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Need ideas on building a subway layout of N.Y.C

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Monday, July 18, 2022 1:14 PM

 

 

 

 I grew up in the North Bronx.  When I was 12 I'd walk to the Bronx Zoo then visit a pet shop south of the zoo near the intersection of 179th st and Boston Road.  This photo looks just like the El that curved over the street there south of the yards and near a beautiful waterfall where mills once operated.  What impressed me the most was the deafening screech the cars' wheels made when they rounded that bend.  I loved standing below the tracks hearing it.  -Rob
 
PS: Like the others, Joe I agree your photos could have been the real thing.  Great work, as well as all the other posters on this thread.
 
PSPS:  When I was maybe 11 (1959) I submitted an idea to Lionel for an O scale elevated subway train set using subway cars and elevated sectional track, stations, the whole works, with diagrams I drew.  Lionel wrote back and said the product would not have enough mass appeal outside of a few cities and would not sell enough sets.  They never returned the drawings.

 

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Monday, July 18, 2022 6:26 PM

Hello Rob !

  Thanks for the interesting memories.  That curve you mention was noiser prior to 1952.  The Bronx Park Stub Terminal over Boston Rd of that line ran  1 1/2 blocks north of that curve...and mailine trains (taking that curve)  and the terminal trains going straight -- with squealing wheelsets and thunderous pounding of the rails by all those wheelsets on the switch track frogs and crossing track frog-joints!

 

My EL photo (above) is much lower than that curve you remember which is about 5 stories high.  My curve is replicated elsewhere on the NY EL's of today (with buses and modern trains) - and was replicated on the now gone 4 Manhattan IRT EL Lines.  My NYC Style lamp posts are hand made by me also to get that NYC feel.

 

Many people wrote to LIONEL back in the 1950's-70's era -- some of them I know.  LIONEL gave them that shaft like you got -- and Mike Wolf (MTH) took the advice of a number of transit modelers in 1999 when he started his run of NYC (and later Chicago) Subway Sets.  He proved LIONEL managers of long ago were dead wrong, heh. LIONEL even went to produce 3 BMT-IND R-Type SMEE subway sets (using the same body shell type for all 3 classes of cars).  And just as quick,  did little to nothing on that pruoduct line after that!

 

Question -- HOW did you embed the (my) visible photo in your posting along with your texts .  I can only find a tool (insert image) that provides solely for a LINK to a photo --- but will not produce the visual photo itself unless the link, within the message text body,  is clicked and opened remotely!!   Thanks for any help here !

 

regards - Joe F

 

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Monday, July 18, 2022 7:41 PM

Question -- HOW did you embed the (my) visible photo in your posting along with your texts .  I can only find a tool (insert image) that provides solely for a LINK to a photo --- but will not produce the visual photo itself unless the link, within the message text body,  is clicked and opened remotely!!   Thanks for any help here !

 regards - Joe F

I quoted your entire post in my reply to yours, then deleted everything but that photo which you'd already imbedded.

Thank you for the wealth of info! I grew up with the NYC subway, one of my best friends.  You could go anywhere for 15 cents.  -Rob

 
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Posted by Joseph Frank on Monday, July 18, 2022 10:25 PM

Hello Rob

Thanks for the reply..  -- I do remember some time ago being able to put visible photos in the text --- but in recent months I can not do so using the 5th tool icon on the 2nd line of tools.  The rectangle that states INSERT/EDIT IMAGE.  It asks for the source (url link)  and a text name -- and just a LINK to the photo gets posted on my message.  Not the actual photo itself.   

Update -- I think I finally now figured it out !!! --- I go to the actual photo itself -- and click on COPY IMAGE --- and PASTE it in the text box on my message here -- and voila -- well, now the image shows up visible as seen BELOW ! If you right-click ON the image, it comes up much larger size !  Its a view along my O Scale NYC EL line from front of an express train on center track !  I hope the image remains with the message when I post it

regards - Joe F

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Monday, July 18, 2022 11:02 PM

Hello Rob

Here is what the TOP level of that curve looked like when it was a very busy junction prior to 1952. A northeast aimed aerial view from mid 1940's showing the north end of the E. 177th Street Mainline EL Station at right cente.  And the 1902 built original IRT West Farms Small elevated yards and repair - inspection shops.  The 3-track mainline curve to the 1918 built and added mainline extension to the White Plains Road Line (the curve you stood under in the late 1950's) is see at left of the curving yard lead tracks. The straight section to the left goes 1 1/2 blocks up Boston Road to the E.180th St - Bronx Park EAST terminal Station.  (the Bronx Park WEST terminal on the 3rd Avenue EL was at edge of Fordham U Campus further west of this location).  Note:  RIGHT CLICK on each the 2 photos on this posting to go to much larger version)

Note above the E.180St express Station of ex-NYW&B R'way - then part of the IRT Dyre Avenue Suttle line since May 1940 --- and its 4 track concrete & steel trestle crossing over E. 177th Street - in background.

 

 Here is a view north to the Bronx Park East Terminal Station at the Junction -- from the S/B local track at E. 177th St Station - below;

 

So now you see what you missed by a few years -- I remember seeing this from trains by 1950-51 on a few rides on the WPL EL to Gun Hill Road.  PS:  Note the 4 track E. 180th Street Express Station and head house offices of the ex-New York, Westchester & Boston Railroad (by then in late 1940'sas  part of the NY Transit system as the south end of the Dyre Avenue Line Shuttle since May 1940 thru 1958.

 

Regards - Joe F 

 

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Monday, July 18, 2022 11:15 PM

I see the photo Joe and it enlarges into a new tab when I click it.  Good God what magnificent craftsmanship.  Did you design movie sets?

The image method I use:  Upload to image server (I use imgur), click on image there but I never use any of their url codes, they do not work.  I back click on it and open it into a new tab, then copy THAT url, the real location.  That gets pasted into the forum post image box.  Also I constrain my photos to 600 X 800 so they are not huge.  -Rob

PS memory lane time.  As a kid I used to walk from my home to the Dyre Ave line on the Esplanade near Pelham Parkway and ride into Manhattan, face glued against the front glass door of the first car for an engineer's view of the tunnel so I could see all the parallel tracks and signals and turnouts leading into dark mysterious depths. 

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Monday, July 18, 2022 11:22 PM

Hello Rob

 

Thanks for the nice comments. No, I don't design movie sets, heh.  However,  I was told by many visitors to the layout that it looks like or could be used as a Hollywood Movie Miniature studio set for some vintage scenes. They could film-video crews could via CGI format, install walking people on my station platforms and street scenes ! Along with he models of my running trains and streetcars !

Here is another neat scene BELOW on my O Scale NYC EL from what I remember of the early EL and gate cars I rode and remember from the 1940's-50's era

Regards - Joe F

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Tuesday, July 19, 2022 12:17 AM

only thing missing Joe are the oil stains and the cigarette butts--they would muck things up, don't do it! -rob

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Tuesday, July 19, 2022 11:19 AM

Hello Rob --

 

Oil "gearbox drips) stains ? --- Well, I provided those also!  Look at the inner black guard rails on the tracks -- they are black because of (painted to represent) how those rails got black from years of dripping gearbox oil from the motor trucks.  Look to left of the left inside-track catwalk plank --- see the black stains on the ties to right of running rail -- those are (modeled-represent) oil drip stains built up over decades .Also the darkened catwalk planks between the rails on the local station track, similarly.

What you WONT see is ANY grafitti on trains and anyything else, nor trash littered sidewalks and streets, countless gum stains on platforms, burned out buildings,  abandoned wrecked cars on the street, and general lack of city maintenance and resulting "decay".  This layout models a long ago different era - heh !

 

These are some of the IRT div. trains (My models) you remember when very young (1950's-60's) BELOW:  Regards - Joe F

 

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Tuesday, July 19, 2022 5:21 PM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Colorado Ray on Tuesday, July 19, 2022 6:14 PM

Joseph Frank

 

 

 

 

Wow, simply wow. 

I believe that this is the most realistic model photo I have ever seen.  The only "give away" is the gentleman in the car on the far left. 

 

Ray

 

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Wednesday, July 20, 2022 12:58 AM

Hello Ray

 

Thanks for the nice compliment also.  I try not to use many people on my layout as I buy the half decent economy (volume packs) of seated and standing various figures.  I don't want to pay $5.00 or more for Preiser or whom ever brands of very finely painted and detailed O scale people -- would have to rob a bank to afford hundreds of them, heh.  I avoid close up shots with model people.  Or remove them if they "uglify" a good photo scene to shoot.

At least the car driver is in the background -- so the car is not seen operating on the avenue with "no one behind the wheel"...heh ! Regards - Joe F

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Wednesday, July 20, 2022 2:13 AM

Mister Mikado
PSPS:  When I was maybe 11 (1959) I submitted an idea to Lionel for an O scale elevated subway train set using subway cars and elevated sectional track, stations, the whole works, with diagrams I drew.  Lionel wrote back and said the product would not have enough mass appeal outside of a few cities and would not sell enough sets.They never returned the drawings.  

You should be grateful they responded to you at all. Most companies today would just throw the drawings in File 13 and you'd never hear a word back as it would acknowledge you sent the idea to them. That woud help them to avoid a lawsuit or having to pay you royalties years later if they ever came out with a subway car. That's the reason almost all companies reject customer ideas (outside of company run contests or surveys where the terms and conditions are explicitly laid out and you give up the rights to your ideas when you enter) and make sure they document that any such imput doesn't result in a product (like a memo saying "This kid has a pretty good idea, what do you think") That way, Lionel, in suburban New Jersey and with a famous display layout in Manhattan could reasonably claim that they were inspired  by the surrounding scene and your letter had nothing to do with it. Game companies are famous for getting customer game ideas and extensively legally documenting that they are immediately thrown in the trash with no one reading the idea.                                                            BTW, there was a movement afoot around 1990 by the prototype RR's to make model manufacturers pay royalties for using their logos and rolling stock paint schemes. The justification was "if we don't defend them, they will become public properrty and they represent ecomomically valuable corporate symbols with the public". Just like the Ford Script Logo is copyrighted and Coke's bottle shape is patented (find that wasp waisted bottle - even without any lettering - anywhere in the world and is there any doubt what it once contained), Fortunately, they decided the bad publicity and the loss of free advertising wasn't worth it. 

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Wednesday, July 20, 2022 11:27 PM

Hello Rob !

 

ummmmm " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" ---- ?????????????  Regards - Joe F

 

 

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Thursday, July 21, 2022 10:59 AM

Joseph Frank

Hello Rob !

 

ummmmm " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" ---- ?????????????  Regards - Joe F

 

 

 

Translates into "out of words" or "speechless" (regarding your modeling)

Ask Model Railroading magazine to do an article on you.  It should make the cover too.  -Rob

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Friday, July 22, 2022 10:48 PM

Hello Rob

Thanks -- I understand now, heh. 

Looks like you and Colorado Ray are the only ones here actuvely following or commenting on this thread presently.. Thanks BOTH for your support !   Doesn't look like it would likely get much play as a potential MR Magazine article either !     regards - Joe F

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Posted by Mister Mikado on Friday, July 22, 2022 11:22 PM

Joseph Frank

Doesn't look like it would likely get much play as a potential MR Magazine article either !     regards - Joe F

 

I disagree!  Ask them!  I don't know the procedure but you could message Steven Otte right on this forum.  I guess they will want photos to make a decision.  If you send them the ones you've been posting, they will be blown away. -Rob

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, July 23, 2022 11:43 AM

While heavy transit might not be a frequent topic in MR, this thread has gotten the second most views of the recent threads.  I think MR likes to feature quality work in any rail format.

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Posted by Colorado Ray on Saturday, July 23, 2022 4:17 PM

Definately worth an article.  We need to start a petition.

Ray

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