreaker.

I use Wire Brads (#19 x 5/8" [1.0mm x 15.9mm]) to temporarily hold the track in place while working out any problems.

Then I mix powdered Dap® brand Plastic Resin Glue in with the ballast at a ratio of 4 parts ballast to 1 part resin glue, by volume.

It is spread over the track and roadbed using a 1-inch foam brush and dress with a 1-inch silicone basting brush. 

Then 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, tinted with India ink, is sprayed over the ballast powered glue mixture.

If I need to remove the ballasted track, I simply wet it with warm water, let it soak for a few minutes and pull it up.

Check out this thread for more details...

Instant Track-Tackit Ballast Adhesive Questions

Regarding the warped wood base- -if you can- -replace it with 2-inch extruded foam which is resistant to temperature and humidity fluctuations.

Many people deride my use of foam roadbed and extol the virtues of Homasote®.

Homasote® is a compressed paper product and, unless properly sealed, swells with moisture and humidity. 

Good luck with your project, and as always...

Hope this helps.

 

JJ, it is interesting to read your procedure. It is totally different from mine, but it just goes to show that there is not only one way to achieve satisfactory results. Thanks for posting that. 

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
  • 2,311 posts
Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, August 19, 2024 3:52 PM

Hello All,

richhotrain- -thank you for your kind and respectful response. 

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Miles City, Montana
  • 2,289 posts
Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, August 20, 2024 3:10 AM

jjdamnit

I presume you mean "caulk" and not "chaulk".

Yes, that's what I meant.

As for using roadbed, I'm not going to use roadbed or ballast. As the display has a four foot wall in front of it and the deck is at the bottom of that, most of the people that see the display won't notice the lack of bedding especially with the new deck painted to represent ballast over the whole yard. I actually have to use a step stool on both sides to get in and out.

jjdamnit

I use Wire Brads (#19 x 5/8" [1.0mm x 15.9mm]) to temporarily hold the track in place while working out any problems.

I actually have used wire brads like that for my own layout as I have kept changing my mind on track layout. The ones I use I think are 3/4" due to going through roadbed and into the deck. (I think I'm finally happy with what I currently have.) I also had the thought to use that same idea if I can't figure the caulk out.

jjdamnit

Regarding the warped wood base- -if you can- -replace it with 2-inch extruded foam which is resistant to temperature and humidity fluctuations.

A new wood base has already been installed and the deck is also the work surface so foam wouldn't be a good idea. (I walked and sat on the new deck to paint it. I also walked and sat on the old deck as well although it had a few weak spots even before the water damage that I learned to avoid.)

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
  • Member since
    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
  • 6,257 posts
Posted by "JaBear" on Tuesday, August 20, 2024 5:04 AM

maxman
Anything special about Peco track nails versus Atlas, or is it an availability thing?

Not really to do with availability, but I prefer Peco Track nails as they have smaller heads than the Altas ones, making them more unobtrusive, easier to disguise.
 
¼My 2 Cents Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,907 posts
Posted by maxman on Tuesday, August 20, 2024 10:03 AM

 

 
maxman
Anything special about Peco track nails versus Atlas, or is it an availability thing?

 

Not really to do with availability, but I prefer Peco Track nails as they have smaller heads than the Altas ones, making them more unobtrusive, easier to disguise.
 
¼My 2 Cents Cheers, the Bear.Smile
 

thanks

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,780 posts
Posted by snjroy on Monday, August 26, 2024 10:26 AM

Interesting thread. I use nails, but I drill a hole first to make it easier to insert/remove.

Simon

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Miles City, Montana
  • 2,289 posts
Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, August 27, 2024 2:23 AM

snjroy

Interesting thread. I use nails, but I drill a hole first to make it easier to insert/remove.

Simon

That's an interesting thought. What nails do you use and what size drill bit do you use?

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,780 posts
Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, August 28, 2024 9:39 PM

I use Atlas nails, but I would'nt know what bit size. Just use something slightly smaller than the nail. I use a pin vise to drill the hole.

Simon

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Miles City, Montana
  • 2,289 posts
Posted by FRRYKid on Thursday, August 29, 2024 2:21 AM

snjroy

I use Atlas nails, but I would'nt know what bit size. Just use something slightly smaller than the nail. I use a pin vise to drill the hole.

Simon

I have enough calipers that I think I figure it out. Thank you for the suggestion.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, August 29, 2024 6:04 AM

FRRYKid
 
snjroy

I use Atlas nails, but I would'nt know what bit size. Just use something slightly smaller than the nail. I use a pin vise to drill the hole.

Simon 

I have enough calipers that I think I figure it out. Thank you for the suggestion.

I use a #58 drill bit (0.042" diameter) in a pin vise to drill pilot holes for HO scale track nails. I have done this for years with great results every time. 
 
You could mark the drill bit with a Sharpie pen to indicate the point at which you want to stop drilling the hole. That way, you can stop short to leave the nail head just above the track tie. Then, use a nail punch to finish the nail. It makes it a lot easier if you ever have to remove the nail to lift the track.
 
Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,907 posts
Posted by maxman on Friday, August 30, 2024 11:08 AM

Since I'm a Homasote user, I don't need to pre-drill.  Nails just push in.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, August 30, 2024 3:47 PM

Just as a note: the 'caulk' used here is acrylic caulk, not 'silicone' or long-life caulk (which is the stinky vinegar cure).

The caulk can be pre-tinted or loaded with colored aggregate before being spread; it does not have to go on 'straight from the caulking gun' (see SAP for tinting plaster brown or gray when making scenery...)

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
  • 2,311 posts
Posted by jjdamnit on Friday, August 30, 2024 5:15 PM

Hello All,

Overmod
Just as a note: the 'caulk' used here is acrylic caulk, not 'silicone' or long-life caulk (which is the stinky vinegar cure).

Not me- -I specified...

jjdamnit
I use GE brand Clear Silicone I or II caulk.
Apparently, the difference between the two is that Silicon II is, "Rain-Ready in 30 minutes."

For some, the smell of curing caulk is a dealbreaker.

Just for clarification.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!