The LEDs are inside the push buttons. The push buttons are right in the track diagram, so the LEDs light up the selected route.
Yes, the LEDs are in series with the Tortoise machine. This is a wiring method recommended by Circuitron. It is right in the instructions. Yes, the load of the stall motor provides the needed voltage drop, no resistors needed.
Because every turnout on my mainline can be operated from both the CTC panel and a local tower panel, that means there are two sets of LEDs in series with all the switch machines. This drops the voltage to the Tortoise by about 4 volts, making the operating voltage about 8 volts.
Keep in mind, this is just one circuit in a fully intergrated system.
Other contacts on these same relays provide track power routing for "X" sections, power frogs, and provide signal logic for interlocking signals.
Sheldon
The slightly more 'technical' explanation is, the Tortoise motors draw at 15ma stalled. Most LEDs are good for 20-25ma, so 15ma is well within the 'safe' range. This fellow Kirchoff long ago found out that when you have multiple loads in series, the current flowing through one is the same as the current flowign through any other - so if 15ma flows throught he Tortoise, 15ma will flow throught he LEDs. For the voltage side of things, the voltages add up. So if you feed 12V in, and the LEDs use 2V, the Tortoise gets 10V instead of the full 12V - which is more than enough, they still run fast enough, and the slightly lower voltage makes them quieter as well.
LEDs are current devices - the voltage doesn't matter too much, it's the current. Too much current and they blow up (sometimes literally). They are diodes, so they have a voltage drop, but it's in the range of 2-3 volts, instead of the typical .7V of a basic silicon diode. So you can feed an LED with a 12V power supply, so long as the current is limited to less than the maximum the LED is designed for. You cna feed the LED 6V. Or 9V.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Not sure how having both point rails the same polarity simplifies DC wiring. Kind of has nothing to do with it, really. Plenty of other turnouts DON'T have the two points at the same polarity and don;t require anythign special for DC - points the same polarity or not are not what determines power routing capability, if that's what you are referring to - but using just the built in contacts for power routing isn't really reliable anyway, never had been - sure in the 'good old days' everyone did that, pull into a siding, flip the turnout back to the main, and the train on the siding stayed put because the power was cut off, but eventually those contacts stopped making good contact. Better to not rely on the point touching the stock rail to provide power and instead use swich machine contacts, or something driven by the switch machine. After all, with all the other overbuilding, why skimp here and rely on the turnout bits to conduct power?
Sheldon: Thank you for answering all my questions, that makes good sense.
.
Randy: Maybe simpler is not the most correct, but it is what I am used to, and comfortable with. I can wire solid frog turnouts all day and never have problems or need to figure out anything new. They meet all my needs.
I am not trying to be like an old dog and ignore new tricks, but at the same time, I have a big "if it is not broken, don't fix it" sort of mentality about these things.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Randy,
Yes, I was trying to answer that part of his question in one sentence.....
Day 27, Post 1:
I finished laying the trackwork on the upper level up to the big bridge. Everything was successful, but I only had a little over an hour to work on it today.
I drilled the ties as before and spiked on the outside of the rails. It sure is better spiking into Homasote than into plywood like I am used to.
It is looking like a train layout, just a little bit, but it is getting there.
Day 28, Post 1:
I bought a new communication/control cable for my MRC Cab 55 walk around throttle. I purchased 12 feet of 4 conductor shielded 22 gauge wire.
The outer cover plainly said 22 gauge wires.
I cut away a small piece and opened it up. The cable contains two pairs of wires that are twisted together, and a shield wrapping.
I was concerned because the red and black wires looked a lot smaller than the blue and white wires. I wanted all the wires to be 22 guage, and the red and black wires looked much smaller.
I was relieved to find the difference in diameter was all in the insulation, and the wires are in fact all 22 guage stranded and tinned wire.
Now I need to see what I need to do to feed this wire neatly into the MRC model 55 walkaround cab controller.
I usede a bunch of that, from job sites, on my last layout, a center island, cab control, (2 cabs), with my home made version of a walk around throttle, which was a cheap Tyco type power pack, I could plug in at various spots around the layout.
I also used it to wire back to all of the Atlas block control switches I had on a wall mounted control panel.
Actually, I use that wire for just about everything.
I worked on lots of WWTF's and all of the communication cables were made of this type of wire, some had more than 2 prs., and I was able to collect rolls of the stuff. I still have some.
I never did find a use for the foil sheating, I even saved a pile of that!
Mike.
My You Tube
Kevin...... I've been following your thread all the way through like a fly on the wall.
Bless your soul in your attention to detail and structure.
Your idea for building model railroad benchwork is so well over the top all the inspectors I have ever dealt with my whole life would fade away in wonder.
This is a compliment not a cut. This is why I stayed away from your thread the whole time.
My whole reasoning, I would be a conflict of interest....... The next time I'm building a giant Deck with the possibility of a 200-person live load...... you Da man
You're a cool guy Kevin. I can see by the likes of you in your driveway and your red cars..... I like red cars,
I'm thinking about getting one of those yellow green ones, the color the construction guys wear. Paint my truck that color so I don't get T-Boned in my truck again.
Beautiful well thought out work I saw on your thread..... maybe overkill but beautiful work. I saw it, I like it.
Track Fiddler
Track fiddlerKevin...... I've been following your thread all the way through like a fly on the wall
Thank you for all the kind words. I know there are a lot of other "Flies On The Wall" out there based on the hits the pictures are getting on Imgur.
I have really enjoyed this project. It is giving me a real sense this layout design will work.
And... it is keeping me from going nuts waiting on contractors to work on my house! I have worked from home for two weeks to meet with these people, and nobody seems to want my money. I need some stuff done before I can move on to the train room.
Day 29, Post 1:
Well, time to get to wiring. I already soldered wires to the underside of of the rails that are closest to viewer. Now I need to solder the wires on the far side of the rails, and also the stub ends of the track inside the tunnel to both rails.
After all the wires are attached, I build the "wiring harness" for the layout. I don't use Scotchlok suitcase connectors on the initial build, but if I need to add an new feeded after the scenery is in place, I will use them. They sure beat soldering above your head while you are underneath the layout.
For building a harness, I solder the connections off of the bus, then insulate them with heat shrink tubing. It is important to remember to slide the pieces of heat shrink tubing down the wire before you make the connections.
I use 10 gauge wire for the main layout bus, 14 gauge for the local bus, and 22 gauge wire for the track feeders. Since this is just a small layout segment, I skipped the main bus and went straight to 14 gauge wire with the 22 gauge feeders.
To make a connection I remove approximately 1/2" of insulation from the bus, and twist a feeder around the larger wire.
I Solder the wires together. Make sure the wire gets hot enough so the solder goes into the wire strands, not just puddle and blob on the surface.
Then I insulate the connection by shrinking the tubing into final position.
This should be a connection that will give a lifetime of reliable service.
I also use this method for connections with 2, 3, or even 4 branches off of the bus. Just be sure to run the heat shrink tubing down one side with all the wires inside of it.
Making this connection is a job for the 80 watt Weller soldering iron.
I make sure that the wire feeders are long enough to allow me to make these connections without working underneath the layout.
There you have it... the wiring bus connections for my layout.
#10 main bus? Even the DCC guys are just staring with their mouths open. Are you filling a hanger? Even the club layout, which fully assembled is something like 28x150, only has #12 bus lines (but several boosters spaced about the thing) and there are no issues with dozens of trains running. #14 was more than satisfactory for my last layout, filling about a 13x17 room.
I hope you're using #10 because someone gave you a whole bunch, and you aren't actually buying it. There's really no point, even for DCC. #12 for my old layout would have been at the overkill level, #14 was even probably mildly overkill. and that's with the "more sensitive" DCC. My basement layout in planning, approximately 26x26 of space plus staging in the laundry room, and 2 decks, will use #12 for the main deck and I am not the least bit concered with it. Not now, not 20 years down the road, if I am still here and running it.
rrinker#10 main bus? Even the DCC guys are just staring with their mouths open.
Hmmmmm... The part I left out was that I solder feeders to every other piece of sectional track. I thought people would believe that was too much overkill.
Yes, I have always used #10 for my main bus. I used to use #16 for feeders, but I became tired of the appearance of big ugly wires on my rails.
I use #10 for all my speaker wires too.
Yes, I bought it, but I have plenty left from the 100 foot rolls I bought 10 years ago to finishe this layout.
Over kill again I see.
OK, I'm a fellow DC guy, and I use a "throttle bus" for each wireless throttle since each of my Aristo Craft base units has to feed a cab selection relay board for each primary block.
The cab sellection relay boards are located near the block they serve, so they are spread around the layout. Each throttle has its own 4 amp regulated power supply.
I use #12 wire for the throttle bus, you know, #12 wire rated at 5 times my maximum current value..........
I know everybody does it, but being an old fashioned relay control system electrician by original training, I just can't bring myself to strip insulation off the middle of a run of wire and "tap" it with a "drop". All wires are joined at some sort of terminal block or solder strip. But the "tap" thing would not work for my application anyway.
My track feeders are typically 22 gauge drops directly to the cab selection relay board for that block. Because of detection requirements each block has only one set of feeders.
The wiring I do looks more like this:
I do the middle strip and solder, but only because 'modern' tools make it easy - the Ideal Stripmaster and the equivalent Klein, at least. None of that silly twice around with a knife then a longitudinal cut to remove a piece of insulation, thses tools do it in no more time that it takess to strip the end of one wire to put a crimp terminal on to wire it to a terminal strip. Terminal strips near every feeder - now that would take me months to wire a small layout since I have feeders to every piece of track, or at least, every other piece of track, since I solder pairs of flex track together. I probably will do that where I tap off my #12 main bus to a #14 detection bus, since there won't be one of thoese every few feet.
rrinker I do the middle strip and solder, but only because 'modern' tools make it easy - the Ideal Stripmaster and the equivalent Klein, at least. None of that silly twice around with a knife then a longitudinal cut to remove a piece of insulation, thses tools do it in no more time that it takess to strip the end of one wire to put a crimp terminal on to wire it to a terminal strip. Terminal strips near every feeder - now that would take me months to wire a small layout since I have feeders to every piece of track, or at least, every other piece of track, since I solder pairs of flex track together. I probably will do that where I tap off my #12 main bus to a #14 detection bus, since there won't be one of thoese every few feet. --Randy
And I get it for the every 6' drop thing in DCC.
But I know lots of ex DC modelers now using DCC who simply tied all their block feeders together and hooked up their booster with no problems.
Still not sure I buy into the need for the every 6' of track stuff.
I solder every rail joint within each block, and many of my DC blocks are 30-40 feet long, never had any problems with voltage drop.
I know with DCC it is also about signal quality, but again, seen lots of DCC layouts without all that with no problems.
SeeYou190I use 10 gauge wire for the main layout bus,
Well, the good thing about having all that copper in the layout is there may actually be some scrap value to it! How many layouts can boast that?!?
Sorry Kevin, I'm not disrespecting your choices. I overbuild things too. I just couldn't resist taking the shot!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I worked my way up in the world of industrial and heavy equipment.
If it is good enough for a 1:1 200 ton heavy lift crane, it is good enough for the 1:87 STRATTON AND GILLETTE!
If I do it any other way, it just looks breakable.
I refuse to look under the hood of any of my cars.
rrinker I do the middle strip and solder, but only because 'modern' tools make it easy - the Ideal Stripmaster and the equivalent Klein, at least. None of that silly twice around with a knife then a longitudinal cut to remove a piece of insulation,
I have the Klein tool. I can strip away a 1/2" piece in the middle in less than 5 seconds. So much better than when I used a #11 blade in the old days.
ATLANTIC CENTRALStill not sure I buy into the need for the every 6' of track stuff.
I would never go more than 36 inches without a power feeder. I hate it when trains slow down and speed up as thet get farthe/nearer a power feeder. My A/B set of Athearn PAs with lighted coaches need healthy juice.
hon30critterWell, the good thing about having all that copper in the layout is there may actually be some scrap value to it! I'm not disrespecting your choices. I just couldn't resist taking the shot!
I love it Dave! I appreciate any comments. Thank you for reading my progress reports.
I use #20 for my feeders, I think #18 even looks too big next to Code 83 HO rails. And that's for every 3 feet or so. For every piece of sectional - the aggregate of all those wires even using something as small as #20 would be insanely large.
I don't think all this is NEEDED for DCC - two layouts ago, as soon as I got the track down I wanted to run trains - I had all these feeder drops hanging down, but I hadn't run the bus wire around yet, so I hooked my system to one set of feeders - one set of feeders attached to ONE of the main lines, and the whole layout operated reliably. An 8x12 double track donut with a yard and several sidings. All track joints were not soldered, and painting the rails did not stop the power flow at the unsoldered joints. I did add the bus wire later, as this was original envisioned as just the start of a significantly larger layout. I'm not advocating everyone just use two wires to the track and done - but it DOES work. If you have good track. I built a 4x8 test oval using Bachmann EZ-Track and it didn;t work with a DC power pack without adding extra feeders. Locos would noticeably slow as they got further from the power connection. I ended up adding 3 more feeder sets, so there were four sets of feeders equally spaced around the loop, then it worked great for testing DC locos before installing decoders.
rrinkerI built a 4x8 test oval using Bachmann EZ-Track and it didn;t work with a DC power pack without adding extra feeders. Locos would noticeably slow as they got further from the power connection.
I notice the exact same thing when I set up a small layout with my Kato Unitrack. Even a modest loop requires multiple feeders.
My Christmas layout is EZ Track, and Bachmann PLUS locos, it's about a total of 20' of mainline when all set up, double track, and I have feeders going to 4 places.
So many track joints, it needs feeders.
SeeYou190 rrinker I built a 4x8 test oval using Bachmann EZ-Track and it didn;t work with a DC power pack without adding extra feeders. Locos would noticeably slow as they got further from the power connection. . I notice the exact same thing when I set up a small layout with my Kato Unitrack. Even a modest loop requires multiple feeders. . -Kevin .
rrinker I built a 4x8 test oval using Bachmann EZ-Track and it didn;t work with a DC power pack without adding extra feeders. Locos would noticeably slow as they got further from the power connection.
Well of course, rail joints every 9" not soldered. That is a big difference compared to my 30 feet of flex track with soldered joints.
Most all my trains are powered by 3-4 diesels on two steamers, no slowing down......
Right, sitting right next to the 4x8 Bachmann track loop was the 8x12 donut layout, with every other joint soldered - one pair of feeders ran it no problem. Big difference between sectional track and flex. No way would I use sectional for a decent size layout. Once I learned to use flex, it was all over for sectional. The Bachmann stuff was an impule buy at a trains how - originally I had a simple circle eith one straight peice in two sides, on a card table just to test run my first locos - that worked with one set of feeders.
Day 30, Post 1:
Time to hook up all the wires.
Here is a super-handy time saver that I do not have any idea why it is not talked about in the Model Railroad press more often. It is a 1/4" spade connector with both male and female connections. It fits over a 1/4" spade connector, and lets you attach another 1/4" spade connector to it.
It sure makes daisy-chaining toggles a whole lot easier.
The whole control panel is wired up for the upper tracks and the 14 gauge bus wires are attached.
Before I would put a train locomotive on the tracks, I test the operation of all the tracks with this testing tool.
I have talked about this tool in here before. It is very simple made with an 1157 tail light/brake light bulb. This lets me test the wiring under a controlled dynamic load.
With just the tail light filament lit, the bulb draws about 1/2 of an amp in current.
When the toggle switch is moved to the ON position both the tail light and brake lamp filaments are powered. In this position the circuit draws 2 amps of current from the power pack. I use Troller 2.5 amp power packs, so the source can handle the load. I leave the load on for several minutes and check for any problems.
Everything checked out good, so I put a train on the track and ran it back and forth a few timed. Everything worked perfectly.
Electric trains are now running. Does this project officially count as a segment of a layout now?
Kevin,
Yes those are very handy, I use them all the time......for stuff other than model trains.
Why not model trains? Because I don't use full size toggles with 1/4 terminals any more for model trains.
I use much smaller sub minature switches in the few applications where I am not using my LED lighted sub mini pushbuttons.
I only use toggles for few special functions, but toggles or pushbuttons, my panels need to be more compact than old fashioned full sized toggles will allow.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't use full size toggles with 1/4 terminals any more for model trains.
I prefer the tactile "feel" to throwing a traditional full sized toggle switch. As long as I can figure a way to get enough room for them, I will continue to use them.
I also like those old style stacked pancake rotary switches.
Day 31, Post 1:
I am working on the lower level of trackage now.
Since this is the layout project for experimentation, I am doing it a bit different on this level.
On the upper level I put down Homasote, then used cork roadbed on top of the homasote. For the lower trackage I am carefully cutting the 45 degree bevel on the homasote close to the trackage. There will be no cork roadbed, the profile of the homasote board will be the roadbed.
I think this might be a better idea. I like the nice tall roadbed look. I can easily build up the scenery base from the bottom if I want a lower roadbed profile.
I muckered up the roadbed where it met the tunnel portal on the right side. Oh well, that is what Sculptamold is for!
This is really starting to look like a cool scenic setting in the making.
On the left side I have decided to model the tunnel portal as if it was once a double track mainline, but one of the tracks has been abandoned.
I added another section of plywood subroadbed mounted to the original section with splice plates to support the wider trackage right of way.
Actually, I had that wooden double tunnel portal in my junk box and had no idea what to do with it!
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't use full size toggles with 1/4 terminals any more for model trains. . I prefer the tactile "feel" to throwing a traditional full sized toggle switch. As long as I can figure a way to get enough room for them, I will continue to use them. . I also like those old style stacked pancake rotary switches. . -Kevin .
I like the tactile feel of real switches too, but I need the pushbuttons for the ability to have multiple control stations for the same task, and space is a concern.
Day 32, Post 1:
I am going to finsih the last little bit of trackwork on this project.
This little bit on the left side of the big bridge is all that is left.
I have cut the homasote subroadbed, and now I am waiting for the glue to dry for a little while.
Day 32, Post 2:
Well... Somehow I bought the wrong Bridge Flex Track by Micro Engineering. I bought code 70 and I wanted code 83. Oh well, I can make it work.
This will be the track for the long bridge on the left side of the segment. I trimmed it to length, and allowed about an inch extra on each end. I trimmed off the bridge ties from the part that will extend beyond the end of the bridge.
I clamped the track down securely and filed the ends smooth. Even the factory cut end on this piece of track needed to be trued and smoothed out.
I removed some ties from a straight piece of Atlas sectional track.
These ties were slid down the Micro Engineering Bridge Track, and it looks pretty darned good.
Now I could lay down the last track on the far left upper level.
The last feeder wires were fed through.
These feeders will all be in a tunnel, so there was no need to solder them to the bottom of the rails. They were all simply soldered to the sides of the rails.
Happy with the productivity so far today.