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Liquid Flitz for track gleaming?

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  • Member since
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Posted by PRR_in_AZ on Monday, November 9, 2009 11:14 PM

Allright.  Thanks.  I guess what I'll do is test (gleam) the helix first since I'm not going to paint the track in there and then if that works good do the rest of the layout after I paint the track.

Chris

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Posted by PRR_in_AZ on Monday, November 9, 2009 11:17 PM

Y

Mark R.

I just checked out that No-Ox ....

http://www.sanchem.com/ox.html

That's were I was and I was wondering if it is the same stuff others have been referring to.  I'm going to wait until I here back from others to see if there is no negative effects on electrical contact.  I've got plenty to do in the meantime.

Chris

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  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Monday, November 9, 2009 11:26 PM

Doing that helix is going to be a real bear !  Keep in mind, that when you're burnishing with your stainless steel washer, it's not just a matter of briskly rubbing it over the rails !

To properly burnish the rail requires a fair bit of pressure. The stainless steel is a harder metal than the rail - what you are doing is literally melding the rail smooth. As you're progressing, you'll feel the surface of the rail begin to smooth out - you can feel the difference. You need to really bear down on it for it to work .... pretty tough to do reaching into a helix or tunnel. You'll get it done, but don't be surprised if your arm aches a bit the next day !  LOL

Mark. 

 

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by desertdog on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:23 AM

"John - How often do you have to apply the oil to keep things running smoothly ? Also, do you ever have to actually clean your track (alcohol / thinners) by hand ? Before I went through the process on my layout, I tried most every process known. I have a lot of grades on my layout (2.2% max) and I found even the slightest application of oil severely hampered tractive effort. Trains that normally used two engines were now requiring three. Cleaning and drying the rails brought things back to where they were."

Mark,

I do a preventative maintenance track cleaning over the entire layout twice a year. For the main line I use a cleaning tool sold by Micro-Mark, which consists of a small, round abrasive pad on a long aluminum handle.  It allows me to cover a lot of territory without knocking down signals, pole lines, trees, etc. For turnouts and crossings, I  have a small, square abrasive pad that is softer than a Brite Boy.  I believe I also got it through Micro-Mark.  It is not as abrasive as the Brite Boy but it works just as well for me.   I do not use any alcohol or other liquid cleaners on the track. 

After I have cleaned off the railheads, I apply just one drop of the clipper oil on each rail.  The trains will carry it around and spread it throughout the layout.  It will last until the next maintenance session.

I might add that I also run trains at least once a week for 2-3 hours.  Along with all metal wheel sets, that helps keep things clean, as well.  Finally, whenever I change out locomotives, I clean the wheel treads with isopropyl alcohol and a Q-tip before putting them on the shelf.  I don't bother to clean the wheel treads on freight cars as that does not seem to be a problem.

Other than the slope of the garage floor which is about 2-1/2" over 24', I don't have any grades to contend with, so I cannot speak to that issue.

 John Timm

 

 

 

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Posted by PRR_in_AZ on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:10 AM

Mark R.
Doing that helix is going to be a real bear !  Keep in mind, that when you're burnishing with your stainless steel washer, it's not just a matter of briskly rubbing it over the rails !

Well, I can stand in the helix which makes getting at stuff a lot easier.  I was wondering how hard I need to burnish the rails.  Good to know.  Does the rail and washer get hot from the friction of burnishing?  Maybe if I take the stainless steel washer and mount it on a piece of 2 x 2 block of wood that might help.  If my track is new do I have to still sand it?  Actually I really want to try this because I have a brass steamer that constantly keeps stalling on the track.  I was thinking of applying additional electrical pick-up to the locomotive, but I might hold off on that to see if the gleaming process solves the issue.

Chris

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  • From: Somewhere in North Texas
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Posted by desertdog on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:28 AM

Chris,

If the stalling problem is limited to the brass steamer, I'd say that cleaning the track will not do a lot of good.  I have found that good pickup on as many wheels as possible is another ingredient to smooth operation.  The more recent locomotives are a lot better at this than those of 20-30 years ago, but even some of the newer Athearn diesels, for example, have issues with the electrical connection to the trucks and need to be hard-wired rather than trusting the plastic connectors that rely on friction for a tight connection.  I used to use Tomar sliders on early diesels and I see that they are still available.

John Timm 

 

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Posted by PRR_in_AZ on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:40 AM

John,

Without getting too far off topic, I am considering putting Tomar sliders on this engine.  It is the largest engine I have (2-10-4) and has the longest wheelbase.  It will negotiate my 30" radii OK, but slight undulations in the track probably lift the drivers slightly to allow an interuption in the current flow.  My hope would be that if I gleam the track and make it ultra smooth, the wheels that still stay in contact with the rail will pick up the current more efficiently.  Ultimately this isn't the only goal for doing the gleaming, just a nice side benefit. 

Chris

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  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:04 PM

The amount of sanding required is determined by the condition of the track to start with. My track had already suffered from years of cleaning with all kinds of abrasive products. Brand new track may not even require the sanding step at if it appears to be smooth and free of scratches.

Use a good magnifying glass and inspect the railhead (look at my earlier pictures) - you'd be surprised how rough good looking track really is ! All those scratches and pits are where dirt and gunk can accumulate. The idea is to eliminate all those areas where that gunk can stick into.

A handle on your washer IS a good idea. I use a 1-1/2 inch stainless steel washer with a small wooden block epoxied to the top. Most washers are stamped - made sure you burnish the rail with the side that has the smooth outside edge, otherwise you run the risk of adding more scratches.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by spidge on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:09 PM

PRR_in_AZ

Spidge,

I just might take you up on that!  Thanks for the offer.  Let us know how you do.  I did a quick search on the stuff and found out that it is actually some type of wax?  It says it never really dries so that got me a little concerned.  Maybe I was looking at the wrong stuff.  The site I went to says they use it to preserve machinery, etc., that is exposed to high humidity and salt.  Moth-balling navy equipment, etc.  Is this the stuff you're referring to?

Chris

I don't think it will dry and yes it is used for large swicth contacts and Navel applications. It does conduct electricity as it is designed for electrical switch protection in humid areas. The idea is to paint your track then do the gleam method followed by the no-ox. Put a thin film on your finger and rub the tops of your track. Not the sides as paint will not stick after the no-ox. You will not be able to see much of anything on the rail. Run your locos for an hour to ensure they get treated as well, but remove any plastic whellsets and traction tires. Allow the no-ox to sit on the rails for 24 hours then follow up with wiping the railheads with a dry cloth or spare t-shirt type material.

The only detracters from this products application in model railroading are from those who have not tried it. So if you want to try it PM your address to me and I will order some for myself and send some along for first hand testing. I will order a couple tubes and anyone interested just drop me a PM.

If you would like some history on the use of no-ox in model railroading Linn Wescott used it over 40 years ago and wrote about its application in 764 Helpfull Hints for Model Railroaders 1965, third printing in 1975. He disscussed track cleaning vs track treatment. Amazing a 45 year old product may just be the demise of all those track cleaning cars. I will admit I do have a Centerline track cleaner that has not seen the light of day in 7 months.odel Railroaders' 196564 Helpful Hints for Model Railroaders' 1965

 

John

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Posted by jbmerv on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:35 PM
  1. I also had a look at Sanchem's website and I found this:
  •  

    1.  Model Railroad Tracks:  Gary is a Model Railroad Train enthusiast. I applied the NO-OX-ID to my layout 4 years ago, and have experienced skip free running ever since. This is even after periods of no running for as long as a month. I HAVE NOT CLEANED MY TRACK IN 4 YEARS! An added bonus, is that the NO-OX-ID has changed my loco wheels into better conductors, as I have not had to clean them either.  

    This is Gary's application method for NO-OX-ID “A SPECIAL” for Model Railroad Tracks. NO-OX-ID’s corrosion inhibitor system prevents the formation of oxides. Typical greases can not use this inhibitor system because it would break down the greases gel formation. The product is not an oxidant. NO-OX-ID penetrates into the metal surface of the rail.

  • If you have gunked up your track with plaster, glue, or oil, you should remove any of these contaminants prior to NO-OX-ID application. The method of applying NO-OX-ID to rails is as follows:

    1.  Use a mild abrasive such as fine sandpaper or a brite boy on all rails to remove any oxidation.

    2.  Wipe all rails with a rag and alcohol to remove any dirt and fine particles.

    3. Vacuum all rails to ensure cleanliness.

    4. Put very thin smears on your finger and rub it on your rails. The total amount of NO-OX-ID “A SPECIAL” that should be applied to 500’ of N scale track is about ¼ teaspoon. 

    5. Run all your locomotives (no rolling stock yet) over your entire track. You may notice some wheel slippage, but this ensures that all wheels get treated with NO-OX-ID         

     6. Remove all locomotives from track and wipe all rails with a clean rag to remove any excess product. Don’t scrub, just 

    7. Wait 24 hours.

    8. Run trains and forget about cleaning your track except for occasional light vacuuming.

     If you still have a slippage problem, you may have too much on loco wheels. Clean off excess with a clean rag or Q-tip.

     

    So it is pretty clear that it can be used for tracks. I might even try some myself.

     Justin

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    Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:59 PM

    Ditto from Semafore, originator of the gleam method. Keep it simple and sweet. I don't use anything after burnishing, PERIOD. 5 years on the museum's layout show the longevity of the method. Only dry-wipe as necessary with a used train cotton t-shirt, a noble way for it to go, serving the railroad. The only expense is the initial sandpaper, block, and SS washer: $ 6.00 ?  No ongoing expenses. EVER!

    That's been my ultimate goal for everybody, 98 per cent more free time to play trains, and more saved money to buy them to play with!

     Be good; be well; be Trained!

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    Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:30 AM

    I gotta tell you, those are incredible pictures! My attempts couldn't produce that quality.

    In any event, thank you for posting them for all to see; this method ensures the most absolute continueous electrical contact possible, and significantly extends the times between cleanings. Just never use any abrasives after the initial aplication, only dry wipe with cotton tee. Treat it like a mirror, for that's what it becomes. And nothing after the burnish, not even Flitz or Waal's. What sense is it to thorougly clean the metal, only to add OIL, POLISH, or WAX? That will reduce traction, PERIOD. I have tested this with a draw meter. Gleam and simple. Works on guitar frets, too!

     

    Semafore

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