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Please Help — An unthinkably large Ho Scale system.

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, April 23, 2021 7:29 AM

Well, this was the key sentence for me in his original post.

entire system, cities, railyards, bridges, industries, scenic points, etc. will be replicated and built to scale — hence why the design will be so large.

The common sense aspect of how to build this caught my eye.

If the entire project is simply a design question....how would I design something like this to view it digitally....I suppose one would have to tell themself that the goal was to build it in order to make the entire project something more than just a daydream.

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Posted by Deane Johnson on Friday, April 23, 2021 7:34 AM

Douglas, I suspect the last sentence in the last paragraph of what you quoted might be a not so well hidden clue from the OP.

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Posted by Mark B on Friday, April 23, 2021 8:16 AM

Assuming the USA is about 2500 miles wide and HO is 1:87 scale that would make the building about 28 full size miles long and about 15 miles wide.

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Friday, April 23, 2021 6:22 PM

How will this be funded?  Until you answer that question, you're just tooting smoke.  Yes, Walt Disney built Disneyland.  But he spent years making animated cartoons first, starting with shorts, for which there was already a market.

You need a good solid presentation to get funding, yes.  But why would anybody invest in this?

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

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Posted by Deane Johnson on Friday, April 23, 2021 6:58 PM

This will never be funded.  There is no way for such a venture to show a good possibility of producing a return on investment.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, April 23, 2021 7:07 PM

Deane Johnson

This will never be funded.  There is no way for such a venture to show a good possibility of producing a return on investment.

 

Well, you may be right, it may not get funded in the conventional ways. 

And the OP may be "dreaming", but lots of people with money have done lots of things that made no investment or economic sense. And some of them did pretty good.....

Lots of successful businesses of the past worked on economic models that make an MBA shutter today. 

I'm still waiting for the Email address to send my resume as project director.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, April 23, 2021 8:45 PM

I found this thread rather hilarious from the start.  Besides funding to build a model railroad of the whole prototypical railroad system in the continental United States,  To do it in 1/87th scale you would need a building the size of Rhode Island or Connecticut.

And I have enough of a problem getting a 32 square foot layout far enough along in a timely mannerWhistling  

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by The Milwaukee Road Warrior on Friday, April 23, 2021 9:38 PM

I'm a man divided on this: earlier in this thread I was trying to keep my mind open.  One half of me says "Go for it!  Dream big."

But then the pragmatic half says it will be hard to even break even on such a venture.  How much track, wire, wood, boosters, throttles, computers, lights, cork, buildings, bridges, signals, crossings, turnouts, bumpers, assorted knobs/switches, foam, hydrocal, plaster of paris, paint, masonite, ballast, turnout throws, signal bridges, solder etc will be needed??  The cost of materials would be astronomical.  

Then the OP mentioned needing approximately 5 square miles of space.

5 square miles?!?

I'm sorry, but I had to bail at that point.  Facebook is sinking billions into a large data storage center near me, and while the buildings are huge, they wouldn't begin to fit this pipe dream.  This strikes me as a losing gamble, even pre-covid.  Post-covid.... well, who wants to go to an amusement park anymore?  I know I don't.

I want to be more encouraging but I just can't based on what I've read so far.

Andy

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Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.

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Posted by tstage on Friday, April 23, 2021 9:41 PM

Jared,

I didn't bother reading your "Wall of Words" so perhaps you already commented on this.  Is this going to be your first-ever layout?

If so, you might want to consider building a module or two as a "proof of concept" first.  You can then press the exponential button on your computer's keyboard once you've ironed out all your intial (& potential) problems and discoveries.

Tom

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, April 23, 2021 10:29 PM

I have devised a schedule taking the time frame into account on how much time I've spent on my 4 by 8 layout and how much I have gotten done thus far.

According to my calculations, even with a crew of 5, each working at my speed.  To build a layout only the size of a gymnasium,  I would have to live to be one hundred and eighty to see its completionWhistling

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by Jared the Artist on Friday, April 23, 2021 10:42 PM

I really appreciate all the skepticism and objections.  It helps me straighten out the ideas in my head as it's often hard for me to translate them to words on a post.  

To be clear, this isn't just some dream I thought a short time ago.  I've literally invested over 3000 hours into this from the initial idea to the completed theme park and everything in between — including funding.  

Bayfield Transfer Railway
You need a good solid presentation to get funding, yes.  But why would anybody invest in this?

This will be a multi million dollar operation — you can bet your britches my pitch will be rock solid.  Are you an investor?  If so, let me know and I'll add you to my list. 

And why would anyone invest in this?  Some won't of course but many will for a multitude of reasons all of which will be laid out in my pitch.

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Posted by Jared the Artist on Friday, April 23, 2021 11:14 PM

The Milwaukee Road Warrior
Then the OP mentioned needing approximately 5 square miles of space. 5 square miles?!?

That's the total area needed to fit the entire system yes, but that doesn't mean every square foot will be "modeled".  I doubt even 10% of that space will be modeled.  As I stated in an earlier post much of the system will be these narrow corridors that could be anywhere from 30' to roughly 180' wide and up to 1,200' long between cities.  Maybe 50' wide on average (just a guess as I haven't broken down that part yet) and that will include the area being modeled along with a pathway/s for the spectators to follow along with overs and unders to get across the tracks.  Then larger/wider buildings for major cities.

The "empty" space in between the layout outside will feature a variety of other miniatur trains.  The biggest aspect will be a 1:8 scale train system that will be the main mode of transportation inside the theme park with miniatur train stations spread throughout the park.  So for example if a viewer arrives at San Francisco but is only interested in watching trains run through the mountains, they can hop on a 1:8 scale train at the station and take it to BC to see CP and CN along the Fraser river or CP through the Kicking Horse Pass.  Then take another 1:8 scale train down into Colorado and watch trains run down the Glenwood Canyon and so on.

The dead space in between the layout also will have your restaurants, cafes and other outdoor exhibits.  Just like in Disneyland, you have the major rides like Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain Railroad and then smaller attractions to fill the space between them.  

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Posted by Jared the Artist on Friday, April 23, 2021 11:24 PM

tstage

Jared,

I didn't bother reading your "Wall of Words" so perhaps you already commented on this.  Is this going to be your first-ever layout?

If so, you might want to consider building a module or two as a "proof of concept" first.  You can then press the exponential button on your computer's keyboard once you've ironed out all your intial (& potential) problems and discoveries.

Tom

 

Why on earth would I need to do that?  The Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg has already proven that you can run dozens of trains simultaneously on an incredibly large network of tracks, not to mention the rest of the technology they've developed.  I'm not reinventing the wheel... I'm taking the wheel and breaking it (the idea that model trains are only meant for a 15x30' basement layout) and showing you that the wheel can be as big as your mind allows it to be.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, April 23, 2021 11:41 PM

Track fiddler

I found this thread rather hilarious from the start.  Besides funding to build a model railroad of the whole prototypical railroad system in the continental United States,  To do it in 1/87th scale you would need a building the size of Rhode Island or Connecticut.

And I have enough of a problem getting a 32 square foot layout far enough along in a timely mannerWhistling   

TF 

The Milwaukee Road Warrior

I'm a man divided on this: earlier in this thread I was trying to keep my mind open.  One half of me says "Go for it!  Dream big."

But then the pragmatic half says it will be hard to even break even on such a venture.  How much track, wire, wood, boosters, throttles, computers, lights, cork, buildings, bridges, signals, crossings, turnouts, bumpers, assorted knobs/switches, foam, hydrocal, plaster of paris, paint, masonite, ballast, turnout throws, signal bridges, solder etc will be needed??  The cost of materials would be astronomical.  

Then the OP mentioned needing approximately 5 square miles of space.

5 square miles?!?

I'm sorry, but I had to bail at that point.  Facebook is sinking billions into a large data storage center near me, and while the buildings are huge, they wouldn't begin to fit this pipe dream.  This strikes me as a losing gamble, even pre-covid.  Post-covid.... well, who wants to go to an amusement park anymore?  I know I don't.

I want to be more encouraging but I just can't based on what I've read so far. 

tstage

Jared,

I didn't bother reading your "Wall of Words" so perhaps you already commented on this.  Is this going to be your first-ever layout?

If so, you might want to consider building a module or two as a "proof of concept" first.  You can then press the exponential button on your computer's keyboard once you've ironed out all your intial (& potential) problems and discoveries.

Tom 

Yeah, guys, your instincts are right. This is a bad joke.

If Jared The Artist couldn't fit half of his drawings in a 60' x 95' enclosure, that means that he would require a 90' x 130' space just to fit in the drawings. Convert that into an HO scale layout, for example, and you could be looking at a 7,830' x 11,310' layout. So, in rough terms, a 1 1/2 mile x 2 mile layout. Could it be done? Sure. Will it be done, well, I will leave that up to you.

I might be slightly convinced if his screen name were Jared The Engineer. But, Jared The Artist? I have an appreciation for fine art, but let's be realistic, artists are dreamers, engineers are builders. Even if this guy is sincere, I predict that it will never get done.

Now that he has passed the 5-post moderation test, we are already up to 14 posts. See where this is going? Whistling

Seriously, guys, why would anyone in need of so many resources including design, marketing, engineering, construction, etc. want to spend so much time posting, trying to convince members of a Kalmbach forum of the worthiness and investability in such a mega venture of dubious success?

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, April 24, 2021 7:47 AM

Jared the Artist
 
tstage

Jared,

I didn't bother reading your "Wall of Words" so perhaps you already commented on this.  Is this going to be your first-ever layout?

If so, you might want to consider building a module or two as a "proof of concept" first.   

Why on earth would I need to do that?  The Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg has already proven that you can run dozens of trains simultaneously on an incredibly large network of tracks, not to mention the rest of the technology they've developed.  I'm not reinventing the wheel... I'm taking the wheel and breaking it (the idea that model trains are only meant for a 15x30' basement layout) and showing you that the wheel can be as big as your mind allows it to be.

That's not what "proof of concept" means.

Proof of concept is evidence, typically derived from an experiment or pilot project, which demonstrates that a design concept or business proposal is feasible.

It is an exercise in which work is focused on determining whether an idea can be turned into a reality. It is meant to determine the feasibility of the idea or to verify that the idea will function as envisioned. 

A proof of concept elicits feedback from everyone involved in a project, especially potential investors who need to be convinced that the project will be successful, thereby minimizing investor risk.

Proof of concept is valuable because it tests the viability of a project before work begins on an actual project. In other words, do the concepts and theories have real-world application? 

So, when Tom suggests building a module or two as proof of concept, he is not limiting his remarks to simply building a couple of modules. To provide proof of concept, you would need to build a layout, say 15' x 30', invite the general population to view the layout for a fee, and register their opinions as to whether they would visit a mega-version of this layout and pay an admission fee to do so. Line the walls around that layout space with your drawings to demonstrate the enormity of the actual mega-layout.

You need to prove to investors that if you build it, they will come.

Rich

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, April 24, 2021 9:25 AM

Jared: a few questions...

1) Generally speaking, where are you planning to build this? I would suggest Orlando, Florida simply because there is already so many tourists there, looking for things to do.

2) What is your time frame? How quickly would you want to get phase one open tio the public?

3) Are you planning to buy land and build your own building, or use an existing structure?

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:57 AM

Jared the Artist
tstage

Jared,

I didn't bother reading your "Wall of Words" so perhaps you already commented on this.  Is this going to be your first-ever layout?

If so, you might want to consider building a module or two as a "proof of concept" first.  You can then press the exponential button on your computer's keyboard once you've ironed out all your intial (& potential) problems and discoveries.

Tom

Why on earth would I need to do that?  The Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg has already proven that you can run dozens of trains simultaneously on an incredibly large network of tracks, not to mention the rest of the technology they've developed.  I'm not reinventing the wheel... I'm taking the wheel and breaking it (the idea that model trains are only meant for a 15x30' basement layout) and showing you that the wheel can be as big as your mind allows it to be.

Well, Jared, you never answered my question so I guess I'll ask it another way:

Have YOU, personally, ever built a "working" layout before yourself?

What I do NOT mean by "working" is a circle of track with a transformer and train set doing the roundy-round on a piece of 4 x 8.  What I DO mean by "working" is, have you ever done any of the following:

  • Laid trackwork?
  • Installed a power buss for wiring your track?
  • Soldered or soldered wire to track?
  • Installed and wired a turnout?
  • Built a turnout? - I'm going to guess that some of your turnouts are going to be "non-standard" and not commercially available
  • Wired a layout for lighting/animation?
  • Constructed scenery or structures from kits?
  • Kitbashed or scratch-built scenery or structures? - Again, not everything on your dream layout is going to be commerically available
  • Constructed benchwork for supporting a layout?
  • Routine maintenance on a model locomotive?

If you yourself do not have a concept of what it all takes to construct and successfully wire together even two moderately-sized "working" modules then you are going to be hard-pressed to convince others (aka investors) that it can be done.  Or, will all the above be done by "someone else"?

Sorry, Jared, I remain skeptical until more of the nitty-gritty and the "sinew and neurons" of the supporting details is proven viable.  Otherwise, this dream of yours will never get off the drawing table - literally and figuratively.

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, April 24, 2021 11:37 AM

tstage

Sorry, Jared, I remain skeptical until more of the nitty-gritty and the "sinew and neurons" of the supporting details is proven viable.  Otherwise, this dream of yours will never get off the drawing table - literally and figuratively.

Tom 

Here is why I am skeptical, not so much of Jared or his dream (I will leave it to others to speculate on whether he is a troll or a frat boy gone wild or whomever) but, rather, his methodology.

First, it has now been two weeks since Jared first posted on how to print or display his hundreds of drawings and images. If he is waiting for someone on this forum to answer his question, he will be waiting a long, long time, maybe forever. This is not the place for answers to such a question. He needs to contact professional printers for this purpose.

Second, he mentioned that he has put over 3,000 hours into this project, mainly on research and drawings. That is 1 1/2 years of full time work using the standard 2,000 hours for 50 work weeks times 8 hours per day times 5 day work weeks. Depending upon what he does for a living to consume his time each day, that could work out to 3 years or longer doing research and making drawings. That is a long time to show little progress toward making this dream a reality.

Rich

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 12:11 PM

Very good points Rich!  And others here as well.

Like I said before I thought this thread was a farce from the very start.  But the biggest Point made thus far on this thread that reconfirmed this, was the fact that if a millionaire had enough power to take on a mega project of this magnitude, what would he be doing wasting his time approaching a bunch of talented hobbyists before his venture was in motion?  He would have already researched the venture to see if it was lucrative and had all his ducks in a row before spending 3000 hours on drawings and then approaching hobbyist to see what they think about it.

 

They're actually was this millionaire and I can't remember where it was but it was an extremely elaborate building that he built and did hire talented model railroad hobbyists to work and built this dream layout.  I do believe he was doing it for his own entertainment and did not plan on having tours at the start.  It was kind of like that millionaire that built the House on the Rock in Wisconsin and he just kept going once he started and it took off from there.

After enough of this model railroad was complete, paying spectators started touring while the construction of the layout was still in progress in other parts of the building.  And the guy was adding on to the building.

So this kind of thing has gone on before but those that have done it didn't start going about it like thisSad

That was a long time ago I remember reading about this but I just can't remember all the details.

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, April 24, 2021 12:49 PM

Innumeracy is a crisis in America. Or, in the vernacular: Math, my dude.

5 square miles is 3200 acres (over 139,000,000 sq. ft.)

The original Disneyland in California was 160 acres. It's only 500 acres even now. Legoland in California is 128 acres.

Jared the Artist
I doubt even 10% of that space will be modeled.

OK, for sake of argument, let’s say that even 1% of the 5 square miles is modeled. That’s 1.4 million square feet. 

The 190 square meter (2045 sq. ft.) Bella Italia section of Miniatur Wunderland cost 4 million Euros in 2016 ($4.84 million, or $2,367 per square foot). When you do that multiple for a 1% modeled area of your total, it’s the GDP of a good-sized country. Even if you think you can build for half that rate ... or even a quarter ... it's a ridiculously large amount that would never offer a return on investment.

Jared the Artist
I've literally invested over 3000 hours into this from the initial idea to the completed theme park and everything in between — including funding. 

If this were a serious proposal, the equivalent of 375 8-hour days on this would have by now yielded a general location, detailed financial projection (including when the investors get their money back, along with how much profit over the original investment), and artistic renderings illustrating a few of the scenes and the overall project.

It's not a Google Earth tracing project ... or even a modeling project. It would be a (huge) real-estate development. Unless you are the heretofore unknown child of someone named Buffet or Gates, it seems, well, unlikely.

Cardiff Giant Layouts and other Fairy Tales

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Posted by Track fiddler on Saturday, April 24, 2021 12:59 PM

Good Grief Cuyama is back!

Byron we have missed you!  Where in the heck have you been?  Don't you know people are worried about you when you are away for too long?

Well anyway, it's good to hear from you and I'm glad that you are wellSmile

 

Finally logic and reason has been restored to our forumSmile, Wink & Grin

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, April 24, 2021 2:18 PM

So I've got some funds that are earning me very low interest rates and I'd just as soon invest them into a project with money making potential.  But before I give this project any consideration, I request the OP to provide me (and the Forum) with some of personal background.  Such as:

- Your age, education, work history, other accomplishments

- Your background in building or association with model railroads

- Your background with related fields for a project of this size - such as fund raising, business analysis, commercial real estate, construction, project management, marketing, and my personal favorite, construction accounting.

Only with suitable answers to the above questions will anyone - including me - consider investing in this huge project.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, April 24, 2021 2:42 PM

Thanks, TF ... just a quick drop-in for now. 

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Posted by fisherdm on Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:24 PM

Jared,

To answer your original question, you will need a full CAD software package. In general, this means Autocad. (Not because it is necessarily the best software, but because the user base is huge, and training is available just about anywhere.) The real thing is that you are not going to put all this into one single file. You will need to set up multiple sets of drawings at different scales. The largest scale drawing would show to overall site plan, with basically no detail. The next set of drawings will be at a smaller scale, but still don't show any details. From your description, this level might show the individual buildings with labels as to what city it represents. Eventually you get down to the level of the track plan. But it's not all put together in one place.

To give you an example, I am working on a project which will entail running 4800 feet of cable tray through an existing plant. The overall drawing will show the entire plant, with about 6 rectangles that refer to smaller scale area plans. Below those will be the drawings showing the individual supports. It's all tied together with reference files so that everything matches up. You have to do the same thing, but probably with several additional levels of drawing sets.

There are also some other considerations beyond the modeling that will drive the design. In this much area, vehicle access is needed at every building to bring people and supplies in and out. That includes emergency vehicles (fire, ambulance). The buildings have to designed to meet the building code, which requires that everyone can exit within a certain distance. A gymnasium is a huge space, but the travel distance is straightforward enough. Fill it with a labyrinth of model railroad benchwork, and it becomes an illegal safety hazard for public access.

While I have my personal doubts about the viability of this project, I wish you luck.

Dan Fisher

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, April 24, 2021 5:34 PM

Kinda expanding on Tom's (tstage) and Byron's (cuyama) posts . . .

I seriously doubt that the number and volume of scale trees produced by Woodland Scenics and countless other manufacturers from the beginning of time up until yesterday would be enough to make a noticeable dent in the landscape scenicking required for this project.

There might be enough flex track in existence because, you know, HO. Or Ho.

Robert

PS  Hey Byron. Good to hear from you.

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by Jared the Artist on Sunday, April 25, 2021 12:25 AM

fisherdm
To answer your original question, you will need a full CAD software package. In general, this means Autocad. (Not because it is necessarily the best software, but because the user base is huge, and training is available just about anywhere.) The real thing is that you are not going to put all this into one single file. You will need to set up multiple sets of drawings at different scales. The largest scale drawing would show to overall site plan, with basically no detail. The next set of drawings will be at a smaller scale, but still don't show any details. From your description, this level might show the individual buildings with labels as to what city it represents. Eventually you get down to the level of the track plan. But it's not all put together in one place.

Hey Dan — I really appreciate your comment.  I came to the same conclusion earlier but I'm happy to see someone else saw it that way as well.

As a general response to the rest of the comments...

I'm not wasting my time coming here.  Most of you I assume are talented modelers.  If someone offered to actually pay you to model, something I'm guessing most of you are passionate about, regardless of the size and scope of the job, would you be that quick to say no?

What does my background have to do with it?  Are you telling me Walt Disney knew how to draw up the engineering for the rides at Disneyland?  Or calculate the electrical plan to power everything?

For sake of argument, if everything I've talked about existed today, this massive model train world, would you pay to visit it? Even if it was $50 or even a $100 entrance fee?

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, yet I tried my best to answer as many questions as I could to be friendly, but frankly some of them aren't appropriate to talk about here.  So yes, to all those whos questions I didn't answer, yes I actually do have answers to them — I just don't feel comfortable talking about them here with a group of strangers.  

Well one more I can answer.  Yes, Kevin, Orlando is the destination in mind and for exactly why you stated.

I came here to get answers for a design question (maybe it wasnt the best place to come) and to all of those to replied with a constructive response, again, I say thank you very much.  I'm already moving forward with it.  

However, I do appreciate all of the other opinions I've recieved, regardless if they were positive or negative.  I thought a community like the one here was a place I needed to get to know eventually and that I felt when the time comes to build that I could find a lot of great help here.  And I think I have :)

Hope you're all having a great weekend!

-Jared

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 25, 2021 12:41 AM

Track fiddler
Good Grief Cuyama is back!

Byron,

It is really good to see you back, even if it just for a drop-in. Your absence leaves a void. You cannot be replaced.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 25, 2021 12:54 AM

Jared the Artist
Well one more I can answer.  Yes, Kevin, Orlando is the destination in mind and for exactly why you stated.

Good, Orlando is the right place for it.

The bad news... there was a failed attraction in Orlando called Splendid China. This was a 75 acre theme park that featured 1/10 scale models of famous Chinese landmarks.

The park cost over $100,000,000.00 to build in the early 1990s, and was owned and financed by the government of the People's Republic of China, and still only stayed open 10 years.

Learn everything you can from that failure.

Also, look into what went wrong with Charlemagne's Kingdom in Helen, Georgia. This display went bankrupt and closed about 5 years ago, but I have been told it has reopened.

Seriously, how big is the functioning part of this display going to be? It needs to be in a building, which must be climate controlled, so anything more than a few acres becomes almost impossible.

I know your plans are bigger than that, but the reality of maintaining a commercial building in Florida needs a lot of consideration.

Also, anything larger than a normal sized shopping mall becomes unwalkable for visitors, so there is a limit.

The Orange County Convention Center in Orlando is 7,000,000 square feet, and would cost over $150,000,000.00 to build today.

This picture is the entrance to about 1/5 of the OCCC.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,274 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, April 25, 2021 4:53 AM

Only a fool would invest in someone's idea without knowing something about the "investee".  And the OP has told us nothing about himself (herself?), other than he has this grand idea.

Walt Disney's "not knowing how to construct a ride" is NOT relevant to this discussion.  Mr. Disney had captured the world with his cartoons and movies, had a huge financial following, and had an extremely successful career that was the basis for the Disney parks.

With that, what does the OP have to offer?   

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 21,705 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 25, 2021 6:21 AM

Jared the Artist

I'm not wasting my time coming here.  Most of you I assume are talented modelers.  If someone offered to actually pay you to model, something I'm guessing most of you are passionate about, regardless of the size and scope of the job, would you be that quick to say no?

Of course not, but that is not what you have presented so far. If you are suggesting that someone has offered to actually pay you to model a mega layout, this is the first time that you have mentioned that. So, has someone offered to actually pay you to model a mega layout? If so, how experienced are you? Tell us more. If this same thread were started by someone like Lance Mindheim or Gary Hoover or even our own Byron Henderson, we might adopt a more positive view.

Jared the Artist

What does my background have to do with it?  Are you telling me Walt Disney knew how to draw up the engineering for the rides at Disneyland?  Or calculate the electrical plan to power everything?

Once again, of course not. But, your background does, indeed, have something to do with it. I recall that in one of your replies, you asked if any of us are interested as investors and, if so, to let you know so you can add names to your list. No venture capitalist would hand over money for investment purposes to an entrepreneur without knowing his background, his skill and experience, his financial acumen, his work experience, etc.

Jared the Artist

For sake of argument, if everything I've talked about existed today, this massive model train world, would you pay to visit it? Even if it was $50 or even a $100 entrance fee?

Well, now, that depends. I think that all agree that the concept sounds interesting. But, why not, we are model railroaders. The real question is, would the general public be interested. An admission fee of $50 or $100 is chump change for a vast section of the entertainment hungry public. But, don't forget the associated costs of travel, food and housing, etc.

Jared the Artist

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, yet I tried my best to answer as many questions as I could to be friendly, but frankly some of them aren't appropriate to talk about here.  So yes, to all those whos questions I didn't answer, yes I actually do have answers to them — I just don't feel comfortable talking about them here with a group of strangers.  

Granted, but we have already answered your initial question about the printing process for your drawings. Your posts to date have hinted not only at the enormity of the project but also some detail about the content of the project. So, it seems to me that you are looking for more than just an answer to your initial question. In searching back over all of the replies to your original post, I cannot find a single inappropriate question.

Jared the Artist

However, I do appreciate all of the other opinions I've recieved, regardless if they were positive or negative.  I thought a community like the one here was a place I needed to get to know eventually and that I felt when the time comes to build that I could find a lot of great help here.  And I think I have :)

I challenge your use of the term "negative". Perhaps what you would define as negative is actually constructive criticism, hard love so to speak. As model railroaders, we are naturally skeptical about a lot of things in layout building. When someone comes along with a proposal to dwarf Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg Germany, everyone else is going to sit up and take notice.

Have you ever watched Shark Tank?  It is sort of an interesting program that skims the surface of venture capital and venture capitalists. But, when you watch Shark Tank long enough, you could occupy one of the sharks' chairs and ask all the same questions. Who are you? What is your background? How much of your own money have you committed? Do you have other investors? Where is your proof of concept? Are you currently committing your time and effort, 24/7, to this project?

Of course, Shark Tank is for amateur entrepreneurs in a way. Usually, the Sharks are asked to committed somewhere between $150,000 and $500,000. The usual products are edibles like donuts and vegan treats or single items like a better towel, a better beer can holder, whatever. You don't see guys like Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson or Jeff Bezos on Shark Tank. These guys visit big time venture capitalists with a proven concept seeking millions from so-called "incubators".

If you are really serious about this mega project, and it sounds like you are, that is where you need to be, not here on a model railroad forum. Don't get me wrong, your project is interesting and even jaw dropping. But we are not the guys to get you started. You need to appeal to the financial risk takers to launch your project into some state of reality.

Rich

Alton Junction

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