Btw, since we were discussing ideas for a small switching layout. Today I got Lance Mindheim's newish book "How to Design a Small Switching Layout" (Plus a couple of Pelle Søborg books on landscaping and detailing/weathering) in my mailbox.
Lance does something interesting - instead of just pouring it on with examples of switching layouts, he discusses the planning principles he is applying when designing a small switching layout.
He talks about strategic planning - figuring out how much space you can spend and the layout footprint, what scale you want to model in and then what you want to model in that space. Observe that he does not start with what he wants to model, but instead starts with the benchwork.
Both approaches work, of course. But if you start with the benchwork, you need to be even harder when selecting what to include and what to drop.
He is also, as anyone who has seen any of his layouts can attest to, a fan of not adding too much track to a scene, and allowing plenty of room for scene breaks.
He talks about allocating as much as 1/3rd of the layout surface for scenery break rather than for tracks and rail served industries. A pretty tough act if doing a 7-foot layout in H0 scale, of course.
And he takes a swing at the fairly common practice of having a runaround between two of the yard tracks - instead he advocates (for small switching layouts) to have the runaround where you have your industry spurs, _before_ you come to the single ended yard tracks.
Which is pretty much analogous to the principle Byron Henderson advocated e.g. in his Alameda switching layout - placing a runaround centrally, so the tracks that form the runaround is multiple-use tracks - part of the yard lead, part of industry leads, part of a runaround.
Lance Mindheim also talks about placing the mainline through the scene in various ways and advantages or disadvantages of the various approaches and quite a few other things.
Most of his planning principles were not all that new to me, but he writes well, and the principles he advocate is worth a study for people who are thinking about building a small switching layout.
Smile, Stein
BRAKIE Andrew,I perfer switching layouts over any other type so,I will share my views. 1.Avoid any "switching puzzle" design as it will turn into a time waster. ...
Andrew,I perfer switching layouts over any other type so,I will share my views.
1.Avoid any "switching puzzle" design as it will turn into a time waster. ...
Clearly, this is a personal preference .... and one which I fully subscribe. I hate puzzles which, intentionally or unintentionally, make things unnecessarily complicated, time consuming, and frustrating. It is particularly so when realizing real railroads don't lay tracks for the purpose of making the job of train crews difficult and slowing service to customers. The straight-forward and ordinary are more realistic and offer plenty of operating interest on a layout.
See if you can get a hold of ian Rice's book Track Plans for Small Spaces. I think it is out of print, but if you see it, get it.
sfb
Ponti Hi everyone, I have been looking on here for ideas and found a few but need some more . I have a couple of boards from a layout design that I didn't use so have been thinking of a HO switching layout. The total space available is 7' x 16" , yes I know a strange size. Any ideas and help offered will be greatfully received. Andrew
Hi everyone,
I have been looking on here for ideas and found a few but need some more . I have a couple of boards from a layout design that I didn't use so have been thinking of a HO switching layout. The total space available is 7' x 16" , yes I know a strange size. Any ideas and help offered will be greatfully received.
Andrew
1.Avoid any "switching puzzle" design as it will turn into a time waster.
2.Use your available space wisely by using 1/2 a building and building flats along the backdrop with smaller full buildings in the foreground..
3.Less is better.Keep it simple by having one industry per industrial track.You can have more then one car spot per industry.
Like this:
4.For longer operation give your brakemen time to release the hand brake,unlock the switch,unlock the derail etc.Use slow switching speed.
5.Avoid having industries on a switchback that involves moving cars from another industry..Use a crossing instead.
6.A runaround track should hold at least 3 cars..The "tail" tracks between the end of the board and the first switch sold be able to hold a engine and 2 cars with a 1/2 car to spare-this is for looks and safety more then anything.
Comments..The lessons learn from each ISL I built only help to improve the next one.I learn first hand that any ISL that is more aggravation to switch then it was fun is caused by poor planing, to much track and insufficient run around track.
And in closing I can not stress it enough to keep things simple---less is better on small switching layouts.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hi Pinto,
good to see you back.
I have drawn your second plan with some changes.
Some remarks
1) The use of the "feed in" track is not clear to me. Would be a nice place for a team-track , but it is also needed as lead for the scrap yard.
2) The track to the right is leading to staging, and could be used as a lead track too, so you could make the spur at the bottom much longer.
3) I added a spur to the warehouse at the top right.(Fat City Bicycles, are you familiar with that layout?)
4) I don't like the point of view. All action is behind warehouses. Assuming this pike is built high, viewing and reaching in will be a problem.
5) All tracks are parallel to the edge of the layout, Building them at an angle would create a better look.
A way out: When the main is running from the "feed in" to the upper right corner the low scrapyard can be build up front and the warehouses at the back of the layout. Or flip top and bottom!.
Have fun, keep smiling
Paul
They both look fine to me. On the top layout, can you work the scrap yard without having to move any cars spotted at the top left warehouse? It appears that you can siwtch all of the others just fine without affecting any other industries which is good.
On the bottom layout you have a couple of tracks that each serve more than one warehouse. This could add a bit of a challenge but isn't necessarily a design killer. My concern with that layout would be with the warehouses on the right. Are they rail served or just scenic elements? If the bottom right one is rail served, you'll have a difficult time switching out the industries to the left of it. If it is a scenic element, that lead will work just fine.
Overall I think these designs are fine. Just make sure you understand the difference between a switching layout and a switching puzzle. If you want a switching layout, you don't want things to get too complicated and want to be able to switch out each location without too much difficulty. However the smaller the layout, the more moves you need to incorporate into it to keep your interest up. In that case a bit of a challenge is a good thing and you've got that with industries facing each direction which makes run around moves necessary. Having multiple industries on a single siding isn't uncommon either so don't think the fact that I brought it up means you shouldn't do it. Just make sure you have enough room to switch them easily. You'll find that if you try to overcrowd a layout with too many cars and not enough space, the puzzle aspect of it will get old pretty quick. If you can get a cassette staging system off of one end and use car cards these could actually be quite fun. There is no need to switch every industry at the same time and is much more realistic if you don't. Overall they look good. Just make sure you've adequate space to do what you want without adding too many headaches.
Hi all,
Been busy with things.
I've had a play with a track design program and come up with these couple of designs. Are they realistic or am I way off the mark?
Yellow warehouses are not supported by the railroad.
Horsepower is good.
steinjr I'll stop carpet bombing you with ideas and suggestions now, and allow you some time and space to actually read and ponder the small pile of information you have received links to. Grin, Stein
I'll stop carpet bombing you with ideas and suggestions now, and allow you some time and space to actually read and ponder the small pile of information you have received links to.
Grin, Stein
Stein,
Thank you very much for all the idea's. I am on holiday next week so I can try and digest all the information. There are some wonderful layout designs here.
Thanks again
FWIW, here is an attempt to take Dave Howell's 63rds street yard and stretch it to 7 feet x 18":
Intended to allow switching of up to three 3 inbound and 3 outbound 40-foot cars by a small switcher engine.
Runaround is short, but should fit three cars.
7-8 industry spots (you can always decide that certain cars has to go to certain doors at the two factories).
All turnouts used in the plan are Peco mediums.
Paulus Jas Does this mean you want a staging track behind a building, long enough to hold a short cut of cars;lets say 2' 6"? A turnout with the rest of the tracks in the middle of your layout so you have some space left for a lead. And must that staging track be in easy reach for fiddling at the same time? Or can you apply a cassette as is often done by Lance Mindheim? With a cassette it is quite possible to build the right part of the German/Miami layout in HO. I love to see Stein's input in your thread, as on small yards in another, I am missing a bit what you have come up with. BTW if I knew you wanted an urban freight scene, I would have never come up with a rural disign by CJ Freezer. have fun Paul
Does this mean you want a staging track behind a building, long enough to hold a short cut of cars;lets say 2' 6"? A turnout with the rest of the tracks in the middle of your layout so you have some space left for a lead. And must that staging track be in easy reach for fiddling at the same time?
Or can you apply a cassette as is often done by Lance Mindheim? With a cassette it is quite possible to build the right part of the German/Miami layout in HO.
I love to see Stein's input in your thread, as on small yards in another, I am missing a bit what you have come up with. BTW if I knew you wanted an urban freight scene, I would have never come up with a rural disign by CJ Freezer.
have fun
Hi Paul,
I have the space to mount a cassette on the end, I was thinking that having the track disapear behind a building would make hiding the exit line easier, making a change from using a tunnel or bridge for the line to disapear into.
The plan from CJ Freezer is good, it could be adapted to an Urban setting quite easy.
Btw - just to throw a few more designs out there - here are two old (and not very good) 7 foot H0 scale designs of mine, from about 2 years ago.
First one was inspired by Progressive Rail's Airlake Industrial Park in Lakeville, MN, ca 2001:
Second was inspired by the grain elevators along Hiawatha Avenue in southern Minneapolis in the 1950s:
But I think I managed a design that sounds more like what you are looking for in 8 1/2 feet here:
Here is another switching layout plan I did that turned out somewhat reasonable. About 12 feet long along longest wall - ie a little under 7 feet in N scale. 2 feet wide in H0 - could be done in about 13-14" in N scale.
But if all you can fit really is 7 feet, and that is an absolute limit, I would seriously consider N scale.
Here is an illustration of how much could fit into an 8x1 foot design in N scale - those cars are 60-foot cars, btw. Design of mine, heavily inspired by Jonathan Jones' Mid-Atlantic and Western from the May 2001 Model Railroader Magazine - wouldn't be too hard to pare this one down by a foot:
Byron Henderson has several excellent small N scale switching designs on his web page (the Alameda Belt Line - 1 x 6 feet, collapsible to 1 x 3 feet for transport and the San Jose Switcher - both can be seen here: http://www.layoutvision.com/gallery/)
Lots of options for switching layouts. Have fun!
Smile,Stein
hi Ponti,
Pontithat the train can appear from behind buildings and spot cars into or infront others.
Here is an excellent modern Miami railroading layout in the style of Lance Mindheim, by german modeler Kurt on the forum The Gauge (www.the-gauge.net):
Core module (middle/corner one) is 11 feet long by 14" wide. The two extensions (the one on the left is 5 feet by 9" and the short part of the L is 6 1/2 feet by 2 feet) are detachable, and can be unhooked and stored under the rest of the layout when not in use.
Obviously too long for you 7 feet by 16" space. But you could convert from H0 scale to N scale and fit the core module into 6-7 feet, with the L-shaped removable extension being a more manageable 3 1/2 feet long.
here is a plan I developed some time ago.
The detachable barge is meant to act as staging, simulating the arrival/departure of new cars/trains.
Food for thought?
Hmmm - I guess you could make a stretched version of Jack Trollope ("Shortliner Jack")'s 5-foot "Box Street Yard" (available e.g. at Carl Arendt's micro layouts web site: http://www.carendt.com/microplans/pages/shelf/sectorplate/index.html).
Or Dave Howell's 4 foot 63rd Street Yard (available on Adrian Wymann's Shunting Puzzles website: http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/small-layouts.html)
steinjr Probably would be a bit easier to offer advice if it was a bit clearer what kind of switching layout you were looking for - location, era, theme. Smile, Stein
Probably would be a bit easier to offer advice if it was a bit clearer what kind of switching layout you were looking for - location, era, theme.
Hi Stein,
Good point. I had been thinking of a imaginary switching area, based within an industrial or warehouse setting so that the train can appear from behind buildings and spot cars into or infront others. I had been thinking of doing it roughly 80's/90's with diesel loco's, and I had been thinking of using 1 of the Railroad operators like Aberdeen & Rockfish Railroad, Guilford Rail System, Reading & Northern or Southern Railway, as of course these are places over here or in Southern's case was an operator here. I want to run Sound equiped loco's as I already have a DCC system.
Yes I am familiar with the British model railroading web site http://www.rmweb.co.uk and indeed there are some good idea's there to.
PontiThanks guys for giving me some more idea's to mullover. Some very good layouts.
Thanks guys for giving me some more idea's to mullover. Some very good layouts.
I take it you (being English) are already familiar with the British model railroading web site http://www.rmweb.co.uk ? Quite a few small shelf switchers inspired by British prototypes there.
hi Andrew,
I found in an old Peco publication a couple of small designs by the late CJ Freezer.
Just a simple station, 6 feet long. I added the cassette and some scenery idea's. With the one extra foot you could add two small industries left of the roadcrossing or make the existing plants larger.
The switchbacks and switching leads on such layouts are invariably quite short so they scream out for short locomotives like six-drivered steam tank types and short four-axled diesel switchers like the HH600, SW7, S-1, etc.
Mark
Scot Osterweil's Highland Terminal plan (which is a 6 foot by 1 foot variant on the Switchman's Nightmare): http://users.rcn.com/weyand/tractronics/switching_layout/switching_layout.htm
Carl Arendt's Micro Layouts site has quite a few shelf switching layout plans - here are some:http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page71a/index.htmlhttp://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page57/index.htmlhttp://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page54/index.htmlhttp://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page53a/index.htmlhttp://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page53/index.html
An inspirational 2x4 foot H0 layout ("Brooklyn 3am") - little too wide for your 16", but still:http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page87/index.html
Also, we had a longish forum thread discussing various shelf switching layouts a while back - here: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/153668.aspx
You want to consider a short run around near the bulk of your switches. And a place to entry the train so you can get to it to and from switching.
You will want dual switch engines so that they will help each other over dead spots in track. The road engine can do it, but you will see that they are not as agile as the switch engines.
Linn Westcott's "Switchman's Nightmare"
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