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Huge mistake on my model; help needed

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  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Québec
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Huge mistake on my model; help needed
Posted by ModelTrain on Saturday, April 24, 2021 9:51 AM

Hi everyone!

I made a huge mistake yesterday with a new model I was building, a grain elevator. I glued the grain elevator in the wrong direction. What I mean by that is that the door that is supposed to face the train is now facing the truck entrance.

After a little bit of thinking, I decided that it was impossible to unglue the elevator from its base. So I decided to cut the truck entrance part from the elevator. I will have a lot of sanding to do so the truck entrance can fit properly onto the elevator.

I was also thinking about using the smallest white part on the picture and glue it on the base of the elevator. I think I will have to use some putty and sanding to make this little part fit.

What are your thoughts about this? Do you agree with I want to do? Do you have other suggestions?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Grain

Stef

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:09 AM

Well and haven't we all done something similar...

I think kit bashing originated with mistakes like this. 

As you've discovered, kit bashing isn't that hard to do.

Correcting these kinds of mistakes is actually real model making. Assembling a kit "correctly" is just that, assembly. 

Specfics of your proposed repair are hard to assess without actually being there.

Two " rules" I learned building hundreds of models, plastic and wood, some from scratch including design, are at scale sizes if it looks right it is right almost by definition. Accuracy is nowhere near as important as impression. The whole modelmaking  environment involves our very human sense of drama and imagination. We look at miniature worlds and we want to believe in them so we do.

The other "rule" is related: make it look right, who cares how you got there. The "back side" or the inside can look awful, it's the outside presentation aspect that you want to look right. A little sanding, a little filler a little paint or a lot of paint and you'll get there.

Maybe read all the instructions next time....I never do but I like to skim the whole build procedure and look at all the bits before I start cutting stuff off sprues. Ironically, my worst mistakes come from reading ahead in the instructions and then misremembering the order the steps need to be performed in. 

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by BATMAN on Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:32 AM

Take a deep breath and be happy you will have something a little different on the layout. I love grain elevators and have visited quite a few as I have journeyed around the prairies and they are bashed and crashed and no two look the same or are in pristine condition.

Is your elevator wood or plastic and what kind of glue did you use?

I made a similar mistake when I was distracted by my little children (at the time) coming into the room after I applied the glue but before I put the pieces together. So far I seem to be the only one that knows.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 11:00 AM

I see your kinda new here Stef. Welcome to the forum!

 

That dyslexia stuff attacks me when I least expect it and happens all too frequently.  So don't feel bad.

Your plan to correct the situation sounds good to me.  At least after you fix your mistake you have a place to put your new model on the layout.  And it's looking really good I may add!

I built a prairie grain elevator from scratch because I always wanted to build one.  I found out after approximately 80 hours of patience, I had no room to put it on the layout.

Something had to go.  The model will just be a showpiece on the shelf now.  Maybe I'll build a diorama for it someday.

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Saturday, April 24, 2021 2:45 PM

Even quite small local elevators in period, say pre 1940's are HUGE structures even in 1/87 size. Fortunately, they are tall rather than big footprint. 

Even bigger is the track work and roads (usually gravel at the time) to realistically portray the prototype in working order. 

The transition period between horse and wagon and truck delivery of grain is the period of smallest elevators.  Later eras can  benefit from a feed mill or seed cleaning type elevator facility to keep the footprint manageable.

Even in N scale a modern concrete and a steel elevator complex isn't going to fit. 

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by ModelTrain on Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:36 PM

Thanks guys.

To answer some of your questions:

- The model I have is a plastic Walthers model (Valley Growers Association).

- I have used Testors liquid cement for plastic models.

To repair my mistake, I did what I said I would do on my last post. I sanded the smaller red part (truck entrance) and now it fits perfectly on the elevator.

I also glued the smaller white part on the bottom of my elevator, added Testors Contour Putty, let it dried and finally sand the bottom of the elevator. Everything fits perfectly now.

Next part is to glue the truck entrance on the grain elevator, like it was before, and continue to assemble all the remaining parts.

Question: I was thinking of maybe adding a light, in a few months, in the upper part of the elevator but I don't know if normally we can see lights inside a real elevator like this. What do you think?

Here is the photo of the corrections I have made on my kit. You can zoom in to see the details.

Grain2

Stef

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Posted by Pruitt on Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:45 PM

Here's a helpful hint - nobody but you will ever notice even if you leave the mistake unchanged.

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Posted by selector on Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:52 PM

Cut a new door, and maybe a 'nuther window while you're feeling brave? Smile

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Saturday, April 24, 2021 4:07 PM

Here in South Dakota, there are grain elevators all over the place.  Sometimes multiple elevators in towns of 300 or 400 people.

No two are alike.

Finish the model in a way that looks good to you, and pretend you intended it all along.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by BATMAN on Saturday, April 24, 2021 4:19 PM

Hands up all you MRRs that messed up in the construction of a model.

Look at that sea of arms.Laugh

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 4:49 PM

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Saturday, April 24, 2021 5:23 PM

see below!

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Posted by BATMAN on Saturday, April 24, 2021 5:28 PM

Track fiddler

 

After all this time you still have your fingers glued together.Laugh

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 5:33 PM

LaughLaugh

Me lucky dog!

Da glue least of da problem. Dem truck tools,  My what Big Teeth dey haveIndifferent

 

P.S.  Actually I was trying to do the Spock thing but couldn't quite get it.

Live long and prosper

 

 

 

LaughTF

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Saturday, April 24, 2021 5:45 PM

Track Fiddler your scratch built prairie grain elevator is an outstanding work of art.  Just wow.

Why don't you mount a small extension shelf off the layout to hold this beautiful beast?     Shame she won't ever see trains rolling past her.

Anyway this is why I use Elmer's school glue exclusively on all my model kits and train parts.  If I screw up I just pop the part off and re-do.  School glue is tacky like Alene's, dries clear and strong, and you can adjust the part's position if need be  for an hour or so after applying.  Sure you gotta handle things with care but the benefits outweigh this, I truly believe.  -Rob

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 5:58 PM

I was so busy screwing around I didn't notice your post right away.

Thanks Rob I appreciate that.

I've been considering giving the model to my younger brother.  His layout is so big it'll probably take him almost 10 years to acquire or build all the buildings he needs.

The only reason I haven't decided yet is I know my grip will be delayed when I hand it to him because of all the hours I have into the thing.

Here's a closer view of the Interior I forgot to do when I was building it so it was an afterthought.

I couldn't recess the grain grate, which is a piece of paper from the Walthers catalog under really thin styrene strips.  So I just had to slip it in there and glue it on top of the slabWhistling

 

Thanks for the compliment Rob

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by ModelTrain on Saturday, April 24, 2021 7:15 PM

Everything is going fine right now with this model. I am building and painting at the same time.

I need to know if the upper part of the grain elevator can be illuminated during the night or if it doesn't happen? I need to know because I will be closing the roof on the top of the building if there is never any lights during the night on this type of building.

I am waiting for your answers!

Stef

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 7:50 PM

You know Stef, I don't know the answer to that one.  I know Ed posted a video once, "The Beacon" I think it's just called Grain Elevator and he usually posts it once a year.

The guy that ran the grain elevator (Jonn) after his father did went up there because the different shoots when changing the grain shaft to a different bin would stick and I'm sure the windows up there helped during the day to see.  

I would imagine there would be a light up there if someone was working late.  It certainly won't hurt to put one in and then you have that option better then if you don'tSmile

 

Just remember the most important rule to having fun.  It's your layout and you make the rules.  There ain't nothing wrong with light.

 

 

 

TF

 

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Saturday, April 24, 2021 9:36 PM

There would be no lighting inside a grain elevator (I mean up in the elevated part which is the grain bins where the grain is elevated to). Fire risk was the most significant risk. Grain dust forms an explosive atmosphere very easily. Explosions and fire destroyed many an elevator. Nobody went up in the elevator except to repair it. Down low where the scales are and the "office" you could put lighting. Bear in mind the elevator operated during daylight hours.

 

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 24, 2021 9:39 PM

ModelTrain
I need to know if the upper part of the grain elevator can be illuminated during the night or if it doesn't happen?

Hi Stef,

It makes sense that there would be at least minimal lighting inside the elevator. When the harvest is happening the farmers often work late into the night so it stands to reason that the elevator would be working too.

Don't forget to add exterior lighting as well. There would be lights over the truck doors and any man doors, and probably some yard lighting too.

By the way, you did a fine job of correcting your mistake. Only you will ever know. The rest of us promise to be silent!Zip it!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:11 PM

Double post error

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:24 PM

I don't think you'll mind if I post your video Ed.

Stef, I seen John even had a light on up there during the day right in front of the stairs

I always liked this video

 

 

 

TF

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:32 PM

BATMAN
Hands up all you MRRs that messed up in the construction of a model.

Me Me Me!

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by ModelTrain on Sunday, April 25, 2021 8:27 AM

Track fiddler

I don't think you'll mind if I post your video Ed.

Stef, I seen John even had a light on up there during the day right in front of the stairs

I always liked this video

Wow, thanks for this cool video. I am not just modelling but also learning about history, buildings ... Now I understand how an elevator grain works.

Question: Are those kinds of elevators still in use today? I live in Québec, Canada and I don't remember seeing one like those here. From what I have seen and the little I know is that here our grain elevators seems to be more circular and metallic in shape.

Stef

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Sunday, April 25, 2021 9:47 AM

That's the classic small local elevator. There are still hundreds of these dotted all over the prairies and anywhere else out West where grain was grown.  They are no longer used as far as I know. Since heavy trucks are able to haul large volumes of grain long distances driven by just one person these elevators have fallen into disuse. Custom feedmills or local seed cleaning perhaps.  There's a working replica at our Heritage Park which is interesting to see. Grain is grown on the tiny farm which forms part of the mostly outdoor exhibit. There's a full sized railroad loop, Wye and turntable. 

Elevators like this were built every 7-10 miles apart with spurs to serve them. That was the maximum feasible distance a wagonload of grain could be hauled, emptied and returned to the farm in daylight. Even when grain was trucked initially the trucks were of the small variety pictured in the National Film Board short.

If you have room and inclination one of these belongs on any layout placed in grain country. You really date your model if you show it in use. Anything pre 1940 presents no obstacle. But by the late 70's to maybe the late 80's you would not see a boxcar or hopper spotted on those elevator sidings. Slightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo  above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling...

Note the elevator siding was graded very gently. This permitted one man to roll and spot the empty box car and also move the loaded one on down the siding. The process is one way all the way. Except for the elevation procedure.

Note the "modern" boxcar juxtaposed beside the very old elevator. Note the high tech cardboard panel "reinforced" with sheet metal strapping the elevator guy nails to the inside doorframe. This would be in the 70's still. There are models of later boxcars with grain doors let into tops of the steel doors which duplicate these cardboard shields. Then, all of a sudden we get covered hoppers. 150 box cars per year become, what, 50-70 huge covered hoppers, top loaded. Pretty quickly the round hatch hoppers got replaced with trough filled hoppers, for speed. Then the heavy trucking of grain to huge unit train elevator complexes basically happened "overnight". 

Trucks go in and the loaded and tare weights taken in just one step. Boxcar strings are spotted "uphill" from the elevator spout and removed from the downhill side. The slope of the grade is imperceptible by casual look which is why the casual observer is impressed by the strength of the elevator man. He got all the City girls....

Note the danger sign shown in the video (it's actually a movie, remember those?) and the almost complete absence of metal anywhere in the elevator building. Certainly no  metal to metal contacts were permitted in normal operation.  The engine house is completely separate and the drive belts go under that wooden decking between the buildings. Note the use of a grounded trouble light when descending into the elevator pit to grease the machinery. Note also the heavy fall of grain dust (think very robust whole wheat flour, then think of those flour bombs from your childhood chemistry book) as the elevator man descends.

Note all the dust everywhere, that's pure grain dust and highly explosive. 

Note the windows really high up. Those are for light, no electric lights up there. 

Somewhat ironically, the main man made danger was static electricity generated by the various belt drives.....kaboom for no apparent reason. 

I'm pretty sure no local elevator ever operated after dark. Dawn, sure but never after sundown. 

 

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, April 25, 2021 10:29 AM

Lastspikemike
Slightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo  above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling...

How's this, better?Smile, Wink & GrinLaugh

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by ModelTrain on Sunday, April 25, 2021 11:10 AM

Lastspikemike

That's the classic small local elevator. There are still hundreds of these dotted all over the prairies and anywhere else out West where grain was grown.  They are no longer used as far as I know. Since heavy trucks are able to haul large volumes of grain long distances driven by just one person these elevators have fallen into disuse. Custom feedmills or local seed cleaning perhaps.  There's a working replica at our Heritage Park which is interesting to see. Grain is grown on the tiny farm which forms part of the mostly outdoor exhibit. There's a full sized railroad loop, Wye and turntable. 

Elevators like this were built every 7-10 miles apart with spurs to serve them. That was the maximum feasible distance a wagonload of grain could be hauled, emptied and returned to the farm in daylight. Even when grain was trucked initially the trucks were of the small variety pictured in the National Film Board short.

If you have room and inclination one of these belongs on any layout placed in grain country. You really date your model if you show it in use. Anything pre 1940 presents no obstacle. But by the late 70's to maybe the late 80's you would not see a boxcar or hopper spotted on those elevator sidings. Slightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo  above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling...

Note the elevator siding was graded very gently. This permitted one man to roll and spot the empty box car and also move the loaded one on down the siding. The process is one way all the way. Except for the elevation procedure.

Note the "modern" boxcar juxtaposed beside the very old elevator. Note the high tech cardboard panel "reinforced" with sheet metal strapping the elevator guy nails to the inside doorframe. This would be in the 70's still. There are models of later boxcars with grain doors let into tops of the steel doors which duplicate these cardboard shields. Then, all of a sudden we get covered hoppers. 150 box cars per year become, what, 50-70 huge covered hoppers, top loaded. Pretty quickly the round hatch hoppers got replaced with trough filled hoppers, for speed. Then the heavy trucking of grain to huge unit train elevator complexes basically happened "overnight". 

Trucks go in and the loaded and tare weights taken in just one step. Boxcar strings are spotted "uphill" from the elevator spout and removed from the downhill side. The slope of the grade is imperceptible by casual look which is why the casual observer is impressed by the strength of the elevator man. He got all the City girls....

Note the danger sign shown in the video (it's actually a movie, remember those?) and the almost complete absence of metal anywhere in the elevator building. Certainly no  metal to metal contacts were permitted in normal operation.  The engine house is completely separate and the drive belts go under that wooden decking between the buildings. Note the use of a grounded trouble light when descending into the elevator pit to grease the machinery. Note also the heavy fall of grain dust (think very robust whole wheat flour, then think of those flour bombs from your childhood chemistry book) as the elevator man descends.

Note all the dust everywhere, that's pure grain dust and highly explosive. 

Note the windows really high up. Those are for light, no electric lights up there. 

Somewhat ironically, the main man made danger was static electricity generated by the various belt drives.....kaboom for no apparent reason. 

I'm pretty sure no local elevator ever operated after dark. Dawn, sure but never after sundown.

Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation. I will not put any light inside this elevator.

Here is a photo of my progress right now. The elevator is almost completed. I only need to add the ladder and the spout. But the weathering has not began yet.

I also need to build the two other buildings in this kit: the storage bin and the office.

Question: What is the use of the storage bin? I thought all the grains were stored in the elevator. I am probably missing something.

Grain

Stef

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Posted by Track fiddler on Sunday, April 25, 2021 12:27 PM

ModelTrain
Track fiddler

Question: Are those kinds of elevators still in use today? I live in Québec, Canada and I don't remember seeing one like those here. From what I have seen and the little I know is that here our grain elevators seems to be more circular and metallic in shape.

 
Hi Stef
 
It looks like I overlooked your post and question this morning. 
 
It seems I may have a newly acquired personal assistant answering my questions for me that were directed to me now, ...How convenientLaugh
 
I'm glad you liked the grain elevator video.  Ed posted that on one of my threads and I really like that one too.
 
As far as the old Prairie grain elevators still around, unfortunately they had become a dying breed quite some time ago.  I've heard there is only a scarce few that are quite a long distance from the new modern grain elevators that still operate.  Whether that's true or where they are I have no idea.
 
Here you go
 
 
 
As far as lights go in the old prairie grain elevators and the new modern ones, they both have always had them and always will. 
 
Yes it's true that grain elevators have extreme risk of rapid flash combustion in the air but people still need to see.  The lights that were used and still used to this day have a gasket seal around the end of the socket overlapping the bulb, over that an external housing.
 
That way if human error occurs and someone changes a bulb while the light switch is still on, the spark is contained inside the socket while the new bulb is screwed in.  New modern faculties have sensors that shut off the power to each direct line when a bulb goes out.  The bulbs that were used are a low heat such as a mercury bulb or something like that.  Modern-day faculties have even more scientific bulbs in use these days
 
So feel free to put lights in your grain elevator if you want them as I think it will look coolSmile
 
 
 
Thanks Stef
 
 
 
 
 
 
TF
 
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Posted by Track fiddler on Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:04 PM

Besides the seal housings and special bulbs for lighting related to the old prairie grain elevators, new modern day precautions are much further advanced.

http://www.kcsupply.com/compliant-lighting-grain-handling-facility/

 

 

 

TF

 

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Posted by Track fiddler on Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:29 PM

BATMAN

 

 
Lastspikemike
Slightly amusingly, I note a stock car spotted near the elevator in the photo  above. That's the one type of box car never used for grain hauling...

 

How's this, better?Smile, Wink & GrinLaugh

 

LaughLaughLaughLaugh

Perfect!  Actually I don't think you're too far off Brent.  Makes perfect sense to me.

ETHANOL!!!

Apparently your grain elevator is stocked with cornWhistlingLaugh

 

 

 

Stick out tongueTF

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