I have been thinking a lot about back drops lately. The one that I have at the moment is a mountain scene that I made with trees, rocks, etc, up to the ceiling. That works for the Blue Ridge Mountain section, but now the mainline pushes into a railyard with a small town in the backgound and later into other mountain regions with small towns and or industry. I am a deceit painter (read not great). Was thinking of something like Sceneking or other products. What do you do? Show me some examples please.
Craig North Carolina
Craig,
Is it possible for, You to show a picture,of what area you have now,that you would like the backdrop? That would really help a lot also..
Cheers,
Frank
I think that everyone should have a back drop for their layouts.
I have seen local layouts that have the walls in the room, or garage area containing the layout painted a light blue and buildings and trees placed in front to form the finished backdrop.
These backdrops vary from poor quality , almost abstract painting by the most amateur of artists (I would opt to have nothing rather than one of these backgrounds) to a sort of paint by number hazy background (better than nothing I guess). to very professional, almost the quality of a professional artists or commercial photographer. Checking prices of professional backdrops that reach 20' and wider backdrops do get quite expensive.
I grew tired of having to use photo shop to add a backdrop to my pictures to blot out the background which shows residential furniture and hallways. It was definitely a chore to try taking pictures withought a proper finished HO backdrop.
In my situation I have just purchased a finished backdrop which is 24" high and 20' wide, it is a highly detailed photographed backdop of steep hills with trees graduating to farmers fields.
Now to determine the best material to mount the backdrop is my next move before setting up this backdrop.
I wonder how many members have backdrops on thier layouts and what the quality if these backdrops is..
The reasoning,behind my question was,will the new backdrop somehow tie into the existing mountain,scenery, ..or a completely different scene all together.. Sounds like some depth perception,will be needed,for you mention,towns and other mountains..
don7 These backdrops vary from poor quality , almost abstract painting by the most amateur of artists (I would opt to have nothing rather than one of these backgrounds) to a sort of paint by number hazy background (better than nothing I guess). to very professional, almost the quality of a professional artists or commercial photographer. Checking prices of professional backdrops that reach 20' and wider backdrops do get quite expensive. I grew tired of having to use photo shop to add a backdrop to my pictures to blot out the background which shows residential furniture and hallways. It was definitely a chore to try taking pictures withought a proper finished HO backdrop. In my situation I have just purchased a finished backdrop which is 24" high and 20' wide, it is a highly detailed photographed backdop of steep hills with trees graduating to farmers fields.
Don, I am interested in your comments because I am in the midst of developing a new backdrop for my large downtown passenger station. I want to have a backdrop that accurately depicts the downtown Chicago skyline in the late 50's / early 60's. None of the commercially available backdrops will do because none of them look like downtown Chicago in the late 50's / early 60's.
I had thought about trying to paint it myself from available photos, so your remarks about poor quality , almost abstract painting by the most amateur of artists greatly amuse me. So true.
Can you share with us the cost of your purchase of a finished backdrop which is 24" high and 20' wide?
I am contemplating a back drop that would be 24" high and 7' wide based upon a photo of Dearborn Station with the Chicago skyline beyond. But, I am worried about the cost if I take it to a professional printer.
Rich
Alton Junction
Coved Masonite corner, blue wall paint, stencil spray clouds, brush painted trees.
I generally paint sky, clouds, landforms, water features etc. Sometimes have painted buildings etc. but not quite so successfully.
More often I "construct" or draw structures in Photoshop, or use found art and photographs, cut out and glue to painted background. Imperial Sugar and the two warehouses were drawn in Photoshop, the harbor unloader visible over the roof of a warehouse is from a published advertisement. The end-on views of railcars near warehouses are my digital photos of model railrcars glued into the scene. I do need to do some more blending with the ship photo at far left. I think for ships, I will use photos EXCEPT for the masts and lines and ropes, etc and draw them on BG.
Here is an example of drawing finer elements. The high-tension towers were drawn in Sharpie fine-point marker using a straight-edge to follow light pencil guidelines from a stencil. I made a bow from wood lath for the arcs of hanging wire, to guide drawing with a drawing pencil.
I shot digital photos of three pieces of painted PVC tubing and printed out enough to make a BG row. (Unfinished. Top gallery detail to be added later..)
The background silos were printed out at about 95% the size of the modeled silos to give them a slight distance.
Snapshot of shrimpboats at Fulton, Texas taken as a research reference.
Same photo printed out, stock image of tank printed stepped in 3 sizes, stock image of blue warehouse with white roof printed out at right, internet image of seafood restaurant modified in Photoshop to make GHOTI. Mocked up shrimpboat harbor scene with unfinished models in front of background.
GHOTI by the way is G-H as pronounced in the word "tough", O as the O in "women," and "T-I" as in "motion."
I guess you could saw my backgrounds are thoroughly mixed media.
AikidomasterWhat do you do? Show me some examples please.
I paint mine based on prototype photos.
Most of my backdrop buildings are indistinct, but some are more detailed.
This building...
...and these are representative of those intended to be "closer" to the viewer. I try to use simple color patterns and shapes that will be harmonious with the foreground but not attract too much attention.
Rob Spangler
I do backdrops with different technique depending on the scene. The tendency has been towards simpler backdrops, but that's in part because I did the most critical and complex one first, for Silverton.
The last of the above pics shows a different angle of the coved corner than the second one does. The mountain to the left of the river is mostly 3-D, but part of the left side is painted in. This has been an effective technique I've used several other places.
Here are a few pics showing how something that looks complex is actually painted in stages.
I used the Greg Grey (of St. Louis, he's done many murals there and elsewhere) Green Frog backdrop painting video as guidance. I actually still need to go over them again to put in all the detail he shows you how to do, but just haven't gotten around to it after 15 years. Some places get just blue paint, like above Red Mountain, which is tucked under those artistically hard to manage stairs. This coved area was intended at one time to be painted as the view looking west from Durango. I may still do that, but for now it's mostly blue. I did paint in some simple low relief hills near the bottom. Here is another place where I combined 3-D hills with painted background hills. These are very easy to do, just adjust the colors for the scene you're trying to depict. In the middle of this scene to the left of the Gold Prince Mill there are some pics I printed at home from this area around Animas Forks. It blends in so well here because I matched colors closely you really can't make it out in the pic, but it's behind the small worker's cabins. So don't just consider the backdrop you want, but the coloring of your 3-D scenery to make things easier if you struggle with the art stuff like I do. These next two shows ones I did recently on aluminum flashing , cheap and easy to get at the big box. All that's done is to take a good quality primer (I used Zinser Bullseye 123) to prime it, then Krylon Satin Island Splash spray paint for the sky blue, just sorta waved around drunkenly (no actual alcohol needed if you watch Bobby Moynihan's Drunk Uncle technique on SNL). The second one even had to be "unfurled" from both ends because the far corner can't really be reached. Some of my backdrops aren't even on the backdrop and they're real easy. Just mountains hacked out of styrofoam stood on its side, then painted. The first pic shows one tilted forward for a better look at how the cuts are made and how I bonded two sheets of "mountains" together for a better 3-D effect. The second pic shows some of the "Sandy Lion" evergreen tree stickers attached. I've used these at a lot of spots to help blend the horizon line. They were available at Hobby Lobby and I found some more on Amazon, but they may be discontinued. Find them mfg's website and inquire with them if that's so if you need some. They work great and could sell a ton of these to model rails. Hard to see here, but there is a line of tree stickers that is behind the row of trees on top of the hill. Here they blend in as the terrain drops to the river in the background. Again, they work best by not really being seen. Hope this helps. There's a bunch more pics that may be helpful in my Cascade Branch thread: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/219241.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1 The track crew is calling for me...
I used the Greg Grey (of St. Louis, he's done many murals there and elsewhere) Green Frog backdrop painting video as guidance. I actually still need to go over them again to put in all the detail he shows you how to do, but just haven't gotten around to it after 15 years.
Some places get just blue paint, like above Red Mountain, which is tucked under those artistically hard to manage stairs.
This coved area was intended at one time to be painted as the view looking west from Durango. I may still do that, but for now it's mostly blue. I did paint in some simple low relief hills near the bottom.
Here is another place where I combined 3-D hills with painted background hills. These are very easy to do, just adjust the colors for the scene you're trying to depict. In the middle of this scene to the left of the Gold Prince Mill there are some pics I printed at home from this area around Animas Forks. It blends in so well here because I matched colors closely you really can't make it out in the pic, but it's behind the small worker's cabins. So don't just consider the backdrop you want, but the coloring of your 3-D scenery to make things easier if you struggle with the art stuff like I do. These next two shows ones I did recently on aluminum flashing , cheap and easy to get at the big box. All that's done is to take a good quality primer (I used Zinser Bullseye 123) to prime it, then Krylon Satin Island Splash spray paint for the sky blue, just sorta waved around drunkenly (no actual alcohol needed if you watch Bobby Moynihan's Drunk Uncle technique on SNL). The second one even had to be "unfurled" from both ends because the far corner can't really be reached. Some of my backdrops aren't even on the backdrop and they're real easy. Just mountains hacked out of styrofoam stood on its side, then painted. The first pic shows one tilted forward for a better look at how the cuts are made and how I bonded two sheets of "mountains" together for a better 3-D effect.
Here is another place where I combined 3-D hills with painted background hills. These are very easy to do, just adjust the colors for the scene you're trying to depict.
In the middle of this scene to the left of the Gold Prince Mill there are some pics I printed at home from this area around Animas Forks. It blends in so well here because I matched colors closely you really can't make it out in the pic, but it's behind the small worker's cabins. So don't just consider the backdrop you want, but the coloring of your 3-D scenery to make things easier if you struggle with the art stuff like I do.
These next two shows ones I did recently on aluminum flashing , cheap and easy to get at the big box. All that's done is to take a good quality primer (I used Zinser Bullseye 123) to prime it, then Krylon Satin Island Splash spray paint for the sky blue, just sorta waved around drunkenly (no actual alcohol needed if you watch Bobby Moynihan's Drunk Uncle technique on SNL). The second one even had to be "unfurled" from both ends because the far corner can't really be reached.
Some of my backdrops aren't even on the backdrop and they're real easy. Just mountains hacked out of styrofoam stood on its side, then painted. The first pic shows one tilted forward for a better look at how the cuts are made and how I bonded two sheets of "mountains" together for a better 3-D effect.
The second pic shows some of the "Sandy Lion" evergreen tree stickers attached. I've used these at a lot of spots to help blend the horizon line. They were available at Hobby Lobby and I found some more on Amazon, but they may be discontinued. Find them mfg's website and inquire with them if that's so if you need some. They work great and could sell a ton of these to model rails. Hard to see here, but there is a line of tree stickers that is behind the row of trees on top of the hill. Here they blend in as the terrain drops to the river in the background. Again, they work best by not really being seen. Hope this helps. There's a bunch more pics that may be helpful in my Cascade Branch thread: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/219241.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1 The track crew is calling for me...
The second pic shows some of the "Sandy Lion" evergreen tree stickers attached.
I've used these at a lot of spots to help blend the horizon line. They were available at Hobby Lobby and I found some more on Amazon, but they may be discontinued. Find them mfg's website and inquire with them if that's so if you need some. They work great and could sell a ton of these to model rails. Hard to see here, but there is a line of tree stickers that is behind the row of trees on top of the hill. Here they blend in as the terrain drops to the river in the background. Again, they work best by not really being seen. Hope this helps. There's a bunch more pics that may be helpful in my Cascade Branch thread: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/219241.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1 The track crew is calling for me...
I've used these at a lot of spots to help blend the horizon line. They were available at Hobby Lobby and I found some more on Amazon, but they may be discontinued. Find them mfg's website and inquire with them if that's so if you need some. They work great and could sell a ton of these to model rails.
Hard to see here, but there is a line of tree stickers that is behind the row of trees on top of the hill.
Here they blend in as the terrain drops to the river in the background. Again, they work best by not really being seen.
Hope this helps. There's a bunch more pics that may be helpful in my Cascade Branch thread: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/219241.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1 The track crew is calling for me...
Hope this helps. There's a bunch more pics that may be helpful in my Cascade Branch thread:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/219241.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1
The track crew is calling for me...
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
don7 In my situation I have just purchased a finished backdrop which is 24" high and 20' wide, it is a highly detailed photographed backdop of steep hills with trees graduating to farmers fields.
Don,
This sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. Could you share the name of the manufacturer or provide a link?
- Douglas
Here is backdrop of LION
LION standed on platform, took many pictures of Brooklyn skyline, knit them together and then printed a backdrop. Here is pictures of Brooklyn tooken by LION:
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
For City Backdrops I would recomend
http://backdropwarehouse.com/TnCommCitiesGrp.htm
For Hills and Mountains backdrops I would suggest
http://www.backdropjunction.com/thebackdrops/miscscenes.html
Don, can you share with us the cost of your purchase of a finished backdrop which is 24" high and 20' wide?
well Im not don7 , but going on the posted prices of the backdrop junction site he posted and the square footage of a 20' X 2' =40sq.ft @ 7.00 per for vinyl/ non adheisive ,this would be my choice for possible reuse, that comes to about 280.00 minus 10% disc. = 250.00 American dollars + - some change .
but if you have o talent or interest in painting or playing with photo /print programs or are short on time ,this would be a option that I would look at. they look nice ,,JW
Considering my time and the amount of supplies invested in my Silverton mural, that sounds like a very reasonable price. I'm still using the leftover paint, but I probably spent $250 buying it all. I can't recall the hours exactly, but I'd guesstimate between 20 and 40 hours total.
Hi, I paid around $270.00 for the backdrop. I went to a sign painter who will cut me a special paper/vinyl backboard to mount the backdrop on.
Check out the custom order section, some great backdrops here
http://www.backdropjunction.com/customorders.html
Yep, money well spent. If you're modeling a prototype, there is nothing that says "You're there!" than a realistic backdrop that is easily identifiable. When I did my mural, the cost for a printed photographic mural was somewhat steeper and the technology more limited. Now it's a great investment in setting the scene on your layout.
I actually did it thinking, "If it's a kludge, I'll just bite the bullet and go to a photo one." It's grown on my over the years. Changing to a photo backdrop would make the transition to 3-D scenery at both ends somewhat different. But I doubt I'll ever get an urge to change things now.
don7 Hi, I paid around $270.00 for the backdrop. I went to a sign painter who will cut me a special paper/vinyl backboard to mount the backdrop on. Check out the custom order section, some great backdrops here http://www.backdropjunction.com/customorders.html
I'm thinking that gluing a 2 x 20 foot backdrop on something like tempered hardboard would make it difficult to reuse on another layout. I'm wondering what would be the best way to attach the vinyl backdrop to a stiff backboard so it won't sag or wrinkle, but yet still remain portable
Is that what your special backing is meant to do, allow you to remove the backdrop without tearing it up?
Doughless,
If I wanted to make it easy to reuse, I'd find some aluminum flashing that wide and use it. 2' is pretty wide, but I think is available if you look around. Then all you need to do is roll it up and take with.
In fact, if you could get it a little wider, say 26" or 27", then you could position the 24" image at the bottom and leave a strip at the top to use to attach it, then cover with molding to make it look finished. For the Cascade Branch backdrops, I just drilled small holes at the top and use nails to tack it up. A decent staple gun could also work, so you don't need that strip at the top, but it'll save punching holes directly into your beautiful new backdrop.
That's a great idea Mike. Yes, for the price of the backdrop, I would want to last a long time, from layout to layout if need be. We take care in moving our items like turnouts and some structures from layout to layout, so I would think putting a little effort into making one of these highly detailed, somewhat pricey, backdrops portable would be time well spent.
Exactly, I want to be able to remove the background without damaging it in the advent that I may rebuild my layout, should I decide to.
The backing material is stiff enough that it will not curl, I only need to tack it every few feet to keep it in place.
don7 I went to a sign painter who will cut me a special paper/vinyl backboard to mount the backdrop on.
Some really well-done backdrops posted here. But I don't have the artistic talent or time to do such a huge mural. So also plan on purchasing a backdrop and will place an order within the next few weeks.
I am very curious to know more about the paper/vinyl backboard that you got. Could you provide a description or trade-name that I could take to a local sign shop? To me the ideal material would be thin but heavy enough to stabilize the backdrop and prevent wrinkles, and also easier to work with than something like masenite. Will the material roll up easily for transport or will it have to be joined in sections? I am planning for a 36" backdrop around 3 walls so the expense of the backboard is also a bit of a factor.
For various reasons building a support frame is not an option for me, and there are also issues with attaching the backdrop directly to the existing walls.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
HObbyguy I am planning for a 36" backdrop around 3 walls so the expense of the backboard is also a bit of a factor. For various reasons building a support frame is not an option for me, and there are also issues with attaching the backdrop directly to the existing walls.
I am planning for a 36" backdrop around 3 walls so the expense of the backboard is also a bit of a factor.
If building a support frame is not an option for you, and if there are also issues with attaching the backdrop directly to the existing walls, haven't you run out of options. How are you going to mount the backdrop?
Also, when you mentioned the 36" backdrop, I assume you are referring to the height. If so, do you really need to cover all 36" with the background scene. Since much of it will likely be sky, why not order a shorter backdrop, then computer match the color of the sky and paint it in.
I used Masonite for my back drops, I found it to work well. My back drops are 2 feet tall, so a 4X8 sheet yields 16 linear feet of back drop. This material easily bent to the radius' I needed. I found it to be excellent for the use I put it too!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
There are always options, just some better than others.
I am building the RR at the end of a finished basement in an older home and I've got three walls to work with. One is conventional wallboard that I would rather not mess up. The other two are old-style paneling. The paneling is mounted up against the block foundation with a layer of fiber insulation in-between. I never have figured out how the paneling is actually mounted- it is reasonably flat but I've never located any studs behind it and the seams are not perfectly matched. Something really needs to go over it to keep the backdrop flat.
Spacing across the width of the room is pretty critical, and taking up a couple of inches with backdrop frames on both sides would create some hassles.
I have some pretty big elevation changes in the layout design. I plan on ordering from backdropwarehouse.com and there is very little difference in cost for 24" and 36" with their pricing structure, so no real downside to going with the taller backdrop.
Yes, hanging masenite is one of the options. Just that it is heavy so needs to be well supported, and attaching it to the paneling would be a bit of a challenge since I can't find any studs.
NP2626 I used Masonite for my back drops, I found it to work well. My back drops are 2 feet tall, so a 4X8 sheet yields 16 linear feet of back drop. This material easily bent to the radius' I needed. I found it to be excellent for the use I put it too!
Mark, which thickness? 1/8 inch?
HObbyguy There are always options, just some better than others. I am building the RR at the end of a finished basement in an older home and I've got three walls to work with...
I am building the RR at the end of a finished basement in an older home and I've got three walls to work with...
This is very similar to the situation with my backdrops. That's why with the latest ones on the Cascade Branch I went with aluminum flashing. I only need to fasten it right at the top and the flashing just hangs there quite nicely. Usually there's at least a footer board place on top of basement foundations that the joists for the first floor sit on, so there's almost always something solid there that's not concrete to fasten to, no matter what went over it.
The earlier work in the main layout room was either on the dividing stud-and-drywall or on the outside walls of the basement. For those, I glued foiled foam sheet to the wall so that it was horizontally oriented, taking it well below the ground level outside. I then glued 1/8" masonite over and primed it to form the base of the backdrop.
This back drop was made using Rail Graphics pictures. These were imported into Photoshop and assembled to make a picture of some 20 inches by 15 feet. It was printed on a self adhesive vinyl. The sky and clouds are hand painted and the vinyl was laser cut at the tree top by the printer. Total cost was $80.
Two more backdrop were also printed using the same method one of them is some 20 inches by 24 feet and the price was also around $80.
Jack W.
Jack,
That's a lot of sweet-looking landscape! Even behind the underpass.
Reminds me of another spot where I have some mini-backdropish stuff going on, in Dove Creek, site of a hush-hush AEC plant located on the lower deck of my layout.
Since I didn't take these specifically to illustrate the backdrop, they're from a bad viewing angle. At close to eye level they work great. There's actually another one further back in the "depot" not seen here. Once you're looking into the scene correctly, they work much better. So that's another point about backdrops, be sure to consider using various forms of forced perspective to "frame" them for the viewer, as it really helps make them work. I'll take some better pics and post them later to show the difference.
Since I didn't take these specifically to illustrate the backdrop, they're from a bad viewing angle. At close to eye level they work great. There's actually another one further back in the "depot" not seen here. Once you're looking into the scene correctly, they work much better. So that's another point about backdrops, be sure to consider using various forms of forced perspective to "frame" them for the viewer, as it really helps make them work.
I'll take some better pics and post them later to show the difference.
I use photo scenes that I scale down to fit plus building flats all on card-stock.