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Grain elevator' storage bin without doors

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  • From: Southern Québec
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Grain elevator' storage bin without doors
Posted by ModelTrain on Wednesday, April 28, 2021 7:50 PM

Hi everyone!

I am still modeling my grain elevator from Walthers. I have finished modeling the elevator but now I am building one of the two other buildings in this kit, a storage bin. The problem is that there are no doors on this little building.

My stupid questions are:

1. What is the use of this building in relation to the grain elevator?

2. How can they store something inside this building if there are no doors?

Thanks for your help!

Bin

Stef

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, April 28, 2021 9:30 PM

 

Mine has a door.

I often don't like the door(s) that come with many kits and have modified many. It should be easy enough to make a door, just look at mine for guidance.

The storage bin was just that, used for storage. The grain would be transferred back to the elevator for train loading.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by ModelTrain on Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:37 AM

BATMAN

 

Mine has a door.

I often don't like the door(s) that come with many kits and have modified many. It should be easy enough to make a door, just look at mine for guidance.

The storage bin was just that, used for storage. The grain would be transferred back to the elevator for train loading.

 

Do you have the same Walther kit than me? If yes, I don't understand why yours have a door and not mine.

And I am not sure I understand why this building was used. You said it was used for storage. Why, then, the grain is not brought directly to the grain elevator instead of putting it in this storage bin? Do they put grain in the storage bin because the grain elevator was full and could not receive more grain?

Stef

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:55 AM

Generally a correct observation.  My understainding is that the building is supposed to be a storage bin.  Storage bins are for storing excess grain and would have the loading pipe.  If it was my kit, I'd probably abutt it to the main building as best I could and assume egress happens through the walls.  The Walthers illustration shows the building to be separated.

Looks like a close prototype for the Walthers Valley Growers kit.

 Sometimes kit manufacturers simplify the kits as they are rerun.  Maybe yours doesn't have the little extra bump up to the roof line.

- Douglas

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Posted by ModelTrain on Thursday, April 29, 2021 6:01 AM

Doughless

Generally a correct observation.  My understainding is that the building is supposed to be a storage bin.  Storage bins are for storing excess grain and would have the loading pipe.  If it was my kit, I'd probably abutt it to the main building as best I could and assume egress happens through the walls.  The Walthers illustration shows the building to be separated.

Looks like a close prototype for the Walthers Valley Growers kit.

 Sometimes kit manufacturers simplify the kits as they are rerun.  Maybe yours doesn't have the little extra bump up to the roof line.

 

Thanks Douglas.

I think I will do as you suggest, put the bin very close to the grain elevator and paint it in the same colour.

Stef

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Posted by ModelTrain on Thursday, April 29, 2021 6:29 AM

Finally, it's impossible to put the storage bin very close to the grain elevator because the building is too large and the truck alley is blocking the way. If I put the storage bin on the side, I will still block the trains coming in. The office can and will be glued to the grain office but not the bin.

Maybe I should use this building for something else?

Stef

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 29, 2021 6:42 AM

Its a model.  A representation.  If it doesnt fit I would just put it how Walthers has it or somewhere convenient where a loading pipe would make sense.  I'd probably add the loading pipe and put a scrap door somewhere.

I'm not a grain expert, but with a big steel bin, you can load with a pipe or auger.

 

  

Or use an auger near the door for unloading.

I simply google searched grain bin images

 I agree.  I would think the model should come with a door or a pipe, but our model structure kits typically come with less detail.  If you look closely, real structures have way more details than our represenatitive models do. 

Many folks will build the kits as built or slightly altered, then go back later and super detail the structures as part of the finishing touches of a completed layout.

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:15 AM

Our kit came with a rotating roof vent, windows in each end and two sliding doors, boxcar style on each long wall. It sits on piles and the floor is the height of a merchandise truck, roughly. 

Our building would not be suitable for use as a grain bin. Grain is pretty heavy stuff. The windows would break (and you wouldn't use a windowed building for grain anyway).  

Walthers instruction sheet clearly shows all of these features. The web link to the structure is:

https://www.walthers.com/farmers-cooperative-rural-grain-elevator-kit-elevator-8-7-8-x-7-1-4-x-10-quot-23-x-18-x-25cm

And the instructions are in .pdf accessible from that page.

https://www.walthers.com/amfile/file/download/file/xWTOP3nZzAK9RbRK4lor92B4hS2Pw3CU/product/421782/

 Note those curious about electric lighting (and power) to the elevators will find answers in the text. The extent of electric lighting is not detailed. The delay due to lack of grid power for electric lighting is noted.  

This outbuilding is not described in the instructions as a storage building. As modelled is not for grain. It shows the roof vent, four sliding doors and two end windows.

Remember that these elevator sidings could serve as a freight spur and a building like this, loadable from a truck bed, would serve as a general freight depot for the locality. We plan to locate ours alongside the elevator siding with one long wall with doors alongside the rails and the opposite side lined up with the gravel road serving the elevator loading floor. In fact, the Walthers instruction sheet says exactly that.

Granaries on farms were generally small square wooden buildings on skids. Relics are still seen and the much prized antique "barn wood " is often from these old granaries.  These small buildings would be size limited by the strength of the wood (bursting strength) and the need to skid them from place to place by a team of horses. 

Armco style galvanized steel round granaries (grain bind) are loaded by augur  the top and, as far as I know, augured out from a port in the bottom. These are also skid mounted or, if enough money is available, sat by their own weight on concrete pads. They get moved around when empty. 

Alyth Yard

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:38 AM

ModelTrain

Hi everyone!

I am still modeling my grain elevator from Walthers. I have finished modeling the elevator but now I am building one of the two other buildings in this kit, a storage bin. The problem is that there are no doors on this little building.

My stupid questions are:

1. What is the use of this building in relation to the grain elevator?

2. How can they store something inside this building if there are no doors?

Thanks for your help!

Bin

 

Your kit is different from the one currently advertised as being priced with a special model discount and also out of stock! 

Can you post the Walthers kit model number or check for a web site link so we can find the product you have? 

That's a large grain storage building (if it is such a building)  but not implausible. Such a building would have a loading hatch, probably several, cut high into the walls and some sort of low placed access door, not man height but  large enough for a person to get in. The model is definitely not accurate for a grain bin.

This building should be on piles or skids for moisture and vermin control. Commonly lined with "tin" at least on the floor and up the walls for some distance. 

This building could be filled from an elevator spout but before grain augurs would be shovelled out by hand. These buildings were not commonly that large before augurs.

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:42 AM

Since OP mentioned grain elevator kit, I believe it is the Valley Growers Association Elevator.

Walthers - Valley Growers Association - Kit - 933-3251

Walthers - Valley Growers Association Steel Grain Elevator - Kit - 933-3096

- Douglas

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:51 AM

Lastspikemike
Your kit is different from the one currently advertised as being priced with a special model discount and also out of stock!  Can you post the Walthers kit model number or check for a web site link so we can find the product you have?  That's a large grain storage building (if it is such a building)  but not implausible. Such a building would have a loading hatch, probably several, cut high into the walls and some sort of low placed access door, not man height but  large enough for a person to get in. The model is definitely not accurate for a grain bin. This building should be on piles or skids for moisture and vermin control. Commonly lined with "tin" at least on the floor and up the walls for some distance.  This building could be filled from an elevator spout but before grain augurs would be shovelled out by hand. These buildings were not commonly that large before augurs.

Mike, Walthers makes another rural grain elevator kit, that has a different out building.

Do you know what this outbuilding would be used for storing?  The doors seem too big and floppy to be storing loose grain.  Walthers seems to think it belongs next to the tracks for loading or unloading.

HO Scale Structures : Hobby Shop, Model Railroading Model Trains RC Cars  Radio Control Cars Train Sets

Amazon.com: Walthers, Inc. op Rural Grain Elevator Kit: Toys & Games

 

- Douglas

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Thursday, April 29, 2021 9:19 AM

That's the one we have. The doors and piles mean the floor will be at boxcar floor height. These buildings would serve as a type of general freight depot served by the elevator siding on one side and a road on the opposite long side. Given the way boxcars were spotted for loading grain and then when loaded rolled along the siding for storage until the pick up locomotive arrived it would be logical for the freight shed to be located between the elevator and the points if the siding sloped down from the main and the other way if the siding sloped up from the points (I would think that orientation would very much be the exception). 

Alyth Yard

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 29, 2021 9:20 AM

ModelTrain
What is the use of this building in relation to the grain elevator?

It just stores excess grain from the elevator. It would be filled by a small pipe to the roof from the elevator.

ModelTrain
How can they store something inside this building if there are no doors?

It is easier, and stronger, to construct the storage bin without a door. Some have access hatches in the roof, and some do have doors.

Very little grain would enter this building. It would be unloaded by an auger being inserted through a small opening in a wall.

This is a typical unloading auger in a steel grain bin. The one used on that wooden building would be something similar.

Doughless
Do you know what this outbuilding would be used for storing?  The doors seem too big and floppy to be storing loose grain.  Walthers seems to think it belongs next to the tracks for loading or unloading.

Doug, that one just looks like a generic rural storage building to me. I do not think it would be for bulk grain. I have no idea why it would be next the the track like that.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 29, 2021 9:49 AM

Lastspikemike

That's the one we have. The doors and piles mean the floor will be at boxcar floor height. These buildings would serve as a type of general freight depot served by the elevator siding on one side and a road on the opposite long side. Given the way boxcars were spotted for loading grain and then when loaded rolled along the siding for storage until the pick up locomotive arrived it would be logical for the freight shed to be located between the elevator and the points if the siding sloped down from the main and the other way if the siding sloped up from the points (I would think that orientation would very much be the exception). 

 

Yeah, I figured it was general purpose but could not quite understand why such an elevator would have a need for a relatively large freight shed.

Its a nice gp building to place elsewhere.

In Southern GA, they have peanut farms and peanut processing facilities.  They have a grain operation look to them but some of the buildings have unique shapes.  Some of the properties are dotted with small storage bins or gp buildings all over the complex like the two buildings in question.  Wooden, old, probably been there for decades.

- Douglas

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:17 AM

There was often a freight shed on the elevator siding usually owned by the Co-op that ran the elevator. Supplies, bags of specialized feed supplements as an example would be dropped off.

Here are some of my pics including my trip to Vulcan.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't forget to use "dated" track on your elevator siding.Laugh

 

 

 

And if you want to add some details that can be seen through the open door.

 

 

 

Some of the elevators had the winch and cables in place that were used to pull the rail cars along and at one there was a pile of 64 old switch stands off in the grass.

Visiting these old elevators is like being on the "Life After People" TV show. The elevators are open and accessible without another soul around for miles.

Next time you drive across the Prairies take the back roads, it can be like stepping back in time. Driving a forty-mile stretch of section road I let my 14-year-old daughter drive the truck for a while. Why not all the farm kids were doing it.Laugh

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:28 AM

Doughless
In Southern GA, they have peanut farms and peanut processing facilities.  They have a grain operation look to them but some of the buildings have unique shapes.

I took this picture near Ashburn, Georgia in 2016. The sign had the name of a peanut company, but I have no idea what this building actually is used for.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Thursday, April 29, 2021 2:13 PM

Learner' driving permits are still issued to 14 year olds in Alberta. I had one at that age and my daughters did. We are all city kids. On the farm they drive without a license. The only limitation while on the farm is legs long enough to reach the pedals. If you ended up driving to the elevator there'd not likely be anyone stop you.

I think that P&H yellow elevator shows a discharge pipe from the elevator to a small building that looks converted to a grain bin: doors and windows boarded up and feed pipe into the roof area somewhere (probably the opposite wall, assuming that's what the pipe is. 

As for the size of an ancillary building providing freight and distribution that would  depend on the draw area for the elevator which would create the demand. 

Alyth Yard

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Thursday, April 29, 2021 2:15 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
Doughless
In Southern GA, they have peanut farms and peanut processing facilities.  They have a grain operation look to them but some of the buildings have unique shapes.

 

I took this picture near Ashburn, Georgia in 2016. The sign had the name of a peanut company, but I have no idea what this building actually is used for.

-Kevin

 

Well, that's a very small feed mill attached. The different ingredients come from the different bins then go up the tower and down the feed pipe into the building. Feeding what is a question but maybe it's a bagging and distribution facility. 

Alyth Yard

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:07 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
Doughless
In Southern GA, they have peanut farms and peanut processing facilities.  They have a grain operation look to them but some of the buildings have unique shapes.

 

I took this picture near Ashburn, Georgia in 2016. The sign had the name of a peanut company, but I have no idea what this building actually is used for.

-Kevin

 

I don't know enough about Peanut Farming to say.  (BTW, Jimmy Carter still lives in Plains Ga and use to give Sunday sermon's at his local church at 90 something years old.  He may have stopped by now).

Mike might be right.  But if its on a peanut farm, it might be where farmers deliver their trucks of peanuts and then they are stored.

Golden Peanut Company has a plant in Ashburn.  Bagging peanuts, shelling peanuts, and making peanut oil are all part of the process.  

Hoppers for crushed shells (industrial uses).  Tank cars for peanut oil.  One of those industries that could generate different kinds of car traffic.

Atlas paints a 25,500 gal tank car for GPC, which is what got me interested.

Atlas Master N 50004370 Trinity 25,500 Gallon Tank Car Golden Peanut Company  NATX #251282

Anyway, not trying to hijack the thread.

- Douglas

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:25 PM

Deleted

York1 John       

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Posted by ModelTrain on Thursday, April 29, 2021 7:42 PM

Doughless

Since OP mentioned grain elevator kit, I believe it is the Valley Growers Association Elevator.

Walthers - Valley Growers Association - Kit - 933-3251

Walthers - Valley Growers Association Steel Grain Elevator - Kit - 933-3096

 

You are spot on. This is the kit I have.

Here are a few pictures of tonight's progress. I found out that if I put my storage bin on the side of my grain elevator, it goes flush and will be accessible to trains. The thing is that to do this, I have to remove a door from the truck entrance.

Should I remove one door?

What do you think of the office on the next picture?

What color should the storage bin be painted? I was thinking of using the same reddish colour but I am not sure.

Too

1

Stef

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 29, 2021 9:26 PM

ModelTrain
Here are a few pictures of tonight's progress. I found out that if I put my storage bin on the side of my grain elevator, it goes flush and will be accessible to trains. The thing is that to do this, I have to remove a door from the truck entrance. Should I remove one door? What do you think of the office on the next picture? What color should the storage bin be painted? I was thinking of using the same reddish colour but I am not sure.

The kit looks very nice.

What you SHOULD do is do want you want.

I'm no expert on this stuff.  You need to go with what you like.

A few thoughts:

You could cut out the litte ribs on the bin so the door would look like it tracked in between the bin and the elevator.  But that would ruin the building for an alternative placement later.

I'm not sure why the doors would ever be closed.  Too dusty to close them during bad weather I'd think.  Maybe lock up the place to deter theft.  I might just leave all of the doors off.

Color is personal choice.  Once painted, you could always repaint it to something else.  The complex would look larger if its all one color.  But you might want it to look like that piecemeal added to look.

- Douglas

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 29, 2021 9:34 PM

ModelTrain
Should I remove one door? What do you think of the office on the next picture? What color should the storage bin be painted?

You should do whatever you need to do to make the building fit in on your layout and look right to YOUR eye.

Doughless
Golden Peanut Company has a plant in Ashburn.  Bagging peanuts, shelling peanuts, and making peanut oil are all part of the process.

Like I said, I have no idea, but I love the picture I took and thought it was worth sharing.

When I saw the sky that day, I drove around for about an hour taking pictures with the beautiful backdrop God provided for a while. That building could have been a bit outside of Ashburn.

Ashburn, Georgia is a nifty city.

This was me in Ashburn on a less photo-friendly day.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by NHTX on Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:24 PM

     I'm not knowledgable of grain elevators or the kits to build them but, I want to offer this.  In the days when grain was shipped in forty foot boxcars with six foot wide doorways, wooden grain "doors" were coopered to fill the doorways.  These grain doors were re-used each shipping season and, when not in use, they had to be stored at the elevators, somewhere secure, hence the outside hung, sliding door on the shed?

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Posted by ModelTrain on Friday, April 30, 2021 5:08 AM

Thanks guys. I think I will use the storage bin somewhere else on my layout even if it doesn't have a door.

Thanks for your help!

Stef

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Friday, April 30, 2021 8:02 AM

That's the galvanized steel elevator model. Once galvanized steel got cheap enough it was used to clad wooden elevators (according to a Walthers notes anyway).

The steel was usually left unpainted (which is probably why Walthers moulded it in silver grey).

So that building is probably a grain storage "bin". Walthers says the storage building is wooden which explains the exterior reinforcing bands. Those bands indicate the structure was filled with grain.

You've painted the steel elevator with the common red colour so painting the wooden storage  the same colour would be appropriate. 

Grain would have to be augured into and out of this bin. Since it was probably out of and back into the elevator and utilized for excess capacity the necessary connections may not have been visible most of the time. 

The Walthers box pictures show this building across the siding from the elevator. Normally you'd expect a hatch suitable for the elevator loading spout to attach to, as it would be used to fill the covered hoppers used on later years or the boxcars in earlier times. Boxcars were filled through the doorways whereas hoppers were filled through circular top hatches or, later, long lengthwise openings in the top of the cars covered by long hatches. The same spout would be used to fill that building so placing it across the siding track would be logical.

In Western Canada cardboard panels attached by pressed sheet steel strapping would be used to cover the box car door opening from the inside leaving a gap near the top for the loading spout. Once filled the steel door would be closed over the cardboard. Later, before covered hoppers, some boxcars were modified by having grain loading hatches cut into the doors, often painted a contrasting colour. Models of these have been available. They are modern boxcars without roof walks (Although it seems many retained their  roofwalks) 

Heres an old link to the wood or cardboard grain door boxcars:

https://www.walthers.com/amfile/file/download/file/xWTOP3nZzAK9RbRK4lor92B4hS2Pw3CU/product/421782/

 And here's a prototype photo of the grain hatch door version used in the 70's:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cp143117&o=cprail

Were it my layout I would not "attach" this shed to the elevator. Prototype would have been built at a separate time from the elevator, probably much earlier or it too would have been steel clad. 

Alyth Yard

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, April 30, 2021 8:07 AM

SeeYou190

This was me in Ashburn on a less photo-friendly day.

Kevin, which one is you? The guy standing on the steps or the guy inside The Fire Ant Express logo?  Wink Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 30, 2021 8:54 AM

Anyone here know what a facility for roasting and salting peanuts looks like?

I remember as a child wondering how they got the salt into the peanuts and pistachios without breaking the shells.  One of those questions like how they got the blue stripes on the toothpaste coming out of the tube.  What my daughter calls first-world questions. Laugh

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, April 30, 2021 9:20 AM

Overmod

Anyone here know what a facility for roasting and salting peanuts looks like?

I remember as a child wondering how they got the salt into the peanuts and pistachios without breaking the shells.  One of those questions like how they got the blue stripes on the toothpaste coming out of the tube.  What my daughter calls first-world questions. Laugh

 

LOL. 

Lets speculate about possibly saturating them with salt water, then drying out the moisture with the roasting process. 

IOW, can't have the salted without the roasted.

Ever have boiled peanuts?  One of those local gas station/roadside treats here in GA.

- Douglas

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, April 30, 2021 10:32 AM

BATMAN

There was often a freight shed on the elevator siding usually owned by the Co-op that ran the elevator. Supplies, bags of specialized feed supplements as an example would be dropped off.

Here are some of my pics including my trip to Vulcan.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't forget to use "dated" track on your elevator siding.Laugh

 

 

 

And if you want to add some details that can be seen through the open door.

 

 

 

Some of the elevators had the winch and cables in place that were used to pull the rail cars along and at one there was a pile of 64 old switch stands off in the grass.

Visiting these old elevators is like being on the "Life After People" TV show. The elevators are open and accessible without another soul around for miles.

Next time you drive across the Prairies take the back roads, it can be like stepping back in time. Driving a forty-mile stretch of section road I let my 14-year-old daughter drive the truck for a while. Why not all the farm kids were doing it.Laugh

 

Wow, brings back the past. When I was young and on a farm you did not need a licence to drive grain trucks to the grain elivator but without one ypou had to park at the door. 

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