Dave, What do you mean about not haveing any teeth set?
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I just ordered six knife blades for the jig saw. These have no teeth. Are these what you are describing?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190What is a good way to cut Homasote?
Our club cut about a dozen sheets of Homasote into cookie cutter roadbed with a jig saw with very little mess. We used a blade that had a taper ground into it as opposed to one with the teeth 'set'. The taper ground blades slice the Homasote quite cleanly without generating a lot of dust. Blades with a set to the teeth will tear at the Homasote and that is where the mess comes from.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Day 11, Post 1:
The reason there will need to be electrical recepticals in the rear of some of the legs is because I need a place to plug in the power packs as in the photo below.
I do not like opening or modifying electrical equipment. This mounting setup allows me to have a flush-like control center without opening the Troller case.
I added stringers from front to rear made out of 2 by 4 to support the track risers.
There will be a "river" that will run front to back on the layout. It will cross at approximately a 55 degree angle. I cut a diagonal support at 55 degrees to fasten the river bed to. I added to sub=stringers for track supports.
I added 1 by 4 to the top of this stringer. This will be a wider surface to jelp level the river.
I have this bridge model that I bought for $5.00 at a train show in February. It has a couple broken pieces, but it photographs very well.
I will use this bridge where the higher trackage crosses the river.
ATLANTIC CENTRALDid you try any "real" lumber yards rather than box stores
I did not find a knife blade for a jig saw or saws-all at Home Depot.
It is slim picking for the do-it-yourselfer here on the Lower Gulf Coast. We have one very real lumberyard, Raymond Building Supply. Unfortunately they sell to contractors in job lots only.
Other than that, South of Tampa, it is pretty much Big Box stores only, and no Menard's.
Amazing place this "Florida" where you cannot buy ordinary building materials?
Did you try any "real" lumber yards rather than box stores....
Sheldon
I am off to Home Depot to try to find a knife blade for my jig saw, then it sounds like I need to do some experimentation.
I do have dust masks! Safety is always first.
It can be scored and scored and scored and snapped, like drywall, which would be fine for long straight pieces. It can be a little "jaggedly" on the snapped edge, but you can trim it with a knive, or sanding block.
It was much faster with a jig saw, and NOT a real fine blade, as it will constantly plug up.
Mike.
My You Tube
According to the homosote site, it can be cut with a utility knife. If you are going to use a jig saw, find a knife blade for it.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I used it on my last layout. I cut what shapes I needed for road bed with a jig saw, OUTSIDE. And you'll probably want to wear a mask.
You could also use a circular saw for long cuts.
Fast question because I have never worked with Homasote before:
What is a good way to cut Homasote?
I know that sounds like a silly question for an experienced model railroader to ask, but down here is Florida you cannot get Homasote. I smuggled in a truckload from Indiana a few months ago!
Day 10, Post 2:
rrinker No tipping tendency, whith the 2x4s and relatively heavy drywall on one end of the legs and the relatively light plastic 'board' fascia on the other side?
WHOOPS! Yes, tipping became an issue. Not so much because of the weight, but it was windy outside today and the way the drywall was basically a big sail.
I made a "kickstand" for the rear to keep it from tipping.
It fits into this fabricated slot in the center stud. I added a 1 by 2 against the drywall for some added durability.
A cover plate and two wing nuts hold it in place.
Crisis averted! Yes, on the real layout this will not be an issue.
No tipping tendency, whith the 2x4s and relatively heavy drywall on one end of the legs and the relatively light plastic 'board' fascia on the other side?
If I understand what you said, the 'real' layout won't have the drywall mounted to the layout, it will just butt up against the room's drywall, so this wouldn't be an issue on the real thing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Day 10, Post 1:
It is SO HOT today! 89 degrees at 2:00, we are most likely goig right past 90 soon. These are Summertime temperatures! What is up?
Built the "backdrop" for the segment.
Actually, I built a mock wall. Since the backdrop will be painted right onto the drywall in the layout room, I decided to make a wall with drywall.
I found that cutting the studs a 45 degrees right in the center gave me the 4 foot length I was wanting. I spaced the studs at 24". I saw no need to place them at 16 inches on the mock up.
I lifted the wall in place and anchored it with steel angle braces.
When I screwed the rear L girder toi the mock wall it straightened out quite nicely.
rrinker Most of the "plywood as dimensional lumber" techniques I've seen don't end nail or screw it, except possibly when making an L girder, and that's just to hold things while the glue dries, it's a glued joint, not a nailed/screwed one. On right angle joints, nailing blocks are used, so all screws only ever go through the face of the plywood. I guess if I wanted to climb on it, I'd build everything from 2x4s. The old club did that, since it is a permanent layout. All vertical supports are built as stud walls, even ones that are at most 3 feet tall. It's not build individual legs with stringers between them - continuous support 16" on center, just like a structural wall. This does cause some access issue to the underside. I'm really shooting for the opposite - as much unrestricted under-layout access as possible, both for the initial build and then as storage. Girder type structures like L girders allow a far longer run between legs. As long as I cna lean on it without it falling over, I'm good. I have no plans to use the layout as a stepladder to reach the ceiling - abd very little if anything up in the ceiling, like plumbing runs, will fall above the planned layout area anyway (not by careful design, but more a happy accident with the way things are run in my house). I;ve had good luck with 2 layouts with foam tops, but I'm going to a mostly open arrangement this time for better vertical scenery. But my days of screen and hydrocal are long gone, I will be cutting the basic shapes for large areas from extruded foam, smaller areas may get the cardboard web approach. --Randy
Most of the "plywood as dimensional lumber" techniques I've seen don't end nail or screw it, except possibly when making an L girder, and that's just to hold things while the glue dries, it's a glued joint, not a nailed/screwed one. On right angle joints, nailing blocks are used, so all screws only ever go through the face of the plywood.
I guess if I wanted to climb on it, I'd build everything from 2x4s. The old club did that, since it is a permanent layout. All vertical supports are built as stud walls, even ones that are at most 3 feet tall. It's not build individual legs with stringers between them - continuous support 16" on center, just like a structural wall. This does cause some access issue to the underside. I'm really shooting for the opposite - as much unrestricted under-layout access as possible, both for the initial build and then as storage. Girder type structures like L girders allow a far longer run between legs. As long as I cna lean on it without it falling over, I'm good. I have no plans to use the layout as a stepladder to reach the ceiling - abd very little if anything up in the ceiling, like plumbing runs, will fall above the planned layout area anyway (not by careful design, but more a happy accident with the way things are run in my house).
I;ve had good luck with 2 layouts with foam tops, but I'm going to a mostly open arrangement this time for better vertical scenery. But my days of screen and hydrocal are long gone, I will be cutting the basic shapes for large areas from extruded foam, smaller areas may get the cardboard web approach.
I understand.
To me it is just simpler to build a flat open grid from good quality 1x4's, legs every 6' because that is my basic "module size" for possible future relocation. One set of legs at each 6' joint.
3/4" plywood for sub roadbed and large flat areas. Some stuff will be done "cookie cutter" style.
Any given 6' module can be lower than primary base elevation for an area with lower vertical scenery requirements.
My new layout will be fairly deep, 3' to 4' in places, but visable track will basically be in the front 2'.
For me, I just don't see the advantage to foam?
I think I will be installing a removable wood panel ceiling, best idea I have seen for my already low ceiling height of 7'-2". And I think I am going to keep the layout down at about 40".
My first layout, built by my father, was two 5x9 platforms made from 1/2 marine plywood and 1x4 frames with cross members roughly 18" on center. They each sat on 4 legs, made from 1-1/2" rigid pipe with flanges screwed to blocking in the corners. They were more than strong enough to support a person - my 6' spans are over kill, but are based on my desired module size.
Just a general statement here, I am a fan of strong benchwork. I want benchwork I can climb on, benchwork I can lay a protective cover on the layout and lean my weight on to work on deeper sections of scenery.
I don't like foam, tried it several times briefly, will not use it on the new layout. I don't see the point , I would NEVER lay track on it. I'm more a hydrocal hardshell or plaster on wire screen kind of guy......
But then again, we don't use rigid foam in the construction work we do........
rrinker I'll have to drive my truck down your way Sheldon and pick up plywood, the HD and Lowes by me sure do have birch and oak and other plywoods, but ALL of them are 5 plys of the same garbage that is their ragular AC plywood, with a very thing veneer layour of birch or oak, etc. Unless that's what you mean - it just looks good on the face. The good stuff is 13 birch plies, or maybe it's 11 halfway decent plies with a birch veneer. Either way, the more plies, the better, at least if trying to use it as a replacement for dimensional lumber. As a cabinet face, I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference as long as the finished side that shows is really nice. --Randy
I'll have to drive my truck down your way Sheldon and pick up plywood, the HD and Lowes by me sure do have birch and oak and other plywoods, but ALL of them are 5 plys of the same garbage that is their ragular AC plywood, with a very thing veneer layour of birch or oak, etc. Unless that's what you mean - it just looks good on the face. The good stuff is 13 birch plies, or maybe it's 11 halfway decent plies with a birch veneer. Either way, the more plies, the better, at least if trying to use it as a replacement for dimensional lumber. As a cabinet face, I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference as long as the finished side that shows is really nice.
Agreed, more plies means better plywood.......
But, as a carpenter, almost cabinet maker, call me a master trim carpenter......
I would never use plywood to replace deminsional lumber - I don't buy that theory one bit - no matter how many plies.
Plywood will never have the edge fastener holding ability/stablity of demensional lumber.
It is much better to just use good lumber, Poplar in particular. Being the dividing line between hard and soft woods, Poplar mills well, is strong, is generally very stable, takes glue and fasteners well, and if needed paints or stains very well.
I think the benchwork will look great. It's probably stronger than what we need, but the stoutness of it will give a much more quality feel to the entire layout.
1x stock can be untwisted or unbowed fairly easily as its screwed or clamped together. The stuff that's curved along its strong edge is no better than kindling, IMO.
As far as plywood, I picked up some Sande Plywood at the orange store, as I was apparently mezmorized by its beautifully smooth and uniform surface at the time. Got it home and realized it has about the same density as balsa wood. No kidding. I'll probably toss it and pick up more traditional stock.
- Douglas
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just curious, if you don't mind, what do you do for a living? . Sheldon, I do not ever talk too much about my job on here. . -Kevin .
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just curious, if you don't mind, what do you do for a living?
Sheldon, I do not ever talk too much about my job on here.
OK, I understand.
ATLANTIC CENTRALJust curious, if you don't mind, what do you do for a living?
Yes, precuts, that what you got.
All 2x4's are not created equal, that's why there are several different piles of them at the lumber yard......or the orange box store.......and the piles have tags with descriptions.......different lenghts, different species of wood, different grades.......
Kevin, your approach is interesting, and for your goal of one man operation I think you are going in the right direction.
Just curious, if you don't mind, what do you do for a living?
Track fiddlerThe top and bottom plate on a built wall add up to 3 inches for a total of 8 ft
I am amazed that I can still learn so much new stuff doing something I have done several times before.
There is so much to learn about everything. I really appreciate everyone sharing and helping me out.
When I joined these forums two years ago I really thought of myself as a model railroad expert. It only took a few days to realize that is not the case.
It is very rare when I have the answer to someone's question. I'll bet I get ten answers to every answer I give.
SeeYou190 hon30critter I am impressed! . Thank you Dave! I am doing my best with this one. . Tomorrow I am going to build a fake "wall" to be the backdrop. . I went to Home Depot and bought 2 by 4 by 8 foot studs, but they are not quite 8 feet long. . . How come studs are short? . -Kevin .
hon30critter I am impressed!
Thank you Dave! I am doing my best with this one.
Tomorrow I am going to build a fake "wall" to be the backdrop.
I went to Home Depot and bought 2 by 4 by 8 foot studs, but they are not quite 8 feet long.
How come studs are short?
The top and bottom plate on a built wall add up to 3 inches for a total of 8 ft
gmpullmanMaybe you got "Precuts" they are already sized 92-5/8 for the top plate and sole plate so the framers can slam them together quickly.
That must be what it is. I never heard of this, but for framing it sure sounds like a time saver.
I will need to look more carefully.
Thanks.
SeeYou190How come studs are short?
Maybe you got "Precuts" they are already sized 92-5/8 for the top plate and sole plate so the framers can slam them together quickly. Or somebody tossed the precuts into the wrong bin at the lumber yard and you picked them up by mistake?
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2002/09/01/do-precut-studs-make-sense
Good Luck, Ed
Kevin,
I now have a much better idea of what you were shooting for and I am impressed! Some may say that you are over-building your fascia and framework but I think that your results justify your efforts. Besides, the main point in the hobby is to enjoy what you are doing! I get the sense that you are.
Day 9, post 1:
I fabricated the brackets to hold the Troller power pack to the fascia frame. The troller has a face angle of 15 degrees, so I cut the blocks to match. I then installed an hanger bolt for the retaining brace.
I fastened these to the fascia with two #10 wood screws in each one.
A strap of steel, wing nuts, and fender washers do a great job holding the power pack securely in position. This set up makes it very easy to replace the pack from underneath if necessary.
The pack has a nice flush mount finished appearance from the front.
On the real layout is will look even better. I still need to work on my skills with the router, but it is all progressing quite well.
When I build the real fascia I need to set the depth of the biscuit cutter more shallow so I do not hit the biscuits when I router out the openings.
As Maria Von Trapp said "I have confidence in me". (for all us musical theater geeks, I know she was not Maria Von Trapp yet when she sang that song, but I cannot recall her maiden name, sorry.)
Day 8, Post 2:
More success and a very good day. I continued the day by cutting two more openings into the fascia panel for the control panels.
The first one is 5 1/2" by 4 1/2". I made the smaller size by adding two pieces of 1 by 2 to the inside of the power pack cutting template.
The second control panel opening will be 10 1/2" by 4 1/2". I made a template for a 10 1/2" by 6" hole, and made it smaller using a single 1 by 2 spacer.
You can see in this image the mess made by the process of using the router to cut the control panel opening.
Wear the dust mask, and clean the mess with a shop vacuum. If that PVC mess gets in your yard it will probably be there forever. This is a job for a non-windy day for sure.
I drew the profile for the fascia board and cut it out with a jig saw. I used a blade marked "smooth wood" for the cut. It is a pretty coarse toothed blade. I think a fine tooth blade would generate too much heat and melt the PVC.
I chose to use epoxy to join the PVC fascia panel to the wooden L girder. I mixed it up and brushed it onto the joint.
Then assembly and a few cl;amps to hold it all securely while the epoxy cures. The fascia looks great sitting on top of the wooden L girder.
Just for a little added security, it never hurts to add a few steel braces to hold eveything together.
Day 8, Post 1:
FINALLY SOME SUCCESS! And it is very good success. I feel that the PVC will be a perfect solution for the fascia boards.
I started with the Router Guide I made last night. It fit perfectly!
The inner template that is sized for the Troller Transamp 2.5 was installed in the guide, and I am ready for an attempt.
The handiness of having outlets on the layout legs is made evident in this picture.
BE SAFE!
I cannot stress this enough. The PVC will make all kinds of dust when it is routed out. WEAR A DUST MASK! These are inexpensive and will surely make your life better.
I started by cutting across the template in both directions and measured the cut. It is perfect! 6 1/8" by 7 1/8" just like I planned.
The finished hole has a nice look to it. The PVC board sure finished up quite nicely.
The Troller power pack fits perfectly in it new home.
I love it when a plan comes together. Now I need to cut two more holes for the control panels and trim the profile.
Back to work.