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Miller Engineering Animated Signs

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  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, December 4, 2020 8:23 AM

RR_Mel
Miller signs come with a power supply that converts the 4.5 volts to high voltage.  EL lighting element runs on 90+ volts.

rrinker
 The power supply is 4.5 volts. But that runs a little circuit that is a boost converter. The signs are made with an electroluminescent sheet or wire, depending on the form of the sign, and those things run on high voltage (but low current). 

Thanks for clarifying that detail for me.

I was confused... even a little bit more than normal.

Huh?   Hmm   Confused   Confused   Huh?   Hmm   Confused   Confused   

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, December 4, 2020 8:13 AM

 The power supply is 4.5 volts. But that runs a little circuit that is a boost converter. The signs are made with an electroluminescent sheet or wire, depending on the form of the sign, and those things run on high voltage (but low current). 

 Thicker versions of the EL wire were often used by people to decorate their computer cases before RGB LEDs became so common (and I still laugh every time they come up with somethign new to add RGB lighting to, always sold as "gamer" - yeah, that stuff is the gamer equivalent to the cut spring Hondas with fart can mufflers pretenting they are now "performance" cars. A serious gamer would save the money on that garbage and spend it on the next level up video card).

 Back when I was a kid, I had some of those Radio Shack Science Fair kits - they originally had a red plastic perforated base, with a clear cover, all the parts and instructions were packed inside. One I had used a row of neon bulbs that would light in sequence, or at random depending on which of two wiring options you did, power source was I think a (V batter, but neon bulbs need 80-100 volts, so the main part of the circuit was a step up converter. You could get a tingle if you touched the wrong part, but it was very low current and not aprticularly dangerous. I know mine had a cheap transformer, it had very audible coil whine when running.

 If you look on the Miller site under the Experimenter's Kits section, you cna see the little power supply that goes between the battery and the EL panel (or between the AC adapter and the EL panel). A clearer view is item #2701 - Inverter. The item on the left, you can see the transformer and two large capacitors (there are more components also) - that's the step up voltage converter to generate the 90V or so required by the EL sheets and wires.

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, December 4, 2020 8:10 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
RR_Mel
The Miller signs are Electroluminescence and have a high voltage power supply, the Electroluminescence requires about 90 volts to operate.  Putting a resistor in series might ding the power supply.

 

On the Miller website they say the signs are 4.5 volts.

Is this a change? Were the older signs 90 volts?

-Kevin

 

Electroluminescence (EL) requires high voltage to operate, the Miller signs come with a power supply that converts the 4.5 volts to high voltage.  EL lighting element runs on 90+ volts.

https://hackaday.com/2011/08/25/all-about-electroluminescence/



Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, December 4, 2020 8:03 AM

RR_Mel
The Miller signs are Electroluminescence and have a high voltage power supply, the Electroluminescence requires about 90 volts to operate.  Putting a resistor in series might ding the power supply.

On the Miller website they say the signs are 4.5 volts.

Is this a change? Were the older signs 90 volts?

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, December 4, 2020 8:00 AM

RR_Mel
 
richhotrain

I don't own any Miller Engineering Signs, so I don't know for sure, but can you install a resistor to reduce the current passing through the sign? On the website, it says that all animated signs draw 95 ma.

Just curious, how are these signs powered? The website mentions 3 AAA batteries.

Rich 

The Miller signs are Electroluminescence and have a high voltage power supply, the Electroluminescence requires about 90 volts to operate.  Putting a resistor in series might ding the power supply. 

LOL. Thanks, Mel. I wondered if I might regret raising that issue. Glad I began that post with "I don't know sure, but...

Just curious, how are these signs powered? The website mentions 3 AAA batteries.

Rich

Alton Junction

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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, December 4, 2020 7:59 AM

 I don;t have anym, but I don't recallt he ones on the club layout being shiny when not lit. I don't think the material the EL wire is made of will be hurt by Dulcote, but I would test before ruinign a sign. A water-based dulling spray would be better than a solvent based one, less likely to cause any damage to the amterials of the sign. 

 It would make the sign thicker, so depending on the use, it may or may not matter, but a thin piece of clear styrene, lightly sanded to frost it, overlayed would make the whole think a lot less shiny. 

                                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, December 4, 2020 7:57 AM

richhotrain

I don't own any Miller Engineering Signs, so I don't know for sure, but can you install a resistor to reduce the current passing through the sign? On the website, it says that all animated signs draw 95 ma.

Rich

 

The Miller signs are Electroluminescence and have a high voltage power supply, the Electroluminescence (EL) requires about 90 volts to operate.  Putting a resistor in series might ding the power supply.
 

Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, December 4, 2020 7:47 AM

I don't own any Miller Engineering Signs, so I don't know for sure, but can you install a resistor to reduce the current passing through the sign? On the website, it says that all animated signs draw 95 ma.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, December 4, 2020 7:22 AM

My Miller Engineering signs aren’t shiny.  They’re pretty old but I don’t remember them being shiny when I first installed them.  Then again when they are on and doing their thing the shine shouldn’t be noticeable.

Might drop them a line and ask about Dullcote.


Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • 200 posts
Miller Engineering Animated Signs
Posted by Jeff1952 on Thursday, December 3, 2020 11:39 PM

Hey Guys. I have a number of Miller Engineering signs and billboards on my layout, as many of you may. Have several more I'm contemplating placing, but... they're so SHINY! I'd like to dull the surface finish so tney don't stick out so much, maybe with one or two coats of Dullcote? Has anybody else tried this, does it work, and does it adversely affect the functions of the sign?? If not Dullcote, any other suggestions to kind of "blend in" the signs so they're not so glaringly different from the weathered buildings?

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