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Please Help — An unthinkably large Ho Scale system.

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, May 2, 2021 6:06 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway
Roy spent several months negotiating with the major networks, CBS and NBC, but neither would commit to the theme park plan. Finally, Roy turned to the up-and-coming third network, ABC, who expressed immediate interest. Realizing what the Disney name could do for their network, ABC spent several weeks working out an agreement. Under the terms, ABC would become 35 percent owners of the park, in exchange for a weekly one hour television show and live coverage of the opening day.

So Disney used a lot of his personal assets to get the ball rolling, then a new media company that wanted to make a splash, strategically linked his already established  "brand" name to their new network.

Pretty unique set of circumstances.

Neither the other networks or any of the money people really cared for the idea.

Interesting.  Thanks for the history.

- Douglas

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Posted by The Milwaukee Road Warrior on Sunday, May 2, 2021 6:03 PM

schief
..then it turned into pages of putting him down.

That was *after* some of us noticed that the goalposts seem to be moved every time a pointed question was asked - a question that, more often than not, was aimed at helping the OP think critically about issues that he may not have thought about previously.  

When the answers to such questions were either a) not answers at all, but deflections to some other aspect of the plan or, b) merely an opportunity for him to wax on again at length with very little detail, many of us became weary.

The idea of titling the thread the way he did and carrying on about how this would dwarf everything else ever made - while stubbornly refusing to address the very real concerns raised by members - seems a bit like bomb-throwing to me.  

You don't title a thread as Jared did, and make the kind of statements he did in a model railroad forum without expecting a LOT of attention and questions in return!  As someone noted earlier, if you have a question about stitching together and printing an absurd number of drawings in some sort of digital CAD-like program, you go to a tech-related forum and talk about technology.  

Attempts to inject even a minimal amount of pragmatism and business sense into this venture appear to have fallen on deaf ears.

 

Andy

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Sunday, May 2, 2021 6:01 PM

Speaking of Disneyland.  Also, please note that Disney had already won 19 Oscars by this point, so it's NOT like he was unknown.

 


Gathering the Financing
In 1952, Roy Disney allowed a budget of US$10,000 to develop Disneyland. Walt realized that this would not be enough and borrowed against his life insurance to set up WED Enterprises, an acronym for his initials Walter Elias Disney. He would also sell his vacation home in Palm Springs in order to finance his dream. He sought out friends to invest in the venture, and they reaffirmed that his project was a good idea. By 1953, Roy Disney consented to involve Walt Disney Productions in the theme park project. With many banks unwilling to lend more money to the Disney company, Walt turned to television. The idea had come to him on a sleepless night. After Walt convinced the board of directors of his plan, they decided that Roy would head east to talk to the networks.

But there was still no master drawing of the proposed site, and Walt knew that this would be critical in convincing the networks. He called illustrator Herb Ryman one morning and told him of his amusement park plan. Roy was due in New York on Monday and so a drawing had to be produced immediately. Walt and Herb spent the entire weekend working on the drawing with Ryman translating Walt's words into images. The sketch was hastily copied and sent to New York with Roy.

Roy spent several months negotiating with the major networks, CBS and NBC, but neither would commit to the theme park plan. Finally, Roy turned to the up-and-coming third network, ABC, who expressed immediate interest. Realizing what the Disney name could do for their network, ABC spent several weeks working out an agreement. Under the terms, ABC would become 35 percent owners of the park, in exchange for a weekly one hour television show and live coverage of the opening day.

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Sunday, May 2, 2021 4:03 PM

And no answers to any of the questions people have about the practical aspects of the project, which leads one to strongly suspect it's all oral flatulence.

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, May 2, 2021 12:33 PM

I don't think anybody has accused The Artist of trying to scam anybody out of money.  He's ask some specific questions, but not to fulfill an art project, but as to begin a proposed business venture.

Art and profit tend to be incongruent.  Art is generally financed by taxpayer dollars who's government officials feel necessary to have culture in the city. 

That's not what The Artist is proposing.

Jared seems to want the forum to provide him with just the information he wants, and nothing else.  No appreciation of any feedback if it is not within the prescribed question, only "yeah I already thought of that" kind of responses.

No give and take.  Only take.  Which invites rude responses.

- Douglas

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, May 2, 2021 11:36 AM

schief
I found the ops idea entertaining and though I don't understand how it all can be pulled off, I enjoyed reading about it.

I have enjoyed the idea also. 

While I don't know how it could be pulled off, and it will need to be down-sized... well... someone made Cape Coral, my city, out of worthless swamp land sold to Northern investors.

Anything can happen in Florida.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by schief on Sunday, May 2, 2021 11:23 AM

I found the ops idea entertaining and though I don't understand how it all can be pulled off, I enjoyed reading about it...then it turned into pages of putting him down.

A guy makes a post asking for advice on a program to combine sketches and it devolves into people acting like he is trying to scam them out of money here.

Wether you think the project is achievable or not is irrelevant.  The rudness of some of the responses here is embarassing.   If you feel this discussion is a waste of time, you can just as easily move on.

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Saturday, May 1, 2021 3:51 PM

Exactly.  Ideas are cheap.  The hard work is in the development.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by Doughless on Saturday, May 1, 2021 2:37 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway

All right, here's some actual professional advice for free.

If you go to a bank for a loan, they will ask you what your collateral is.

If you go to an investor for investment funds, they will ask you how much money you are investing yourself.

 

How will you answer these questions?

 

I really hate to bump this thread, but these car wrecks always make me lurk.

For centuries, people have always wanted to build art projects with other people's money.

And make money off of other people's money. 

 

- Douglas

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:29 PM

All right, here's some actual professional advice for free.

If you go to a bank for a loan, they will ask you what your collateral is.

If you go to an investor for investment funds, they will ask you how much money you are investing yourself.

 

How will you answer these questions?

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by Outsailing86 on Saturday, May 1, 2021 12:22 AM

I think we were all supposed to mail him any extra project material . Like those two spare pieces of flex track you've got. 
he's sending his HO scale RC cargo plane to pick it up.

troll on =-D

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Posted by The Milwaukee Road Warrior on Friday, April 30, 2021 11:00 PM

Jared the Artist
I got all the answers I needed days ago.

Send pictures when you get it built.

Andy

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, April 30, 2021 7:08 PM

santafe5000
Buy the AstroDome in Houston and build an enormous HELIX.

Not sure that would work. The Astrodome has compliance issues, and is also a national historic site.

But... GREAT IDEA... So, keeping this in Florida, and with a realistic timeline...

The Tampa Bay Rays are probably leaving Tropicana Stadium in 2027. The city of Saint Petersburg has been looking for a way to repurpose the stadium. It has a giant non-retractable dome and is in good shape.

This could work. Plenty of parking, good Interstate access, Hotels, Restaurants, Night Life, it is all right there.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, April 30, 2021 7:07 PM

I enjoyed watching the Northlandz video.  I have never heard of or seen it before. 

I didn't find that man crazy at all like some of his friends and family did.  Apparently he really liked trains and enjoyed what he was doing for most of his life or he wouldn't have done it.

There's a handful of people that have lived creating a Wonderland throughout most of their life.  My favorite one that I went through was the House on the Rock in Wisconsin.  I don't know where this architect found all the time to build this place, he just kept adding on for his own amusement.  It became a big tourist attraction while it was still being built after the word had spread.

The exhibit is a lot of very large buildings connected together.  It took about three hours to walk through and see everything.  I had never felt amazed, disturbed and fascinated all at the same time before that day.  A lot of it was like being wide awake in some kind of a strange nightmare. There was so much to see I'm sure I missed some things.  Not sure if I would pay to see a mega layout twice or not but I would go back to that place in a minute.

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by santafe5000 on Friday, April 30, 2021 5:52 PM

Buy the AstroDome in Houston and build an enormous HELIX.

James in TexasCowboy

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, April 30, 2021 4:06 PM

I've been to Northlandz, it's different as this sort of stuff goes.

The scenery and model work is neither realistic or toylike, but somewhere in between, it really is art.

How good or bad that art is depends on your taste.

When we were there the place was in some disrepair, maybe 15 years ago? 

It is under new ownership now. I wonder how they are doing?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 30, 2021 3:11 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway
NORTHLANDZ

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Friday, April 30, 2021 1:48 PM

NORTHLANDZ.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by Jared the Artist on Friday, April 30, 2021 1:03 AM

SeeYou190
You cannot just simply tie into Disney.

I didn't want to spend forever writing a novel about the specific plan I had, nor can I assume that any of you cared enough to read it, so saying "simply tie into Disney" was the quickest way to answer that question.  

Problem is if I don't answer the question I'm the ghost with no substance, or if I do answer, I'm the crazy dreamer with apparently no common sense.  Nevertheless, thank you, Kevin for always adding constructive comments into your replies.

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Posted by Jared the Artist on Friday, April 30, 2021 12:56 AM

richhotrain
The OP essentially acknowledges that he lacks the skills, financial resources, and overall knowledge of project management to carry through. So, he is looking for an insane nut case with a passion for trains and a bottomless money pit to finance the whole effort.

There is not one person in the world who has all the qualifications you've just stated to take a theme park idea all the way to grand opening alone.  Not even Elon Musk could do that.  He has a team on every project he works on.  I will too when the time is right.  

And I got all the answers I needed days ago.  This thread continued because people kept asking questions and for the most part I didn't mind answering because I enjoy talking about all the facets of my design.

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Posted by Jared the Artist on Friday, April 30, 2021 12:44 AM

Doughless
What are you talking about?  HO scale ships?  Floating and being controlled in a river that is big enough to hold the amount of water we're talking about?

Exactly.  Surely you've heard of radio controlled airplanes?  H***, Miniatur Wunderland has radio controlled ships as well.  Why would we spend money to model multiple seaports and not fill it with ships that can actually move when the technology is already there...  

Those container ships you see today, Maersk, Evergreen, OOCL, ONE, etc... can be up to 2' wide and 15' long in Ho scale.  So yes, you need a very large body of water for them to operate in.

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:24 PM

I can't decide if I continue watching this thread in the faint hope that the OP will show a slight glimmer of sanity, or if I'm just enjoying the accelerating absurdity.

 

"Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends... "

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 29, 2021 9:05 PM

Jared the Artist
Fortunately, Disney owns the land in mind.  The easiest and most effective way to drive tourists to the park would be to simply tie into Disney.

You cannot just simply tie into Disney.

Do some research into the Reedy Creek Improvement District to see why this would be completely impossible.

There is an abandon WalMart Supercenter, much larger than Miniature World, in Brandon, Florida that Hillborough County is looking to repurpose. It was closed under shady circumstances, and has some sort of special consideration for repurposing. Not too far from Busch Gardens and driveable from Orlando.

There is development opportunity in Orlampa, Florida, and they have been looking for attractions to compliment Fantasy Of Flight and the Aircraft Museum. There is also already a lake.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:56 PM

The reason that this thread is now 10 pages long, more than 8,000 views, and approaching 300 replies, is that it is so bizarre.

True, the topic is about building the world's largest model railroad layout, one that will dwarf Miniatur Wunderland, but the real premise is a rather unsustainable business proposition. The OP essentially acknowledges that he lacks the skills, financial resources, and overall knowledge of project management to carry through. So, he is looking for an insane nut case with a passion for trains and a bottomless money pit to finance the whole effort.

This apparent pipe dream is likely going nowhere, and the fact that the OP persists in writing about it on this forum is absolutely pointless. How in the world can we be of any help or assistance to him? We can't even figure out why our trains won't run, what is wrong with our decoders, and what the inner radius is on a curved turnout. Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

 

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:36 PM

 

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:29 PM

Jared the Artist

 

 
Doughless
The lake would be so large, it could be a recreational facility.  Much better way to economically amortize the cost of water management than underground tanks.

 

This actually bodes well for me.  Like I said earlier, I'll need a massive river system to ferry the radio controlled ships from port to port throughout the theme park, as well as a lake to "anchor" the ships in need of service/repairs.

 

What are you talking about?  HO scale ships?  Floating and being controlled in a river that is big enough to hold the amount of water we're talking about?

Good night Jared.  Good luck.

- Douglas

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Posted by The Milwaukee Road Warrior on Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:00 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway
"simply tie into Disney. "   I am now 100% convinced that this person has no idea what they are talking about.

Exactly my thoughts upon reading the reply, lol.  There is no such thing as just 'tying into Disney', that multi-billion dollar enterprise that protects its intellectual property with fierce determination.  Good grief.

Secondly, I'm guessing no matter where this thing would be built, numerous zoning code variations would be required...

Thirdly, I used to work in a northern Chicago suburb that required residents to build their own detention basins on their own property if the amount of impervious surface area exceeded some stated percentage of the lot area.  People were furious and let me tell you: it was NOT cheap to build detention for even a 1/2 to 1 acre lot..

Finally, the costs of electricity and heating and cooling alone will be incalculable.

This is wine-fueled delusion.

Maybe we should all agree to let this "thread" die, and get back to more reality-based endeavors. 

Andy

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Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.

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Posted by johnbalich on Thursday, April 29, 2021 7:18 PM

"Not all things that count can be counted. Not all that things that can be counted, count." Einstein

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Posted by johnbalich on Thursday, April 29, 2021 7:16 PM

BATMAN

Delusions are fixed and false personal beliefs that are resistant to change in the light of conflicting evidence. Delusions are the extreme case of irrational beliefs. These beliefs are obsessive and cause emotional distress. ... Even some otherwise rational people appear to believe bizarre things that are not true.

C'mon Dawg let us grumpy old men bring our ability for critical thinking to the fore one more time. History is replete with beliefs that just don't hold water, this one we are allowed to discuss.Big Smile

Pass the popcorn.Laugh

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