ATLANTIC CENTRALYes, the plumbing glue is the right glue - PVC is PVC.
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That is very good to hear! I am glad I got the right advice from Home Depot. I think the website should have made that clear.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI hate to tell you now, but they also sell that stuff in 4x8 sheets.
For this small project I would not have wanted a big sheet, but this is good information for the layout build.
Thank you.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I'll have to drive my truck down your way Sheldon and pick up plywood, the HD and Lowes by me sure do have birch and oak and other plywoods, but ALL of them are 5 plys of the same garbage that is their ragular AC plywood, with a very thing veneer layour of birch or oak, etc. Unless that's what you mean - it just looks good on the face. The good stuff is 13 birch plies, or maybe it's 11 halfway decent plies with a birch veneer. Either way, the more plies, the better, at least if trying to use it as a replacement for dimensional lumber. As a cabinet face, I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference as long as the finished side that shows is really nice.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Yes, the plumbing glue is the right glue - PVC is PVC.......
I hate to tell you now, but they also sell that stuff in 4x8 sheets.......
Sheldon
Day 7, Post 4:
I have the guide plate for the new router templates completed. I sure hope my math is correct this time.
I am sure there is an easy formula for cutting a 6 inch by 7 inch hole with a 5/8" straight bit, and 6 inch diameter router base, but I made this a lot more difficult than it needed to be.
We will find out tomorrow if I am right.
My confidence is about an 8 out of 10 on this attempt.
Day 7, Post 3:
I went to the website for the manufacturer of the PVC lumber. They reccomend using PVC solvent to glue the boards to one another. I went to Home Depot and asked for "PVC Solvent Glue" and was told the only thing they had was for PVC pipe in the plumbing section, so I guess that is what I am going to use.
I glued the PVC 1 by 4 to the PVC 1 by 6, and clamped the whole thing, and set it aside to cure together. I staggered the joints because that is most likeluy how it will be on the actual layout.
I also figured out my math mistake for the template to router the opening for the Troller Transmp 2.5 power pack, and set out to fabricate a new one.
This one is also made of much better quality wood.
This was a much better day. I feel like I actually got some stuff done... AND... I finished a freight car to post in Weekend Photo Fun tomorrow!
ATLANTIC CENTRALCellular PVC lumber has no structural value, it will sag, bent, move in every direction. We use it for most all exterior trim now, but it is always backed up with framing lumber.
I am aware of this, so I am only using it for the fascia board. The new L girder is made of clear kiln dried pine.
The PVC product seems very promising for what I want to do with my fascia panel. It had thickness for recessed control panels, and has a real durability factor in its favor.
I am excited about it.
Cellular PVC lumber has no structural value, it will sag, bent, move in every direction.
We use it for most all exterior trim now, but it is always backed up with framing lumber.
Day 7, Post 2:
The new L girder is ready to install. It looks so much better than the original one that warped all over the place.
I wonder if doing this project ouside added to the complications with the wood I chose the first time.
Day 7, Post 1:
Went to the Home Depot this morning and looked at the "premium" selection of lumber they have. It is all options for "trim boards", nothing hardwood, fir, or anything furniture grade.
It looks like the best option for wood is this "Selex" product that is kiln dried, clear, planed, and primed. I am buiding a new L grider for the front with this product.
For the Fascia panel that will go on top of the L girder I decided to try a different product. They have boards made from PVC that supposedly will never warp or rot. This sounds like a good idea.
We will need to see how this works out.
The product says if you can work with wood you can work with PVC boards. Well, my skills with wood are questionable, so lets see how badly I can mess this up...
I will keep you posted.
SeeYou190 Poplar absolutely is my first choice, but for right now, in my area no home improvement stores are carrying it. . Home Depot used to stock clear fir, oak, and poplar. They also had furniture grade birch plywood. . None of that is available now. . I could probably find poplar locally at another source, but I am on a limited time frame, and this is an experiment anyway. . I will see what I can find tomorrow. . -Kevin .
Poplar absolutely is my first choice, but for right now, in my area no home improvement stores are carrying it.
Home Depot used to stock clear fir, oak, and poplar. They also had furniture grade birch plywood.
None of that is available now.
I could probably find poplar locally at another source, but I am on a limited time frame, and this is an experiment anyway.
I will see what I can find tomorrow.
Interesting, Home Depot and Lowes around here have plenty of Poplar, Oak, Birch plywood, Oak veneer plywood, homasote sheets, etc.
All of our "real lumber yards" have these products too.
On this whole question of quality lumber, I would simply use Poplar.
It is our prefered lumber for custome door jambs, built-ins, larger traditional baseboards, etc.
And it is what I will be using for most of my benchwork along with birch plywood.
If you are trying to get as flush a fit as possible, I'd simply cut the opening to the accurate measurements of the pack, and construct a holder of sorts to bolt on the back to hold it. 4 verticals - two on top and 2 on the bottom, and then a pair of crosses across the back of the back that bolt on so you can remove the pack.
Day 6, post 2:
I guess there will ocassionally be a day where everything goes wrong.
The first project for today was to make a jig to cut out the 7 inch by 6 inch opening for the Troller power pack.
I used a router with a 5/8 bit to cut the relief at 3/8" depth. Then I switched to a 1/4" bit and cut the opening out. I went back to the 5/8" bit and routed out the corners. I went throught the edge at one point. I also found out I cut the 5/8" part to a depth of more than 1/2", oops.
It looked better from the front.
Well, the opening that I cut is too big. I thought something was wrong because I calculated that the wood would be thicker at the edge than it was. I need to figure out where I went wrong with the math.
Then... the whole thing broke at the weak spot where that knot is in the thin edge below the power pack.
Tomorrow I am going to make a trip to Home Depot and get better lumber options and rebuild the front of this segment.
There was no forward progress today.
rrinkerTroller packs always looked neat - then they kind of disappeared. Something to do with faking UL certifications I think.
I have always had excelent performace with Troller Packs. I bought their near-top-of-the-line "Twin Momentum 5" when I was in High School for me N scale layout. I found out I hate momentum, but the Troller control, and 2.5 amps per throttle were great. The Troller always had excellent slow speed starts.
Troller packs always looked neat - then they kind of disappeared. Something to do with faking UL certifications I think.
I got my saw and rip guide, now I just have to find a source of GOOD 3/4 ply to make my dimensional lumber from.
SeeYou190 Oh dear! My decision top not use premium lumber on this project is biting me. I laid out the pieces, and everything is warping terribly. My plan is to cut an opening in the fascia section for the Troller power pack that I plan to use.
Oh dear! My decision top not use premium lumber on this project is biting me. I laid out the pieces, and everything is warping terribly.
My plan is to cut an opening in the fascia section for the Troller power pack that I plan to use.
I didn't go with premium lumber at Home Depot on my last layout because I was on a tight budget, but what I did buy didn't seem to get any worse after I got home and used it. A lot of the in-store dimensional lumber at HD was pre-warped, as someone else commented, but I just picked through it for straight pieces and it seemed to stay that way. I wasn't in Florida so not sure if that is part of it.
Someone has suggested sealing the lumber with something like clear Olymic.
Speaking of Troller, many moons ago I had a dual Troller power pack but I haven't had it for many many many moons. I replaced it with a Star Tec Hogger, which is a DC power pack with a plug-in throttle on a coiled tether. I used it for testing on my last layout although I do have a Digitrax Radio Chief DCC system I plan to use unless I replace it with something else.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Mr. "eh" Wayne. Your fascia's all look like raw masonite. I complimentory fascia color would do wonders for the layout based on how Rob Spangler did his fascia.
SeeYou190I laid out the pieces, and everything is warping terribly.
Should have come to my local Home Depot, they sell it pre warped.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Day 6, Post 1:
I hope some stuff straightens out with a little bit of work. This might be a disaster.
Day 5, Post 1:
Merry Christmas!
Not much time to work on the project today. I just glued the two sections of 1 by 4 together to form the fascia front.
More will happen tomorrow.
SeeYou190Each of those boxes of imported Spanish tile weigh more than 50 pounds, so that is 300 plus pounds centered right on the weakest point in the structure.
Kevin,
That's interesting. I never thought of using 300 lbs of tiles as a base for scenery before! That will make a nice mountain!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm as bad as Wayne!
Hope you are having a Merry Christmas!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
SeeYou190...that is 300 plus pounds centered right on the weakest point in the structure....
So, Kevin, whatcha got in mind, an on-layout beer 'fridge? That benchwork oughta handle it!
Wayne
Day 4, Post 2:
I left the benchwork sitting in a stress test today. Each of those boxes of imported Spanish tile weigh more than 50 pounds, so that is 300 plus pounds centered right on the weakest point in the structure.
After six hours, it had not even deflected 1/16 of an inch. I think that is a pass.
doctorwaynewe all have our own situations with which we have to deal, and our own preferences, too,
So true.
I would love to have the organic free flowing fascia that your layout has, but my room is just too narrow. I will have a straight fascia. One compromise after another.
rrinker...fancy sliding doors...
My "fancy sliding doors" are 1/8" or 1/4" Masonite in plastic channel from Stanley Tools, and the lift-off panels are also 1/8" Masonite.
The layout support structure is mostly 2"x4"s, but there is some heavier stuff, too, all of it excess from the house build (I sorta accidentally over-ordered). Support posts are about 5' or 6' apart, while the 1"x4" open grid sections are mostly 8'-10' in length and of varying width. The upper level open grid is a combination of 1"x4" on the aisle-side and at the ends of each section, with the intermediate crossmembers and the rear longitudinal of 1"x2"s.
In most places, the open grid framework overhangs the supporting structure considerably...
...so it's easy to stand close to the layout without kicking anything if you need to reach towards the back of the layout. The partial second level does limit such access to the level below somewhat, but if I need to do anything major (I may install a few of those Rapido switch motors on turnouts near the back on the layout - the ground throws were easy to reach when it was single level), I'll simply temporarily remove the upper fascia.Since we all have our own situations with which we have to deal, and our own preferences, too, whatever way works best for each individual is probably the right choice.
That's why I am using L-girder, on my lower level. Long spans, not many legs. Lots of room for totes. EVERYTHING will be containerized and labeled. Rather than make fancy sliding foors, I will probably just use fabric of some sort, hung underneath the fascia with velcro.
Day 4, Post 1:
Not much is going to get done over the next couple of days. We have Christmas related family stuff to do.
As you can see from the picture below, underneath the layout storage was taken into consideration with this design. The distance between the legs is set at 56 inches, and the height determined so that 6 of these 27 gallon tote boxes can fit underneath each segment.
This is not as finished looking as what Doctor Wayne came up with, but when the totes are removed I have complete access to the underneath of the layout.
doctorwayneNone of this, as is evident, is furniture-grade construction. I use good-quality lumber, but not for its appearance, only for its performance.
It looks good to me and useful.
Just this afternoon I was installing wiring for a building from underneath. Imagine looking up, your bifocals sliding down your nose and two bad rotator cuffs. I'm not sure I could do that from inside your cabinetry.
However as nothing is finished, and several ongoing projects there are boxes all over my basement, with rolling stock, parts, electrical stuff, model paint and more bits and pieces. It's a mess.
My issue with L-grider is that although I planned out the track and the grades, I didn't plan at all for trackside structures. This was before the internet, so there was nobody to ask. Eventurally I figured it out with cardboard and hydrocal.
When the inspector came to check that my wiring was done properly (this was for the whole house, as at that time I was still building the house) I told him of my plan to mount receptacles on the surface of the drywall (screwed to the studs, of course) in the basement layout room, with the intention to later, when the layout was built, convert some of them to junction boxes, and then run wire from them to the receptacles mounted on the layout. He said that that was allowable, but because the cable would be surface-mounted (on the 2"x4" supports for the layout) and because the under-layout area would be used for storage, there was a chance that regular Romex could be subject to damage, and therefore I would be required to use BX (armoured flexible cable).It took me a while to get to that stage, but I did as instructed, and have four receptacles under the layout (only one is used, and that's for the layout power). Another four are surface mounted on the layout framing, just below the bottom edge of the fascia....
I agree with Sheldon, that the space beneath the layout is useful for storage. I have very little wiring under the layout, so most of it has plywood shelving about 6" above the basement floor. It's useful for storing all sorts of the stuff most of us accumulate: Christmas stuff in the summer, outdoor stuff in the winter, tools, toys, even furniture, and, of course, train stuff.In the photo above, the freight car shelves are open, with four of the layout's five staging yards above. Cars move from their box to the layout and later, from layout to box.
Most of the rest of the layout has either sliding doors or lift-off panels for access to whatever's stored there...
If I need to work under the layout, I simply empty the appropriate shelf, which puts the wiring in easy reach from the shelf, and I always have a receptacle nearby for lights and power tools.
I'm also not a fan of L-girder. I used it in one place on a former layout, a fairly long across-the-room span, but it would have been easier to build and stronger had I done it as an open grid. All of my current layout is open grid, and while much of the fascia is straight, there are curves at all of the corners, both inside-type and outside-type...
... and anywhere else they're needed, too...
Most of the track is on risers, some perhaps only an inch in height, some almost 2'...I can have all the below-the-track-scenery I want. The partial upper level is also an open grid framework, but it's topped with 5/8" plywood.Doing one level in L-girder takes up enough vertical space, but using it for an upper level would be a bit more difficult.I also used no diagonal bracing, as all of the structure supporting the open grid is secured to the wall studs with screws or lag bolts, as is the open grid. The partial upper level's grid frame is screwed to the wall studs and also to the 1 1/2" angle iron support brackets, and the brackets are all lag-bolted to the wall studs.None of this, as is evident, is furniture-grade construction. I use good-quality lumber, but not for its appearance, only for its performance.