Actually I was suggesting splitting off the engine facilities from the upper part of the track plan and putting that part on the peninsula.
maxman Okay, I didn't see that there was an open area where you now have it marked. I ASSumed that was covered by benchwork. Me bad. Anyway, since this area seems to be a possible highly detailed focalpoint, is there any way you might consider separating the entire area from the top part of your plan and swinging it around 90 degrees counter-clockwise to form a peninsula in the center of your space ?
Okay, I didn't see that there was an open area where you now have it marked. I ASSumed that was covered by benchwork. Me bad.
Anyway, since this area seems to be a possible highly detailed focalpoint, is there any way you might consider separating the entire area from the top part of your plan and swinging it around 90 degrees counter-clockwise to form a peninsula in the center of your space ?
MSM, you're planning an incredible layout! Kudos! My two cents, I think Maxman's peninsula suggestion is a very wise change. IMO, the big yards are absolutely gorgeous on a peninsula! They are easier for the operators to see what they need to see plus provide ready access to all parts of the yard. Visitors can see the yard from several angles and appreciate all the effort and fine work to develop and maintain such a yard! A win-win idea in my book!
York1 I want to add a comment without making it sound like, or being, a criticism. First, I'm impressed that you set up a mock-up of the layout to try out different arrangements, reaches, etc. That shows great planning on your part. Second, I have a friend that I have known for 50 years. When I first met him in our 20s, he was planning a layout. He made drawing after drawing, changing things to make it better. All that time, he also was buying track, cars, locomotives, etc. After months (years) of planning, he finally started construction. He spent lots of time building, taking apart, building, changing,... Long story short, he is now 75 years old. He grew tired of planning and changing, and he ended up taking long breaks from railroading. He has never had a train running. The last time I talked to him, he was debating whether he would be selling his hundreds of cars, locomotives, etc. I believe he is honestly depressed over his lack of building something that he would have loved. I guess I'm saying that it's good you are planning, but I would advise not to overplan. There's nothing so encouraging as actually attaching some wires, putting a locomotive on the track, and watching it move. If you go ahead and build, and there's something wrong, you can always change it. Please take my comment as just my attempt at a helpful idea, and in no way means that you should or should not do what you have been doing or want to do. I'm looking forward to your layout building, and I hope you continue to share your progress.
I want to add a comment without making it sound like, or being, a criticism.
First, I'm impressed that you set up a mock-up of the layout to try out different arrangements, reaches, etc. That shows great planning on your part.
Second, I have a friend that I have known for 50 years. When I first met him in our 20s, he was planning a layout. He made drawing after drawing, changing things to make it better. All that time, he also was buying track, cars, locomotives, etc.
After months (years) of planning, he finally started construction. He spent lots of time building, taking apart, building, changing,...
Long story short, he is now 75 years old. He grew tired of planning and changing, and he ended up taking long breaks from railroading.
He has never had a train running. The last time I talked to him, he was debating whether he would be selling his hundreds of cars, locomotives, etc. I believe he is honestly depressed over his lack of building something that he would have loved.
I guess I'm saying that it's good you are planning, but I would advise not to overplan. There's nothing so encouraging as actually attaching some wires, putting a locomotive on the track, and watching it move.
If you go ahead and build, and there's something wrong, you can always change it.
Please take my comment as just my attempt at a helpful idea, and in no way means that you should or should not do what you have been doing or want to do.
I'm looking forward to your layout building, and I hope you continue to share your progress.
NorthBrit One thing I have found regarding reach to the outer parts of the layout is, to be able to put one hand on the layout and reach out with the other. Thereby steadying myself as I stretch over. Just a thought that helped me. David
One thing I have found regarding reach to the outer parts of the layout is, to be able to put one hand on the layout and reach out with the other. Thereby steadying myself as I stretch over.
Just a thought that helped me.
David
David,
Good point, thanks for your comment.
MSM
Well said, John.
Getting something running spurs a person to build on further.
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
York1 John
RR_Mel I have a 32” reach to my roundhouse stall doors and that is out of my reach to get inside, I’m 6’2” with my layout at 35” above the floor. As Rich said if a locomotive has problem in the roundhouse I have to use a grabber tool and pull it closer to pick it up. I bought a Topside Creeper in the late 90s and that helps. Everything looked good during construction (I was 52) but now if I need to remove a locomotive it ain’t easy even with the help of the Topside Creeper.I think having the roundhouse roof easily removable is a must no mater where it is located.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
I have a 32” reach to my roundhouse stall doors and that is out of my reach to get inside, I’m 6’2” with my layout at 35” above the floor. As Rich said if a locomotive has problem in the roundhouse I have to use a grabber tool and pull it closer to pick it up. I bought a Topside Creeper in the late 90s and that helps. Everything looked good during construction (I was 52) but now if I need to remove a locomotive it ain’t easy even with the help of the Topside Creeper.I think having the roundhouse roof easily removable is a must no mater where it is located.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
Mel,
Colorado Ray Sometimes I think we worry too much about access and reach. There are a lot of great layouts with a 36" reach. I'm working on a layout plan with an area that will have a 32" reach. Like you, I was going to have a removable front section, but while planning the bench work it just got too complicated so I'll live with the reach. I'm not a fan of foam, so my benchwork will be strong enough to lean on for the tough to reach area. I really like your yard layout and envy you for having enough space for such a nice yard. The only suggestion I'd offer is to consider lengthening the roundhouse tracks and putting more space between the turntable and the stall doors. Ray
Sometimes I think we worry too much about access and reach. There are a lot of great layouts with a 36" reach. I'm working on a layout plan with an area that will have a 32" reach. Like you, I was going to have a removable front section, but while planning the bench work it just got too complicated so I'll live with the reach. I'm not a fan of foam, so my benchwork will be strong enough to lean on for the tough to reach area.
I really like your yard layout and envy you for having enough space for such a nice yard. The only suggestion I'd offer is to consider lengthening the roundhouse tracks and putting more space between the turntable and the stall doors.
Ray
MSM Ed, Could you be more specific, I just can't seem to wrap my head around what your suggesting? Might also move only the roundhouse and approach tracks over to the trackage on the right. Basically separate the shop area and the roundhouse area--leave one up top, and put one to the right.
Ed,
Could you be more specific, I just can't seem to wrap my head around what your suggesting?
Might also move only the roundhouse and approach tracks over to the trackage on the right.
Basically separate the shop area and the roundhouse area--leave one up top, and put one to the right.
That's what I had in mind.
I like the blackone, so how any would a decent size yard have?
It's not a yard switcher; it's a shop switcher. It's made all stubby like that so it can fit on a transfer table or a turntable along with its "load".
You would likely only have one, and it would likely be for the shops. Not for the roundhouse (though they could likely borrow it, if necessary) and not for any other switching.
If you do an image search for "steam shop switcher", you'll see some samples for other roads besides the UP.
They aren't quite like other tank engines, as the shop switchers are set up to be as short as possible. That's usually not the case for most tank engines. I will say that a "Dockside" might be an affordable stand-in.
Ed
Colorado RaySometimes I think we worry too much about access and reach.
And sometimes we don't worry enough. If a poll were taken of those who have a great layout with a 36 inch reach, I wonder what the answer would be if they were asked the "what would you do different" question.
I believe that there is a theorem that suggests that whatever can go wrong will go wrong, and an associated theorem that suggests that when something does go wrong it will usually be at the most inaccessible location and at the most inopportune time.
7j43k Might also move only the roundhouse and approach tracks over to the trackage on the right. Basically separate the shop area and the roundhouse area--leave one up top, and put one to the right. Might want to buy one of these: for the shop switcher. North Platte had a very similar one. Or, on noting the layout of the engine facilities, perhaps this one is the better choice: Ed
Might want to buy one of these:
for the shop switcher. North Platte had a very similar one.
Or, on noting the layout of the engine facilities, perhaps this one is the better choice:
maxman I agree w/Rich about not trying to discourage you. That said, I still believe that the swing out thing is not as practical as it appears. You will still have a 3 to 4 foot reach to the left to reach the roundhouse, and that doesn't allow for reaching over the coaling dock. I don't have any personal experience with swing outs, but it appears that yours will have a part of a structure attached, plus all the tracks which will have to be aligned each time the swing out is moved, plus the removal of any rolling stock that happens to be on the swing out. I also think that a swing out should be used for occasional access. If you find that you need to operate it multiple times during a play session I believe that you will soon take a hammer to it. Regards
I agree w/Rich about not trying to discourage you.
That said, I still believe that the swing out thing is not as practical as it appears.
You will still have a 3 to 4 foot reach to the left to reach the roundhouse, and that doesn't allow for reaching over the coaling dock.
I don't have any personal experience with swing outs, but it appears that yours will have a part of a structure attached, plus all the tracks which will have to be aligned each time the swing out is moved, plus the removal of any rolling stock that happens to be on the swing out.
I also think that a swing out should be used for occasional access. If you find that you need to operate it multiple times during a play session I believe that you will soon take a hammer to it.
Regards
Maxman,
I agree that the swing out is not as practical as it appears and would welcome any suggestions because I personally don’t see any alternatives.
Thanks - MSM
richhotrain MSM, let me backtrack a bit here. My intention is not to discourage you from building and operating a 20-stall roundhouse. 20 stalls will look pretty cool. I have seen a couple of layouts that incorporate a near complete circle of stalls. My only concern is access because turntables and roundhouses can be a real trouble point on layouts. You might construct a mock roundhouse out of cardboard and test whether it will be difficult to reach any of the stalls. Rich
MSM, let me backtrack a bit here. My intention is not to discourage you from building and operating a 20-stall roundhouse. 20 stalls will look pretty cool. I have seen a couple of layouts that incorporate a near complete circle of stalls.
My only concern is access because turntables and roundhouses can be a real trouble point on layouts. You might construct a mock roundhouse out of cardboard and test whether it will be difficult to reach any of the stalls.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain MSM, if you do have the access, that will be very helpful. I only have a 9-stall roundhouse, but I have purposely left the roof panels unglued so that I can get at the locomotives in the stalls if I need to. "Stall" is a good word because I have experienced steamers stalling inside the roundhouse. Each roundhouse track is powered, but in my experience steam engines have more start up problems than diesels. On my prior layout, I did not have good access since I had to reach across yard tracks to access the stalls. On my current layout, the roundhouse sits on a peninsula, so I can reach the stalls from either side or from behind by lifting roof panels. But, again, I only have 9-stalls. I would have more concern with dealing with 20-stalls. Turntables and roundhouses are cool, but they are the biggest trouble spot on my layout. Rich
MSM, if you do have the access, that will be very helpful.
I only have a 9-stall roundhouse, but I have purposely left the roof panels unglued so that I can get at the locomotives in the stalls if I need to.
"Stall" is a good word because I have experienced steamers stalling inside the roundhouse. Each roundhouse track is powered, but in my experience steam engines have more start up problems than diesels.
On my prior layout, I did not have good access since I had to reach across yard tracks to access the stalls. On my current layout, the roundhouse sits on a peninsula, so I can reach the stalls from either side or from behind by lifting roof panels.
But, again, I only have 9-stalls. I would have more concern with dealing with 20-stalls.
Turntables and roundhouses are cool, but they are the biggest trouble spot on my layout.
richhotrain It is a very ambitious track plan, but I have to join others in expressing concern over accessibility. Of particular concern is the top portion on the layout where the track plan is most complex and where so much can go wrong. I also wonder about access to the roundhouse. I count 20 stalls. Under the best of circumstances that is a lot to deal with. Will you have access to all of those stalls, again where so much can go wrong? Rich
It is a very ambitious track plan, but I have to join others in expressing concern over accessibility. Of particular concern is the top portion on the layout where the track plan is most complex and where so much can go wrong.
I also wonder about access to the roundhouse. I count 20 stalls. Under the best of circumstances that is a lot to deal with. Will you have access to all of those stalls, again where so much can go wrong?
Access is sure one of my concerns. The drawing below highlights detailed measurements of what I thought would be adequate for access. Is this sufficient or do I need to make additional changes?
Thanks for your comment - MSM
maxman If one square equals one foot, then it appears to me that the width at the top is at least 6 feet, which means a 36 inch reach at some points.
If one square equals one foot, then it appears to me that the width at the top is at least 6 feet, which means a 36 inch reach at some points.
Good call...
Correct, but to the right of the sand bins I've incorporated a swingout section that would make the maximun reach about about 32 1/2"
IDRick Interesting design! I'm an old guy and I always look at access. I have some questions. Will this layout be around the walls? How will you get into the center of the layout? Duckunder, swinging gate, lift gate, or drop gate? What is the width of the layout at the top of the page? Will you have access to both sides or just from the center? Access to the north yard would be limited and challenging for track maintenance, righting cars, etc.
Interesting design! I'm an old guy and I always look at access. I have some questions. Will this layout be around the walls? How will you get into the center of the layout? Duckunder, swinging gate, lift gate, or drop gate? What is the width of the layout at the top of the page? Will you have access to both sides or just from the center? Access to the north yard would be limited and challenging for track maintenance, righting cars, etc.