Maybe late to the party, but does it ever really end?
I hope that some of the hints here help you with your bridge install.
Its been a long time since I posted progress here but still working at it. The other end of the truss bridge no longer heads out to nowhere and I have most of the landscaping finished underneath. Here are a couple of progress pics- with links to new non-PB uploads (thanks PB ) If anyone wants to see any particular previous photos let me know.
I wasn't happy with the joint between the abutment and the stone wall so I covered the wall with ivy. I still have more landscaping to do under the bridge but put that off to some time in the future. I decided not to attach the track to the bridge. It just lies on the stringers. That way it is very easy to remove the bridge- just slide the joiners free on one end of the bridge tracks, pull the tracks loose from the joiners at the other end, and pull the bridge off.
And here is a current photo. I have been focusing on the new hillside and coal mine complex for the past year or so. You can see the truss bridge to the rear. I still have a long way to go in this area but at least all of the track is down and fully operational.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
I missed the party, HObbyguy! I like what I'm seeing here! This forum is almost 2 years old, but I still want to comment on what a great job you've done. I just purchased an Overland HO scale brass, pin-connected truss bridge today. Its a single-track model and its unpainted.
I am going to look to this forum for some instructions and inspiration. Keep up the good work!
Regards,
TractionNut
Thanks, got it. Yes, the bridges are for a much smaller scale. I am willing to view HO scale items, but the bridges clearly will not work. I am actually looking for the trusses to support an complete elevated section of my layout and the ones in the photo appeared tall enought to work in O gauge. I still can not seem to see them either on the ME of Central Valley websites.
Thanks,
Michael
Here is the Central Valley link showing their bridge girder packs. But it looks like they are also limited to HO and N scale.
http://www.cvmw.com/bridges.htm
Thanks for the suggestions re: Micro Engineering and Central Valley. I found the website for ME, and yes, the items may be too small for an O gauge layout, but I could not find the bridge supports just to be certain. I also could not find the website for Central Valley. Have the URL?
Michael, I built the bridge from a Micro Engineering kit. To be honest I don't know what is available for O-gauge. I think the ME girders would probably look small.
Yeah abutments are always the tricky part. The brass bridge is a pretty massive structure and it really calls for concrete abutments. But wood might be the ticket for a smaller bridge, especially if the bridge itself is built out of wood.
All of the landscaping and detailing work has been addictive the past couple of months. Not looking forward to constructing new benchwork, and cutting and fitting sub-roadbed again. And it definitely will slow down the pictures for a while.
Walt love all your bridges and appreciate your abutment information,very timely. I'm working on a homegrown truss bridge and I'm thinking of wood abutments, I'm not much for concrete.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
Great-looking scenes with the trees and undergrowth added, Walt, and the backdrop looks very well-suited to the three dimensional stuff.
Michael Pags....I am interested in the trestle supports shown in the first photo. I will have several elevated sections on an O gauge layout I am planning and wonder if they might work. What is the source of those supports? DIY or commercially available?
Micro Engineering and Central Valley both offer structural steel members similar to those shown in the photo.
Wayne
I am replying to the post yesterday by HObbyguy. I am interested in the trestle supports shown in the first photo. I will have several elevated sections on an O gauge layout I am planning and wonder if they might work. What is the source of those supports? DIY or commercially available?
Finally here are both bridges with trees and vegetation added. I am all out of trees to plant. I think the viaduct turned out pretty nice and the undergrowth fits the Appalachian theme. After all the effort to match the original wall color its mostly hidden by trees and ivy anyway.
And here is the truss bridge. The other end is still hanging into space, but I already cleared the area and now preparing to build the next section of benchwork. So someday it will lead somewhere.
And here is the finished scene, except for trees and shrubs. I just threw on a couple that I had lying around to get a better feel for how to dress it out.
Like I said at the very start I began this thread "just for fun". I am still a novice at railroading compared to most guys here so not qualified to do a how-to thread. But I took a lot of pictures a long the way and happy to respond to any questions.
Here is the track going around the corner from the viaduct to the truss bridge, with the cut and the tunnel entrance below. All built within the last few weeks. There is a long tree-making session in my future, but for now it is presentable.
Its been a busy few months on the railroad. I had a bunch of accumulated vacation time this year and spent most of it in the basement. Come Jan 4 and it will be back to the 50 hr per week corporate grind for the next few months. So things are going to slow down in a big way again. And still a long way to go before I am finished with construction- here is the other end of the truss bridge still heading out to nowhere.
Here is the abutment after coloring. I used a very dilute solution of soy sauce in water to tint, then finished with brown and black powders. I built the tunnel portal and surrounding rockfaces as a module on the bench and slipped the it into place. Now need to blend it all together, color the rockfaces in the front and put down ground cover. I've learned to like foam for forming the terrain because it is easy to "plant" trees and bushes. Just make a hole with an awl and plant.
The hidden track is now glued and ballasted but I still need to take care of the upper track leading to the bridge before attaching the foam permanently.
Anyway happy that the bridge abutments came out pretty close to my vision.
This stream bed is going to be a whole lot smaller thean the Cripplebush kit is designed for. Cool concept though and it would have worked nicely on the stream that I built two years ago- but that is already "water under the bridge"
I have the basic landforms shaped up to the truss bridge now so I got started on the abutment today. Here is where I started, with a 1x4 block where the abutment needs to go. My situation is a bit different than Victor's and I decided that I am going to simulate concrete poured in plywood forms, with sheer rockfaces on the sides. I am posting as I go along, whether it turns out good or bad, and if bad then we will all learn from my mistakes. In any event, between Victors write-up and mine making plaster abutments should be well covered.
I cut out "sheets of plywood" from 1/4" hobby ply using a miter saw and glued them together. The surface is very smooth but hopefully it has enough grain to give a hint of rough plyboard. Then built the mold right on top of the 1x4 and used screws into the 1/4 to hold the sides in place.
I used a little Bakers Joy on the surface as a release agent- it doesn't take much! Then filled the mold with hydrocal. I have been buying hydrocal from an ebay seller. It is very inexpensive and works well. I don't measure but find that 8 oz of water results in about 16 oz of plaster. I just mix in powder until the consistency is threatening to be a little creamy, then tap it to get the bubbles out, and pour. I use a straight-edge to shave the surface to get it nice and flat.
I wait until it is hard to make a mark in the surface with a fingernail, usually around 30 minutes. When I removed the screws and dowel pins that hold the sides in place the casting fell right out.
Did a quick cleanup of my tools and reassembled the mold, ready for the next pour.
As far as texture goes I won't be able to tell how good it turned out until the casting cures fully and I hit it with washes and weathering, but I can clearly see the subtle grain and the board parting lines which is a good sign.
So far, so good. I am already working on the rockfaces that go on either side of the portal and the abutment but they won't stay in place by themselves so pictures will have to wait. Then on to the stream bed and plate bridge. I am not going to glue the track down and ballast, or do any finishing work on the landscape in this area until all the foam is carved and plaster pieces are fitted. The pink stuff gets everywhere!
HObbyguyMaybe you guys can help me out with how to model a streambed that is mostly flat rock slabs with very little water?
Hi, Walt
I bought one of these some years ago and have not gotten that far with the scenery... just yet.
http://www.cripplebush.net/stream-bed/stream-bed_category.htm
I have used other "rubber rocks" from Cripplebush and I'm quite pleased with them. They cost a bit more and I only use them in special situations where I needed clearance or flexibility.
The stream bed might be a good way for you to get the initial scene started then work from there.
I have also used 12" square slate tiles from a home supply center and smashed them up with a 2 pound hammer. Put the slate into plastic bags and smash away. Then screen the results and you have lots of sizes of slate that can be glued in place.
Hope that helps, Ed
Since I am just now getting started on tunnel portals I did a web search to find photos and came across this one, which is exactly the sort of "feel" I want for the little plate bridge scene. Out of a tunnel, across the bridge over a small stream and then back into a mountain.
Maybe you guys can help me out with how to model a streambed that is mostly flat rock slabs with very little water? No problem using Envirotex for the water but not sure how to make flat slabs for the stream bed that look believable. Thinking of just pouring some plaster into a thin sheet on wax paper, breaking it up into small pieces and blending it into the stream bed flat side up?
Great job on some nicely detailed how to information.
Thanks for letting me share your work Victor. It is very relevant to the topic. Using pre-formed castings is easy but only if they fit the plan. You mentioned that nobody is making abutments that are wide enough for the Overland bridge. I looked for a while too and came up empty so this is one of those situations.
I spent all day yesterday cutting and fitting foam. You can see the end of the new viaduct to the right and where one of the abutments for the truss bridge will go to the left. I finished shaping the terrain and base landscaping in the corner to help give me a reference for how the terrain in the area should flow. There is a tunnel going under the approach to the truss bridge and making lift-out out sections for access in case I have any problems with the track there is adding to the fun.
I plan to finish shaping all the basic terrain in this area before deciding exactly how to form the bridge abutments and bring it all together. As you can see I have a lot of things going on in a very small area so it will be tricky to get it "right". But I have a lot of time off the job right now and making use of it to get this section of the layout to a point where I can get all the track permanently laid down.
Thanks for posting this Walt. As I stated before, I can not get the insert with the Rich Text Editor to post my photos. Hopefully, someone here will learn something about using this tecnique or provide some more input. And I look forward to seeing your progress.
Victor A. Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana
Back to topic. Victor (Wabash2800) sent me a very detailed write-up with some great pictures on how he made the bridge abutments for his truss bridge. I have been using very similar methods with good success although these will be the biggest castings that I've done so far using wood molds. And the shape will be a bit different, customized to my particular situation. I asked Victor if it would be OK to share, and here it is...
"This was my first attempt at using molds, but I was more than satisfied with the finished product, so I thought I'd share my techniques with you. I made these for a large brass bridge and no commercial abutments were big enough to fit that bridge. The same techniques could be used for piers.
There may be more text here than you care to read in one sitting, so perhaps you can print this off for further reference.
I poured my abutments out of Hydrocal which is like a plaster. My abutments have angles and a kind of “step” on them for the large bridge shoes and portals. I also built my mold out of individual boards to simulate the exterior surface when the prototype used to do it this way. So in a sense, I did it like the prototype! If you have wings, it may be a good idea to cast those separately. Not shown yet is a small piece I molded to fit under the track at the very top and front of the abutment. I will glue those pieces on with yellow glue. White or yellow glue works fine for gluing pieces together or repair.
First, you'll have to determine the dimensions. On my bridge abutments the distance from the step to the top of the abutment is critical. If you use commercial Micro Engineering flex track, for example, you want to get the track to connect on the level with your other track and roadbed on the layout without a lot of fuss. Yes, you can sand the abutment, add plaster, shims or spackling on the step, top or bottom side, but why not get it right the first time? After all, you're making something custom for your bridge.
Note my dimensional jig photo. The jig is nothing more than a mock-up. This jig is so simple it stinks, but it can save you a lot of headache later. It's made from two scrap pieces of wood and I used a C clamp to adjust my "shelf". Make two of these and set them on your workbench or layout and position your bridge with bridge shoes, adjusting the shelf until your bridge track and your other track and roadbed are at the right height. This will allow you to get the step height correct and give you an idea of the other dimensions. Yes, you could just measure things without the jig but the rail to floor deck, bridge tie thickness, regular tie thickness, portal arrangement, roadbed thickness etc. can through you off.
Now that you've determined the dimensions, it's time to make the mold. Again, my mold was made from individual strips of wood, (Basswood), because I wanted to simulate the detail of a prototype mold made from individual planking. (I used sheet stock for the back and top where the detail wasn't necessary.)
You might make yours out of sheets of wood altogether or even plastic. It is my understanding that more modern techniques used by the prototype didn't use individual boards. And if yours is just a slab, you could just make an open top mold. Do your research and consult photos for your model.
I think if I were making more than a couple of bridge abutments of the same design, I'd use styrene but sand some grain in it first. (The basswood form took quite a beating from the two pourings and ended up being scrapped when I was done.) Or perhaps I'd seal the wood with wax, for example. I thought of that but was afraid of losing the detail. But it worked fine for just the two pourings. The glue could have a tendency to come undone after so many pourings too. Maybe CAA would be the answer? Perhaps some of you can provide some input here from you experience?
Another alternative would be to make one plaster prototype and then use It to make rubber mold to reproduce from your one original. This would be especially attractive if you are making a number of piers, for example, or making duplicates for your friends or customers.
Remember making balsa wood airplanes? The next step is almost like that. I drew out my diagram to scale, covered it with wax paper and pinned and glued my parts together.
I don't have a model makers saw so I had to come up with a way to cut identical pieces efficiently for the angled corners at the same angle and length. So I made my own custom miter jig.
This kind of miter jig is handy for cutting bridge trusses to identical length and angles on the ends! It can also come in handy for those odd angles that aren't available in standard miter boxes. It's custom like the mold but quick and easy to build. The jig is nothing more than a few pieces of wood glued together with an angle cut in it for the saw with spacers so you can slide your stock in the slot. Note that when making my parts, I made two cuts and used a stick to push my finished piece out and so on. It's repetitive and fast. But it will wear out, but hopefully last for whatever project you're working on.
For the straight pieces I just used the Northwest Short Line Chopper and its stop to duplicate the lengths and get a square cut. The backside and shelf of the mold were made with Basswood sheet stock. (The dimensions for the sheet stock weren't critical as they overlap the edges.) After the individual boards were glued together for the sides, angles and front, I test fitted things together, again using my drawn lines on the template. Then I drilled holes with a pin vise with the drill bit slightly smaller than the Atlas track nails I used. And lastly, I pinned the assembly together by lightly hammering the Atlas track nails in. I felt that I needed to pull my mold apart and pin it back together for the second pouring. I was afraid that with the step in it, I might not be able to get the finished product out without breaking the mold or abutment. With some smaller molds and simple shapes, you might be able to just glue the mold in one piece and tap the finished product out.
So you think you're ready to mix the plaster and pour? Well first of all, we need to seal the mold. Even if you did a great job of making the mold and it pinned together nicely, the Hydrocal is going to try to find any place it can leak out. And if your cabinet making wasn't as superb as you wanted, this might cover your sins. So what I use is a product called "Seal and Peal" that is used with a caulking gun. It is used to winterize doors and windows and dries to a clear rubbery consistency but will peal off. It does smell toxic when applied so I recommend you do it in a well ventilated area or outside.
The second thing we need to do is add a mold release. I tried the real thing but the best I've found is Pam cooking oil in a spray can. Spray it in your mold. Turn your mold upside down to let the excess drip out and then wipe a little with paper towel. The idea is to have just enough to act as a mold release but not hide our detail or accumulate in a puddle. I actually let the mold sit a while so the mold release can have enough time to soak into the wood. And I added another application and cleaned off the excess etc. Maybe I'm all wet on this (pun intended) but it seemed to work for me.
For our application the Hydrocal is usually mixed to a 10 part powder to 7 or 8 parts water. Refer to your instructions. Also, this stuff has a shelf life. I ordered mine in a sealed plastic tub on the Internet. If you buy it at a hobby shop for modeling it's hard telling how long it's been sitting around. You might be taking a chance that it won't set right for you.
Now, if you've never done anything like this, the next part is very important!
SPRINKLE THE POWDER INTO THE WATER SLOWLY.
DO NOT POUR THE WATER INTO THE POWDER!
ALSO, DON'T POUR ANY DOWN THE DRAIN! IT'LL STOP YOUR PIPES UP.
I placed my mold in a bucket so I could prop it up to level it and to avoid any mess. When I had the soupy mixture I wanted, I poured it in and made sure the mold was level. You can tell if it is level or not when the mix settles at the top. Let it settle and add if necessary. I really didn't have much shrinkage at the top on mine. After pouring the Hydrocal in the mold, tap the mold to get any air bubbles to come up.
Now, let the Hydrocal set for two hours.
Ok, now that you've left the mold set for two hours, it's time to gleefully see what our end product looks like. In my case, I removed the pins and gently pulled my mold apart. Wallah! For something much smaller and less intricate without pins, you might just tap it out and try a little gentle flexing if necessary.
You can sand and carve it any time but it's easier the greener it is. I weathered mine with some gouges and sanding to show where the concrete had aged and broken off over time. Perhaps I overdid it?
I used an old modeling trick that I think works quite well to get the concrete color. I used soy sauce. Yes, soy sauce. I didn't go out and buy a bottle from the grocery store; I used the little packets from the local Chinese restaurant. You can dilute to whatever hue you want but test it on the back side first. I diluted it in a container about the size of a shot glass. I didn't want it too yellow, but I wanted it to have tint in it. (If you over do it, it'll be brown in color.) Again, test it first on the back side or the bottom of your abutment. I used a small wad of paper towel to do my staining.
Next, I used India ink to weather over that. One drop goes a long way, so I actually put one drop into a regular sized glass. You should test that too on the back side or bottom. I streak it up and down but not overly so. I just wanted a coat of filth to tone it down and make it less uniform but very subtle on the streaks.
I brushed on streaks of chalk to represent rust coming off the bridge, especially around the bridge shoes. I used two different shades of chalk, one that was kind of orange and one that was brown. I blended them together and streaked them down the side of the abutment. I also let the lighter color stand out in some areas and the same with the brown. I think that is the way it in nature, there's usually more than one shade especially when it come to weathering. (I actually may go back and work on the rust a little more.) Study photos and you'll get the idea. The Hydrocal is porous so I'm told there is no need to spray a clear dull coat on to protect the finish."
I'll take some detailed photos and post them when I get going on mine.
Since this is all about bridges,
I built the trestle even though I was not sure any were still in use in the eastern US during the transition period. But my railroad is freelance, and I like trestles so I went with it. Anyway, I was out playing golf today and took these pics looking into the woods at the edge of the golf course.
It looks to be in very good shape, and I could see rails on the track leading up to it with pretty nice ballast, not overgrown. I would not be surprised to find out that the trestle was actually still being used sometime in the relatively recent past.
The cool part is that construction is very similar to the way I built mine, with bents built from very heavy square lumber, same sort of cross bracing, similar color, etc. I wonder if there is a way to get over there to take a really good look?
The golf course is in North Augusta, SC just a few miles away from home.
Edit- I got curious and did a search on the web. That wood trestle connects to a drawbridge over the Savannah River that was built in 1912 by the Southern Railroad, so the line is over 100 years old. And it is still in use by the Norfolk Southern.
HObbyguy rrebell When I did my tall steel trestle I built the thing and then I cut the plaster piers to aprox. size and put them up to the bents with shims under them to the foam base and filled in over the shims with plaster to match the plaster cloth that I used as a top coat over the foam, no muss no fuss. That's more or less what I did, except this time I used Sculptamold underneath and on top of the shims instead of plaster. The Sculptamold worked really well. I used enough to set the piers a little high, then set the bridge in place which pushed them down into the Sculptamold a bit. I made some minor adjustments to level and center them and let it dry. The Sculptamold is nice and gooey and has a long working time so it was easy to get them all set correctly. When I built the wood trestle I marked the position of every leg and made wooden "pilings" to support them, and glued the pilings into holes in the foam at the proper height for each leg. It made the bridge removable and very solidly supported, but what a huge pain. Way too many legs to deal with at once. Might as well throw this one in too- its the last bridge in my plan. A very simple ME kit that I built in one night last weekend and then airbrushed with gloss black the next day. I haven't decided on weathering yet- depends on how it looks once the terrain and landscaping are finished and I see how it looks against the backdrop. I've got a bunch of foam carving to do but been distracted the past few days nursing a sick Alco engine back to health.
rrebell When I did my tall steel trestle I built the thing and then I cut the plaster piers to aprox. size and put them up to the bents with shims under them to the foam base and filled in over the shims with plaster to match the plaster cloth that I used as a top coat over the foam, no muss no fuss.
That's more or less what I did, except this time I used Sculptamold underneath and on top of the shims instead of plaster. The Sculptamold worked really well. I used enough to set the piers a little high, then set the bridge in place which pushed them down into the Sculptamold a bit. I made some minor adjustments to level and center them and let it dry. The Sculptamold is nice and gooey and has a long working time so it was easy to get them all set correctly.
When I built the wood trestle I marked the position of every leg and made wooden "pilings" to support them, and glued the pilings into holes in the foam at the proper height for each leg. It made the bridge removable and very solidly supported, but what a huge pain. Way too many legs to deal with at once.
Might as well throw this one in too- its the last bridge in my plan. A very simple ME kit that I built in one night last weekend and then airbrushed with gloss black the next day. I haven't decided on weathering yet- depends on how it looks once the terrain and landscaping are finished and I see how it looks against the backdrop. I've got a bunch of foam carving to do but been distracted the past few days nursing a sick Alco engine back to health.
Victor,
I'll try making the links "clickable" here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2044675.aspx
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2044670.aspx
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2044677.aspx
I hope it works... Ed
It' sad that I can't share my techinques with others but perhaps you can send me a private message on this site and I'll make contact with you and send you the photos and a write-up. I am very happy with the results.
Hmm, I can embed photos posted on other sites like photobucket and even video from youtube with the editor that comes up here. Not sure how to fix your editor problem but I'd like to see what you did with the abutments. Can you post a cut and paste link like you did for the photos?
Thanks for making one of the links work. I'd like to share photos of how I made my abutments for my version of the Overland bridge. Though I have my photos on photobucket, I don't get the richtext editing function as an option here at Model Railroader to upload them. I don't know why.
Here it is Victor. Had to mess around a bunch to get it to show up on the thread- I found out that for some reason links to photos within this site don't work.
Very cool to find someone else with the same bridge. Overland didn't make many of this model and that was quite a few years back now. A different look for sure with the black color and heavily weathered ties. And a ton of detail on your trackwork.
The abutments for my truss bridge will be plaster but I haven't decided yet whether they will be cut rock face or concrete. I'll be carving foam in the area during the next few weeks and decide as it all comes together.
I suppose you have to copy and paste the links into your browser.
rrebellWhen I did my tall steel trestle I built the thing and then I cut the plaster piers to aprox. size and put them up to the bents with shims under them to the foam base and filled in over the shims with plaster to match the plaster cloth that I used as a top coat over the foam, no muss no fuss.