ATLANTIC CENTRALYes, it needes to be #12 wire, but why conduit or armored cable? Some local code in your world? As long as proper bushings are used thru metal, and wire is property routed, ROMEX would be fine. And, it is normal practice to use 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit, actually outlined and explained in the NEC.
.
I come from the commercial world, I have no experience in residential. In fact, almost all my experience is in three phase.
To me, the layout wiring is exposed, it is not inside a wall. So to me, everything should be metal jacketed and grounded.
It might be overkill, but I will feel better about it.
I am glad to hear my electrician's instructions sound up to par. I was uneasy about the idea of 15 amp recepticals on a 20 amp circuit, but my kitchen is hooked up like that too.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
BigDaddy ATLANTIC CENTRAL I gave up on L girder theory after just one layout built with it in the 70's. Why? I saved the L-griders from my 1980's layout torn down in 1999, until 7 months before I got back into model railroading in 2015
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I gave up on L girder theory after just one layout built with it in the 70's.
Why?
I saved the L-griders from my 1980's layout torn down in 1999, until 7 months before I got back into model railroading in 2015
One, I lost interest in the free form fasica idea
Two, I did not like the deep "depth" from the top of the stringers to the bottom of the L girders. I found the "dramic" scenery effects L girder was designed for to not really be too my liking, and effects below track level just as easily built with flat open grid.
Then I tried my hand at multi decks, where benchwork thickness was even more of an issue. I have since rejected multi decks, but L gider would offer no benefits on the new layout.
Today, on my new layout, I woud not waste the extra space under the layout which I plan to use for storage.
And, I'm not one given to changing stuff after I build it, another virtue of L girder I have no need for.
I have never been one to salvage lumber or glued/ballasted track from old layouts.....
The new layout will be built in table top type modules just in case I ever need to move it. I have cabinet level carpentry skills.
I'm an engineering type, I plan stuff before I build, I don't need "adaptable" or "figure it out as you go" methods.
Sheldon
Yes, it needes to be #12 wire, but why conduit or armored cable?
Some local code in your world?
As long as proper bushings are used thru metal, and wire is property routed, ROMEX would be fine.
And, it is normal practice to use 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit, actually outlined and explained in the NEC.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI gave up on L girder theory after just one layout built with it in the 70's.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Day 3, Post 2:
Electrical....
My electrician is going to install a dedicated 20 amp circuit breaker just for the layout. The layout will plug into this circuit at only one point. The layout will all be wired for 110 VAC.
The electrician said to use 12 Guage wire for all connections in the layout since it is a 20 amp circuit, but use 15 amp recepticals in the legs. He said that since no singe load would exceed even 2 amps, there was no reason to use 20 amp recepticals.
I found a very neat product on Home Depot that is a life saver. It is an eight foot section of 12 guage wire already installed in a flexible metal conduit. This saves countless hours of messing with rigid conduit.
This comes with pre-assembled end fittings that snap into the 1/2" knock outs in the elecrtrical boxes. This snap in fitting is very tight and secure. There is also a plastic bushing in the connection so there can be no wire abrasion.
The knock out covers in the legs are not easy to remove in these items. I have found it is much less frustrating if a 1/8" hole is drilled in four locations to weaken the joint.
Then I knock the covers off with a pin punch and large hammer. The opening will still need to be cleaned up a bit with a half round mill file.
I have always found it to be very helpful to tap the holes in all metal electrical boxes before I use them. The manufacturing process for these parts usually results in poorly formed threads. This is a huge headache saver.
I did use rigid metal conduit for the front-to-back electrical connection. This requires no bends, just a 20 inch piece of straight tubing.
I always check continuity between the ground prong on the plug and the metal legs. There should be less than 1 ohm resistance. Grounding all metal components is very importants, so I always verify it is good.
I also check groud continuity to the metal conduit and electrical boxes.
Then I hooked up power, and verified the electrical recepticals were wired correctly with this simple testing tool.
This is what the finished base segment looks like:
I decided that segment is the correct term for this. It is not a module or section. The layout will continue in both directions, this is just a portion of the benchwork.
The L Girders are in place, this is pretty much the structural element that the layout will be supported by.
The next steps will be the fascia extension, then the backdrop and trackbed.
Fun fun fun.
ATLANTIC CENTRALStill waiting to see how the layout will attach to what you have so far.
I do not have anything so far. This is just an experiment of the structural / scenic / trackwork design I would like to use.
I have no issue with building a layout lower than what most are doing, I am working on that choice right now myself.
But unlike the current trend, most of my layout will have deep scenery, 3-4 feet in many places. Visable trackage will be up front in easy reach, but scenes with have depth.
Still waiting to see how the layout will attach to what you have so far.
I gave up on L girder theory after just one layout built with it in the 70's. I plan to make the most of storage space under the layout and have considered building some level of custom casework for the front of the benchwork.
I have 1700 record albums, 900 music CD's, and complete sets of RMC and MR back into the 1940's that I want to also store/catalog in the train room. As well as making it my primary listening room.
This is why almost all of the hidden staging will actually be accessed from above, not below.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe steel legs are fine idea, if they suit the height and depth requirements if your layout. Not sure they would work for me. Not sure your really need all those biscuits and such? But I really don't yet understand how the layout surface will attach to all this?
The layout will be significantly lower than what the "experts" in this hobby are building.
The layout will be operable from a seated position or a wheelchair. I do not want to give up my layout because of mobility issues 20 years down the road.
My last two layouts have been much higher, and I really did not like all the inconvenience this caused.
I have used biscuits only a couple of times before. For joining "one by" lumber on the thin side they work great.
I am a carpenter, and I am watching and waiting before commenting too much.
The steel legs are fine idea, if they suit the height and depth requirements if your layout. Not sure they would work for me.
Not sure your really need all those biscuits and such? But I really don't yet understand how the layout surface will attach to all this?
Day 3, Post 1:
I got a late start today.
I added the 2 by 4 bottom pieces below the legs. On the actual layout this is where the leveling shims will be placed, in between the leg bottom and the 2 by 4.
Now onto the electrical outlets.
SeeYou190the legs are only about $30.00 each, so the added expense is not all that much.
Ok, I'm sold! You obviously know what you are doing.
I'm looking forward to watching your progress.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter I think the heavy duty steel legs are a bit of overkill. You could make 'L' shaped legs from 1x2s and 1x3s that would support far more weight than they will ever need to.
Absolutely true.
I am very familiar with these steel legs. These are the same legs I use on my workbench in the house for model building:
And on my workbench in the garage, which has also been taken over by models.
These legs, while a bit much for model railroad benchwork, have some amazing features. The electrical receptical knock-out is a great feature. Having outlets all along the fron of the layout will be a huge convenience.
The legs are only 2 3/4" wide, which saves all kind of space under the layout. There will hardly be a spot I need to get to where a supporting piece will be in the way.
There is also no way the legs will ever twist, warp, or deform. In the Florida tropical humidity, this is always a concern.
With my pricing consideration at Grainger, the legs are only about $30.00 each, so the added expense is not all that much.
SeeYou190This whole thing is also serving double-duty as a diorama for a few railroad shots. It will be fully scenicked and photo-ready when I am done, but it will not fit into the layout plan anywhere. Along with benchwork testing, it is also a test of a few ideas in other areas too.
Okay, I understand.
SeeYou190I am also open to ideas for improvement... I never claimed to be a carpenter.
If I may suggest, I think the heavy duty steel legs are a bit of overkill. You could make 'L' shaped legs from 1x2s and 1x3s that would support far more weight than they will ever need to. Heck, you could just use 2x4s. That's what we did at the club. Not pretty, but they work.
I'm not being critical. I suspect that you get a lot of pleasure from building things very solidly. I overbuild things too. Like I have mentioned in other threads, I built a $4000 deck for $7000 and I was very proud of myself. You should be too.
hon30critterIf it works, why scrap it.
This whole thing is also serving double-duty as a diorama for a few railroad shots. It will be fully scenicked and photo-ready when I am done, but it will not fit into the layout plan anywhere. Along with benchwork testing, it is also a test of a few ideas in other areas too.
If I can make the scene look good enough, and get a good enough picture, I will submit it to Trackside Photos in Model Railroader.
Once it has served all these puposes, the only parts I plan to save are the legs.
hon30critterExcellent work, by the way.
Thank you for the compliment. I am doing my best!
I am also open to ideas for improvement... I never claimed to be a carpenter.
Kevin,
That "low grade" wood looks pretty decent to me. If it works, why scrap it. The weathering won't hurt anything and it won't be seen, so why not just use it? You can send me the money that you save, along with those tool chests you promised me!
Excellent work, by the way.
Day 2, Post 3:
For this experiment I am using inexpensive low quality builder grade wood. When I build the actual layout I will use premium wood. This experiment is destined for the landfill, so I see no reason to spend funds on the premium wood.
I am using biscuits and wood glue for as many of the joints as possible. I opted for #10 biscuits.
C clamps are great for holding the L girder together during assembly. Until a few countersunk wood screws are installed.
I am going to stagger the joints between the horizontal and vertical parts of the L girder. I use biscuits at the butt joints also.
The steel leg assemblies are rated at 2,000 pounds each, or 4,000 pounds for the pair. I believe that is more than enough to support the weight if a section of HO scale railroad layout.
The legs have an adjustable height feature. I did some measuring, and I think the second hole is where I want to set the height.
At the locations where the legs attach, or where there is a joint in the L girder, I chose to install a support block made from two by four.
I fastened the legs to the L girders with 1/4 inch lag screws. I thought I would need diagonal bracing, but the assembly is remarkably rigid. I do not think cross bracing will be necessary for this project.
I will continue work tomorrow.
SeeYou190the whole garage is full of stuff that does not belong there.
Hey Kevin! I'll take those tool chests off your hands any time, that is if they are free and you will deliver them.... to Canada..... in the winter.... Oh, I guess not eh?
By the way, my garage looks pretty much like that too!
Day 2, Post 2:
Failure to post this earlier, nor sure what happened. Sorry if this is a duplicate post.
I did not think this through as well as I could have. It is three days until Christmas, and the whole garage is full of stuff that does not belong there.
It looks like I will need to do this job in the driveway. One more good reason to live in Florida! I can work in the driveway in December in shorts and a T shirt.
Day 2 Post 1:
middlemanI enjoyed your layout mock-up thread,Kevin. Looking forward to your posts on this
Thank you Mike. I really could call this "Project 3", with the house remodel being "Project 2", but that is much less fun and more frustrating.
This is a sketch of the basic structural part cross section. The steel legs will support two "L girders" fabricated from 1 by X premium lumber. The front L girder will have two additional tiers of lumber to become the fascia.
I hope to get this much done today... off to the lumber yard.
I enjoyed your layout mock-up thread,Kevin. Looking forward to your posts on this.
Mike
Last Updated March 23rd, 2020.
This project is now completed, and it was a total success. I learned a lot, I proved my benchwork concept is sound, and most importantly, I had a lot of fun along the way.
Please read through the thread to see how this was built from the ground up.
Day 1, Post 1
This is my second major project proving the design and ideas for my last lifetime layout. I am going to spend the next couple of weeks building a "proof of concept" section of my benchwork design I am going to use on my next layout.
The first project was over a year ago, and was a 1:1 (full scale) mockup of the entire layout. It can be seen here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/262808.aspx
I will take pictures of the process and progress and keep the updates coming.
Step 1: I went to Grainger and puchased a pair of steel workbench legs to use as the support. I love the beginning of a new project. I am in for a fun couple of weeks.