It seems that India ink is basically lampblack mixed with water, so the alcohol is used to improve the flow. However, the alcohol evapourates faster than does water, so working time is shorter....okay, I guess, if you're in a rush, but not so good if you want a little more control over the results.
I've used both, but if using diluted acrylic paint, I always add a drop or two of dish soap - it breaks the surface tension and permits better flow and is cheaper than alcohol. It also allows for a longer drying time, which is useful when you accidentally apply too much. I usually use a brush to remove excess, but in some cases, a paper towel is better. I prefer the acrylic paint, and was somewhat disappointed by the India ink results on the larger factory...
...as it was supposed to represent a newer building. However, I've come to terms with its appearance, so no plans to redo it.
I think that the India ink might be the more useful option if you're weathering wooden structures, though, as the relatively rapid evapouration might allow for less warpage. I gave-up on modelling wood structures decades ago, as I find styrene more versatile and easier to use. The last wooden structure I built, and the only such one on my layout, is this enclosed stairway access to the scratchbuilt yard crane behind the shops at Lowbanks...
It's built from sheet basswood, milled to look like corrugated metal siding. It's based on a prototype, and was material leftover from a project in the early '70s to build a blast furnace, using blueprints of a real one.
Here's a couple photos of the never completed model...
The siding, structural steel, roof trusses and two-track skip bridge are all done in basswood. I ran out of both money and space for the model, and it was eventually scrapped.
Wayne
doctorwayne I hope that I've addressed your issues, but let me know if there's anything else. Cheers, Wayne
I hope that I've addressed your issues, but let me know if there's anything else.
Cheers,
I've heard a few expert modelers say they think the India ink technique is an old artifact from the past, not worth trying, and a thin wash made from modern black acrylic paint diluted with water is just as good. On the other hand, some modelers swear by India ink and say it's a wonderful weathering tool that can't be beat. Do you have an opinion about that?
riogrande5761 I haven't built a lot of kit buildings, but they appear to all need painted to look right, otherwise they just look like plastic - the Walthers kits I have are generally molded in the color they are supposed to be, but they just look like red or blue plastic.
I haven't built a lot of kit buildings, but they appear to all need painted to look right, otherwise they just look like plastic - the Walthers kits I have are generally molded in the color they are supposed to be, but they just look like red or blue plastic.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
richhotrain Weathering! The bane of my existence. Ugh. I would like to, I want to, yet I don't. There must be others like me out there. Rich
Weathering!
The bane of my existence. Ugh.
I would like to, I want to, yet I don't. There must be others like me out there.
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
I have never weathered anything, neither structures nor rolling stock nor locomotives in my nearly 17 years in the HO scale side of the hobby.
What if I screw it up? Can it be reversed? Of course not.
Why do guys like Wayne torment me with his beautiful photos?
7fdl Hi Wayne Do you mind if I reply to your old post.
Hi Wayne
Do you mind if I reply to your old post.
7fdl ...Do you mind if I reply to your old post.
...Do you mind if I reply to your old post.
Not at all, especially if I can answer some questions that you might have.
7fdlI was wondering if you ever experienced any of the India ink wash hurting the surface of your model when you applied it?I've heard stories of the alcohol in the India ink wash softening up the acrylic paint applied on the model and causing a soggy mess. But your end product looks great!So you must know how best how to not over-do the wash application?Or do you wipe most of the wash off with a rag quickly?
But your end product looks great!So you must know how best how to not over-do the wash application?Or do you wipe most of the wash off with a rag quickly?
If you use the 70% alcohol (or even dilute it with the addition of some water) it's not strong enough to affect paint that's dried and fully-cured (hardened). I painted the brick using Pollyscale paint (airbrushed), while the concrete colour might be Floquil or perhaps Pollyscale, too.
I prefer Pollyscale, but will use whatever seems appropriate, colour-wise (and if there's enough of it to do a large structure). While the orange colour is unaltered, the "concrete" colour was mixed - grey, with some white and yellow added, maybe some red, too. I just fiddle with it until it looks suitable to my eyes. If there's some left-over from one project, I often add to it, perhaps with some different colours, to make it just a bit different.
I'm pretty sure that this is Walthers' Red Wing Milling, another concrete structure, but in a somewhat different colour...
...and it's also part of a larger industry...
Here's another large grey-ish structure, although the colour is meant to represent ashlar stone. The scribed mortar joints are difficult to see in the photo, as would be the real ones, as they're often the same colour as the stone and usually rather narrow....
I always assemble structures, especially large ones, before painting, as it allows you to address any poorly-done joints. Doors and windows are usually airbrushed, too, but with those parts still on their sprues and masked accordingly. This allows good coverage and the masked-off gluing areas allow easy installation.
Here's a large structure with lots of window openings...
Here's a sprue of doors and windows, masked-off and with grey primer applied...
...and after being airbrushed with white paint, and the masking removed...
...ready to be cut from the sprue and installed in the structure...
To get back to the issue with the India ink, I apply it generously using a 1/2" brush, but dilute it to give the degree of dirtiness that's desired for any particular project. I also often use the brush to remove any excess ink before it dries.
doctorwayne Here, the structure originally shown has been weathered using a dilute solution of India ink in 70% alcohol, applied as a wash using a 1/2" brush... Wayne
Here, the structure originally shown has been weathered using a dilute solution of India ink in 70% alcohol, applied as a wash using a 1/2" brush...
Hi WayneDo you mind if I reply to your old post.I was wondering if you ever experienced any of the India ink wash hurting the surface of your model when you applied it?I've heard stories of the alcohol in the India ink wash softening up the acrylic paint applied on the model and causing a soggy mess.
hornblower Eastrail11 I didn't think Air Brushes would be so expensive. Yes, airbrushes can be expensive and many here will insist that you MUST pay for a top line airbrush from the very beginning. Having no experience with airbrushing at all, I did not want to spend a small fortune only to damage the airbrush because I didn't know enough about it to avoid such damage. So, I bought the Harbor Freight Tools single action airbrush ($5 on sale) and an in-line regulator to hook it up to an old portable air tank I charge with my large compressor from my auto racing days. I found this airbrush to be great for "general service" painting of rolling stock, structures and scenery. I used this airbrush for over three years until the trigger rusted out. I guess I didn't dry it out well enough after each cleaning. I replaced it with another HFT single action airbrush at the regular price ($10) and I'm still using it to spray mostly acrylics and craft paints. The important thing is to keep any airbrush as clean as possible. You will spend more time setting up, tearing down, and cleaning your airbrush than you will actually painting with it. However, the quality of the paint finish will be so much better than you can achieve with a regular brush that you'll never want to go back. While a rattle can may be more convenient, the ability to spray any color paint you can mix with the most consistent and thin finish possible makes an airbrush worth all the effort. A while after I bought the first single action airbrush, I also bought the HFT dual-action airbrush ($15 on sale). I also bought the HFT braided hose. Though I have not used the dual-action airbrush as often as the single action, I quickly found that it is much better suited to fine detail painting. The first time I tried it, I found I could sign my name in lines about 1/16" wide. I have since used it to paint rust drips and other fine detail weathering. Just be warned that it doesn't come with any disassembly instructions. Still fairly simple to figure out. Needing a more portable compressor than my garage unit, I recently bought the HFT 3 gallon "hot dog" compressor ($45 on sale). Its a little noisy but not nearly as loud as my garage unit. Otherwise, its a very nice little compressor that even comes with a quick disconnect hose attachment already installed. The 3 gallon tank means there is no pulsing of the air flow and the whole thing weighs around 20 pounds. I think I've spent around $85 total for two HFT single action and one dual-action airbrushes, a braided air hose, an in-line regulator, and the hot dog compressor. Best of all, the painting results I've achieved with this equipment has been of such good quality that I see no need to buy "better" gear. Yes, you will see reviews for these items saying they are total crap but I suspect these were written by people who think its okay to drive screws with a hammer!
Eastrail11 I didn't think Air Brushes would be so expensive.
Yes, airbrushes can be expensive and many here will insist that you MUST pay for a top line airbrush from the very beginning. Having no experience with airbrushing at all, I did not want to spend a small fortune only to damage the airbrush because I didn't know enough about it to avoid such damage. So, I bought the Harbor Freight Tools single action airbrush ($5 on sale) and an in-line regulator to hook it up to an old portable air tank I charge with my large compressor from my auto racing days. I found this airbrush to be great for "general service" painting of rolling stock, structures and scenery. I used this airbrush for over three years until the trigger rusted out. I guess I didn't dry it out well enough after each cleaning. I replaced it with another HFT single action airbrush at the regular price ($10) and I'm still using it to spray mostly acrylics and craft paints. The important thing is to keep any airbrush as clean as possible. You will spend more time setting up, tearing down, and cleaning your airbrush than you will actually painting with it. However, the quality of the paint finish will be so much better than you can achieve with a regular brush that you'll never want to go back. While a rattle can may be more convenient, the ability to spray any color paint you can mix with the most consistent and thin finish possible makes an airbrush worth all the effort.
A while after I bought the first single action airbrush, I also bought the HFT dual-action airbrush ($15 on sale). I also bought the HFT braided hose. Though I have not used the dual-action airbrush as often as the single action, I quickly found that it is much better suited to fine detail painting. The first time I tried it, I found I could sign my name in lines about 1/16" wide. I have since used it to paint rust drips and other fine detail weathering. Just be warned that it doesn't come with any disassembly instructions. Still fairly simple to figure out.
Needing a more portable compressor than my garage unit, I recently bought the HFT 3 gallon "hot dog" compressor ($45 on sale). Its a little noisy but not nearly as loud as my garage unit. Otherwise, its a very nice little compressor that even comes with a quick disconnect hose attachment already installed. The 3 gallon tank means there is no pulsing of the air flow and the whole thing weighs around 20 pounds.
I think I've spent around $85 total for two HFT single action and one dual-action airbrushes, a braided air hose, an in-line regulator, and the hot dog compressor. Best of all, the painting results I've achieved with this equipment has been of such good quality that I see no need to buy "better" gear.
Yes, you will see reviews for these items saying they are total crap but I suspect these were written by people who think its okay to drive screws with a hammer!
I would not classify myself as an Expert on airbrushing, but I have been airbrushing for many years now, and I agree with some of what you say.
I also started out with a cheapo HF airbrush, but mine was a $20.00 dual action brush. I learned a lot about using and cleaning the airbrush without the worry of destroying a $150 airbrush.
After I learned that it was never required to disassemble an airbrush every time you used it if you cleaned it immediately after spraying the paint, life became really much easier. Right now, when changing colors, I immediately spray DI water or Laquer Thinner (depending on the type of paint I was using) through the brush until it comes out clear, then continuing on with the next color. After I am finished spraying, I again immediately spray DI water or Laquer Thinner through the brush until it comes out clear, remove only the nozzle and needle, wipe them clean with a Q-Tip, dip the tip of the needle in Regdab Needle Juice (from Badger), put the nozzle and needle back in and put the brush away. I have never had to go any farther than that unless I allowed the paint to dry in the brush. You should never need to remove the trigger, clean the air ports or the adjusting mechanisms.
I then thought I would try a better airbrush, and I bought a Badger Chrome airbrush ($185.00), and WOW the difference in spray pattern control. Like night and day. Really awesome for fine detailing, but I found it was not really set up for general bulk painting of freight cars or buildings in general due to the very fine nozzles. For that, I eventually bought the Badger Patriot 105 for $80.00. That airbrush is really great for general work, not as detailed as the Chrome but far nicer than the HF.
I now have the HF brush for priming, as it throws a wide bulky not the best finish pattern that I know I will be sanding slightly anyway, a Badger Patriot 105 for bulk painting with paint (not primer) as it has a .5 mm nozzle for nice even coverage and really good control over wider areas, but not really great for fine detailing, and the Badger Chrome, which has a super fine nozzle and microscopic control for detail work. The Patriot will spray the overall box car nicely, and the Chrome will detail the rivets!
I clean these the same way as the HF brush, do not dissassemble, and do not have any problems, I just do it RIGHT AWAY.
You are right to learn on the cheap brush, but you will not regret moving up to a better brush once you have learned how to use one. Trememdous difference if the finished product. And once you start to see the results, you will find yourself using the airbrush more and more, but you will still need to use the normal paintbrush as well for washes and pastels.
PS, Sometimes I do use a screwdriver, sometimes a hammer, and on occasion, both together, but neither for painting!
- Bob
I would not ce
I accidently hit the Post button.
How do you delete a post here?
Eastrail11 Okay, so today I went to Micheals to pick up the pastels, but when I arrived, I noticed there are many types of pastels, oil, water, solid. Which type of pastel would be used to weather building, railcars, or engines. When I tried to look it up, I got even more confused! Now there are soft, hard, pencil, and oil. I have never seen anyone use pencil or hard to weather anything. ~Eastrail
Okay, so today I went to Micheals to pick up the pastels, but when I arrived, I noticed there are many types of pastels, oil, water, solid. Which type of pastel would be used to weather building, railcars, or engines. When I tried to look it up, I got even more confused! Now there are soft, hard, pencil, and oil. I have never seen anyone use pencil or hard to weather anything.
~Eastrail
If you have a pencil sharpener, the ground up waste graphite makes excellent material for streaks and stains, but needs dullcote later.
I mix my own weathering paints from orange, red, yellow, gray, brown and black and white to either lighten or darken. Mixing them on a pallett as I go tends to NOT produce two identical colors, unlike the factory-made weathering colors used straight from the bottle. Any cheap household paint will work. Of course, you can also mix the hobby weathering paints on a pallet yourself too.
- Douglas
That's a good point, Mr. Beasley, because I like to use spray cans too. If you have your model assembled and stand it up to spray it, the paint could run, or you may have trouble getting paint along the bottom edge of the walls depending on what your building is sitting on. To prevent that, I usually place the building on a small box with a wall almost flush with the edge of the box. That way you can make a few light coats and spray along the bottom edge evenly instead of trying to spray down at an angle. Then I'll turn the model and do another wall.
Jim
I don't like to glue the corners together prior to painting. I use rattle can paints, mostly, and I prefer to paint on a horizontal surface to prevent dripping. If I glue a corner, the sides will be vertical or at an angle.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Eastrail11 I'm a little confused. So your first paint it orange, but after, did you paint over it with something else, or remove some of the paint, leaving an orange tint like in the fourth picture.
In the first two photos, the structure is unpainted, while the third photo shows the areas representing brick painted orange - no masking was needed.
After that, all of the brick areas were covered with masking tape, and the structure was airbrushed with a concrete colour...the fourth photo shows that, with the masking tape still over the brick areas, and that mostly covered with the concrete colour.
The fifth picture shows the brick, with mortar applied, and the concrete...all of the painting of the basic structure is done, but the doors and windows, already painted and with their glass in place, are yet to be install. After that's done, the weathering will be added.
Perhaps I should have included the view shown below, where the painting is done, and the "mortar" application/clean-up is in progess...
...at the left edge of the photo, you can see the brick panels after the excess dried drywall mud has been removed, while the balance of the building's brick has yet to have the excess mortar removed - it is easily wiped from both the surface of the brick and from the adjacent concrete, but does mute the orange colour of the brick somewhat, yielding the finish seen in photo five. Brick comes in a wide range of colours, and much of the brick used in my hometown was very clearly orange, although all of the heavy industry there ensured that it didn't remain orange for too long.
Hope that clarifies things for you.
Here's another orange structure....
...and with the drywall mud "mortar" applied...
...here, the excess mortar has been wiped off, but the foundation and window sills have yet to be painted...
...and here it is, finished except for some signs....
doctorwayne I generally assemble the main part of a structure before any painting, as it negates the need to remove paint from gluing surfaces... I opted to paint the "brick" portions of this one first, as most of those areas were multiples of set sizes and shapes. This would allow me to apply layers of masking tape to a hard surface, then to cut multiples of the same sizes of each in a single operation. No masking was used for this first step, as the overspray will be covered by the next colour, after I've masked-over the areas of brick... In this view, the "conrete" colour has been applied, and the masking over the brick is still in place... After removing the tape, I used pre-mixed drywall mud to add "mortar" to the bricks. It was applied using a rag over my fingertips, and once dry, the excess was rubbed off using a clean rag (best done outdoors)...
I generally assemble the main part of a structure before any painting, as it negates the need to remove paint from gluing surfaces...
I opted to paint the "brick" portions of this one first, as most of those areas were multiples of set sizes and shapes. This would allow me to apply layers of masking tape to a hard surface, then to cut multiples of the same sizes of each in a single operation. No masking was used for this first step, as the overspray will be covered by the next colour, after I've masked-over the areas of brick...
In this view, the "conrete" colour has been applied, and the masking over the brick is still in place...
After removing the tape, I used pre-mixed drywall mud to add "mortar" to the bricks. It was applied using a rag over my fingertips, and once dry, the excess was rubbed off using a clean rag (best done outdoors)...
I'm a little confused. So your first paint it orange, but after, did you paint over it with something else, or remove some of the paint, leaving an orange tint like in the fourth picture.
For buildings that have molded on details and windows, like DPM kits, if you're satisfied with the look of your wood trim parts looking the same as your concrete trim parts, spray the buidling your trim color then just use a large chisel end brush to paint the brick. Then use Wayne's drywall mud technique for the mortar. Also, I wouldn't paint trim a bright color. Bright colors stand out too much and are too hard to cover up if you get them in the wrong spot, without having to use a thick blob of paint to cover the vibrant color.
For kits where all parts are on sprues, they can all be sprayed separately with different colors. You can choose to assemble the kit with painted parts, although long term adhesion might be an issue for you since the paint is keeping the adhesive from touching the plastic. Or, you can touch the surface of the piece needing glued with a light file or sandpaper to knock off some of the paint before you glue for better adhesion.
Because buildings are weathered, vibrant colors look a bit off on our layouts, IMO. Notice how the colors on Wayne's buildings, trim included, tend to be muted or even mixed with gray to give them a more faded realistic look.
For detail parts, such as doors and windows, and other trim, pre-painting while the parts are still on their sprue can save a lot of time and effort. The sprue shown below is from a different kit, with all of the parts on this one cast in dark green. The masking tape, protecting the gluing surfaces, is still in place, and a coat of grey primer has been applied to everything else...
As you can see, most of the tape is in continuous lengths, some cut-to-width, which makes for very quick masking. Here's the same sprue after a coat of white paint was applied, and the tape removed...
...the parts can now be cut from the sprue, and the window "glass" applied before the windows and doors are installed in the structure. All gluing surfaces are paint-free, making the use of solvent-type cement a snap.
Some kits, like many of those from DPM, require a different approach, as the doors, windows, and trim are all cast as part of the wall sections. For structures such as these, assemble the body of the kit following the instructions, then paint it the base colour of your choosing.This one's been airbrushed with a basic "brick" colour, and the doors, windows, and trim have been brush-painted. Use good quality brushes, sized appropriately to each task. Good brushes are not cheap, but, properly cared-for, will last a lifetime.This one has not yet had "mortar" applied...
This one, another DPM kit with a blank front wall which will never be seen once installed on the layout, has had mortar added, followed by some weathering...
...and this one, the same basic kit, likewise, although it's been painted in different colours and has a small scratchbuilt addition...
It's not uncommon for structures on the same street to be built to the same plan, but perhaps with different coloured brick or different coloured paint. Over time, owners often make their own changes, too.
This one is another basic DPM kit, assembled and painted as outlined for the brick structures above. However, since it will occupy a more prominent place on the layout, I've added a few details, using Central Valley stairways and some Evergreen strip styrene. Most of this detail was built and painted before being added to the main structure...
dknelson What I use are the sticks of soft pastels put out by Artist's Loft. Michaels craft store has this box of 36 pastel sticks and they are really cheap -- $7 or so -- per box and even cheaper with the 40% or 50% off coupon from Michaels in the Sunday newspaper. I take an old knife and rub the back of a blade againt the stick creating a powder of the slightly oily pastel color. Then I use a wedge shaped sponge that I bought a pack of cheap) at Walgrees and apply it. It applies very much like Pan Pastel and for all I know is the same stuff. I think Pan Pastels are absurdly overpriced myself but they work well I do admit. But so do the Artist's Loft sticks. I do the same to make rust spots on galvanized freight car roofs. Dave Nelson
What I use are the sticks of soft pastels put out by Artist's Loft. Michaels craft store has this box of 36 pastel sticks and they are really cheap -- $7 or so -- per box and even cheaper with the 40% or 50% off coupon from Michaels in the Sunday newspaper. I take an old knife and rub the back of a blade againt the stick creating a powder of the slightly oily pastel color. Then I use a wedge shaped sponge that I bought a pack of cheap) at Walgrees and apply it. It applies very much like Pan Pastel and for all I know is the same stuff. I think Pan Pastels are absurdly overpriced myself but they work well I do admit. But so do the Artist's Loft sticks.
I do the same to make rust spots on galvanized freight car roofs.
Dave Nelson
Dave is spot on with the craft store chalks. I use them also. They are perfect for buildings and even freight cars. I apply them as Dave describes, but then use a stiff brush that gets brushed into the cars or buildings. For large buildings, I suggest either cheap craft paint or spray paint.
~Lee
ctyclsscs Personally, I like to glue walls together before painting if they are going to be the same color. That way you don't have scrape off paint at the glue joints to get a good bond. Nor do you have to worry about any glue squeezing out of the joint and ruining your paint. Lastly, if you glue the walls together first, you can file or sand any joints if they don't quite fit together perfectly. Jim
Personally, I like to glue walls together before painting if they are going to be the same color. That way you don't have scrape off paint at the glue joints to get a good bond. Nor do you have to worry about any glue squeezing out of the joint and ruining your paint. Lastly, if you glue the walls together first, you can file or sand any joints if they don't quite fit together perfectly.
Me too, especially smaller kits like DPM or City Classics. A large kit like shown above might be tough to wrangle for painting.
I use rattle can primers and tans for brick work.
Gary
Eastrail11What are pan pastels?
The website is a little cryptic about what they are made of, but it looks like a very fine chalk to me. It is 100% dry. Here's a video using them for weathering
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Some random unconnected thoughts.
The biggest reason not to leave buildings as they come from the box is that waxy look raw plastic has. The late Art Curren almost always tried to retain the color of the original kits, but created a much more realistic tone and texture (and better base for weathering) by vigorously scrubbing the parts before assembly in hot water and Ajax cleanser. His results speak for themselves in his out of print Kalmbach book on kitbashing.
Pan Pastels are solid and slightly oily which is why they adhere so well. Indeed I have heard some people say they are nothing but overpriced shades of women's makeup which you could often get cheaper by going to a dollar store or Walgreens beauty department and just actually buying the cheapest makeup.
In certain applications I actually rub the stick itself on the model, then use the wedge shaped sponge to work the color into the model. For example when capturing the look of white paint on a freight car logo that has started to go chalky and "melt" down the side of a car, I carefully use the white pastel stick to outline the logo then use the sponge to pull the color down the side of the car.
Thanks you guys for all your answers! Would a dual-action unit be worth it for future projects? Like weathering engines and cars. (I have never used a Airbrush before)
My next question. What are pan pastels? Everyone mentions them, but when I look them up, it looks like normal water color. Is it a dry paint? what type of brush would one use?
I prefer to use Tamiya spray cans (and small bottles of the same color for touch-up). They come with a fine-spray nozzle, much better than the traditional hardware rattle cans meant to paint outdoor patio chairs and other big things. Even if I'm going to use an airbrush for a particular color I can't get from Tamiya, I'll still use their primer gray from the can.
Hello all,
Eastrail11I didn't think Air Brushes would be so expensive.
Not necessarily, check out this current thread...
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/270979.aspx
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
BigDaddy Heavy Feather here are some other takes on the Heritage Furniture building http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/202923.aspx
Heavy Feather here are some other takes on the Heritage Furniture building
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/202923.aspx
I read that thread prior to building the kit. It was my first kit, and I am happy with the way it came out. I have since ordered more details for it.
I was showing it as an example of a beginner can make a nice building with a little work. It took me literally a few minutes to build. I have spendmuch more time on the scenery around it and detailing the structure.
OP, I think you can get a similar effect with a rattle can and some pan pastels.
Hornblower