I gotta tell you, those are incredible pictures! My attempts couldn't produce that quality.
In any event, thank you for posting them for all to see; this method ensures the most absolute continueous electrical contact possible, and significantly extends the times between cleanings. Just never use any abrasives after the initial aplication, only dry wipe with cotton tee. Treat it like a mirror, for that's what it becomes. And nothing after the burnish, not even Flitz or Waal's. What sense is it to thorougly clean the metal, only to add OIL, POLISH, or WAX? That will reduce traction, PERIOD. I have tested this with a draw meter. Gleam and simple. Works on guitar frets, too!
Semafore
Ditto from Semafore, originator of the gleam method. Keep it simple and sweet. I don't use anything after burnishing, PERIOD. 5 years on the museum's layout show the longevity of the method. Only dry-wipe as necessary with a used train cotton t-shirt, a noble way for it to go, serving the railroad. The only expense is the initial sandpaper, block, and SS washer: $ 6.00 ? No ongoing expenses. EVER!
That's been my ultimate goal for everybody, 98 per cent more free time to play trains, and more saved money to buy them to play with!
Be good; be well; be Trained!
This is Gary's application method for NO-OX-ID “A SPECIAL” for Model Railroad Tracks. NO-OX-ID’s corrosion inhibitor system prevents the formation of oxides. Typical greases can not use this inhibitor system because it would break down the greases gel formation. The product is not an oxidant. NO-OX-ID penetrates into the metal surface of the rail.
If you have gunked up your track with plaster, glue, or oil, you should remove any of these contaminants prior to NO-OX-ID application. The method of applying NO-OX-ID to rails is as follows:
1. Use a mild abrasive such as fine sandpaper or a brite boy on all rails to remove any oxidation.
2. Wipe all rails with a rag and alcohol to remove any dirt and fine particles.
3. Vacuum all rails to ensure cleanliness.
4. Put very thin smears on your finger and rub it on your rails. The total amount of NO-OX-ID “A SPECIAL” that should be applied to 500’ of N scale track is about ¼ teaspoon.
5. Run all your locomotives (no rolling stock yet) over your entire track. You may notice some wheel slippage, but this ensures that all wheels get treated with NO-OX-ID
6. Remove all locomotives from track and wipe all rails with a clean rag to remove any excess product. Don’t scrub, just
7. Wait 24 hours.
8. Run trains and forget about cleaning your track except for occasional light vacuuming.
If you still have a slippage problem, you may have too much on loco wheels. Clean off excess with a clean rag or Q-tip.
So it is pretty clear that it can be used for tracks. I might even try some myself.
Justin
PRR_in_AZ Spidge, I just might take you up on that! Thanks for the offer. Let us know how you do. I did a quick search on the stuff and found out that it is actually some type of wax? It says it never really dries so that got me a little concerned. Maybe I was looking at the wrong stuff. The site I went to says they use it to preserve machinery, etc., that is exposed to high humidity and salt. Moth-balling navy equipment, etc. Is this the stuff you're referring to? Chris
Spidge,
I just might take you up on that! Thanks for the offer. Let us know how you do. I did a quick search on the stuff and found out that it is actually some type of wax? It says it never really dries so that got me a little concerned. Maybe I was looking at the wrong stuff. The site I went to says they use it to preserve machinery, etc., that is exposed to high humidity and salt. Moth-balling navy equipment, etc. Is this the stuff you're referring to?
Chris
I don't think it will dry and yes it is used for large swicth contacts and Navel applications. It does conduct electricity as it is designed for electrical switch protection in humid areas. The idea is to paint your track then do the gleam method followed by the no-ox. Put a thin film on your finger and rub the tops of your track. Not the sides as paint will not stick after the no-ox. You will not be able to see much of anything on the rail. Run your locos for an hour to ensure they get treated as well, but remove any plastic whellsets and traction tires. Allow the no-ox to sit on the rails for 24 hours then follow up with wiping the railheads with a dry cloth or spare t-shirt type material.
The only detracters from this products application in model railroading are from those who have not tried it. So if you want to try it PM your address to me and I will order some for myself and send some along for first hand testing. I will order a couple tubes and anyone interested just drop me a PM.
If you would like some history on the use of no-ox in model railroading Linn Wescott used it over 40 years ago and wrote about its application in 764 Helpfull Hints for Model Railroaders 1965, third printing in 1975. He disscussed track cleaning vs track treatment. Amazing a 45 year old product may just be the demise of all those track cleaning cars. I will admit I do have a Centerline track cleaner that has not seen the light of day in 7 months.odel Railroaders' 196564 Helpful Hints for Model Railroaders' 1965
John
The amount of sanding required is determined by the condition of the track to start with. My track had already suffered from years of cleaning with all kinds of abrasive products. Brand new track may not even require the sanding step at if it appears to be smooth and free of scratches.
Use a good magnifying glass and inspect the railhead (look at my earlier pictures) - you'd be surprised how rough good looking track really is ! All those scratches and pits are where dirt and gunk can accumulate. The idea is to eliminate all those areas where that gunk can stick into.
A handle on your washer IS a good idea. I use a 1-1/2 inch stainless steel washer with a small wooden block epoxied to the top. Most washers are stamped - made sure you burnish the rail with the side that has the smooth outside edge, otherwise you run the risk of adding more scratches.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
John,
Without getting too far off topic, I am considering putting Tomar sliders on this engine. It is the largest engine I have (2-10-4) and has the longest wheelbase. It will negotiate my 30" radii OK, but slight undulations in the track probably lift the drivers slightly to allow an interuption in the current flow. My hope would be that if I gleam the track and make it ultra smooth, the wheels that still stay in contact with the rail will pick up the current more efficiently. Ultimately this isn't the only goal for doing the gleaming, just a nice side benefit.
Chris,
If the stalling problem is limited to the brass steamer, I'd say that cleaning the track will not do a lot of good. I have found that good pickup on as many wheels as possible is another ingredient to smooth operation. The more recent locomotives are a lot better at this than those of 20-30 years ago, but even some of the newer Athearn diesels, for example, have issues with the electrical connection to the trucks and need to be hard-wired rather than trusting the plastic connectors that rely on friction for a tight connection. I used to use Tomar sliders on early diesels and I see that they are still available.
John Timm
Mark R.Doing that helix is going to be a real bear ! Keep in mind, that when you're burnishing with your stainless steel washer, it's not just a matter of briskly rubbing it over the rails !
Well, I can stand in the helix which makes getting at stuff a lot easier. I was wondering how hard I need to burnish the rails. Good to know. Does the rail and washer get hot from the friction of burnishing? Maybe if I take the stainless steel washer and mount it on a piece of 2 x 2 block of wood that might help. If my track is new do I have to still sand it? Actually I really want to try this because I have a brass steamer that constantly keeps stalling on the track. I was thinking of applying additional electrical pick-up to the locomotive, but I might hold off on that to see if the gleaming process solves the issue.
"John - How often do you have to apply the oil to keep things running smoothly ? Also, do you ever have to actually clean your track (alcohol / thinners) by hand ? Before I went through the process on my layout, I tried most every process known. I have a lot of grades on my layout (2.2% max) and I found even the slightest application of oil severely hampered tractive effort. Trains that normally used two engines were now requiring three. Cleaning and drying the rails brought things back to where they were."
Mark,
I do a preventative maintenance track cleaning over the entire layout twice a year. For the main line I use a cleaning tool sold by Micro-Mark, which consists of a small, round abrasive pad on a long aluminum handle. It allows me to cover a lot of territory without knocking down signals, pole lines, trees, etc. For turnouts and crossings, I have a small, square abrasive pad that is softer than a Brite Boy. I believe I also got it through Micro-Mark. It is not as abrasive as the Brite Boy but it works just as well for me. I do not use any alcohol or other liquid cleaners on the track.
After I have cleaned off the railheads, I apply just one drop of the clipper oil on each rail. The trains will carry it around and spread it throughout the layout. It will last until the next maintenance session.
I might add that I also run trains at least once a week for 2-3 hours. Along with all metal wheel sets, that helps keep things clean, as well. Finally, whenever I change out locomotives, I clean the wheel treads with isopropyl alcohol and a Q-tip before putting them on the shelf. I don't bother to clean the wheel treads on freight cars as that does not seem to be a problem.
Other than the slope of the garage floor which is about 2-1/2" over 24', I don't have any grades to contend with, so I cannot speak to that issue.
Doing that helix is going to be a real bear ! Keep in mind, that when you're burnishing with your stainless steel washer, it's not just a matter of briskly rubbing it over the rails !
To properly burnish the rail requires a fair bit of pressure. The stainless steel is a harder metal than the rail - what you are doing is literally melding the rail smooth. As you're progressing, you'll feel the surface of the rail begin to smooth out - you can feel the difference. You need to really bear down on it for it to work .... pretty tough to do reaching into a helix or tunnel. You'll get it done, but don't be surprised if your arm aches a bit the next day ! LOL
Y
Mark R. I just checked out that No-Ox .... http://www.sanchem.com/ox.html
I just checked out that No-Ox ....
http://www.sanchem.com/ox.html
That's were I was and I was wondering if it is the same stuff others have been referring to. I'm going to wait until I here back from others to see if there is no negative effects on electrical contact. I've got plenty to do in the meantime.
Allright. Thanks. I guess what I'll do is test (gleam) the helix first since I'm not going to paint the track in there and then if that works good do the rest of the layout after I paint the track.
Based on what I'm reading, it doesn't sound as though the stuff is electrically conductive. If you are going to give it a try, only do a short section, and don't allow your train to spread it around the whole layout until you are certain of it's performance. It doesn't really sound like the kind of product we are looking for here.
Chris - My track was painted and weathered years prior to actually discovering the process.
You could burnish your rails either before or after. If you do it before you paint your rails, you'll probably have to do another final polish after you weather your rail as the thinners you use to remove the excess paint from the railhead (don't forget the inside edge of the railhead as well) will also remove the protective coating of the polish.
No worries. Like I said, I'm more curious than anything. I would have no reason to doubt your success with this method. Hell, never having to actually clean track - that's for me! One more question if you don't mind answering (someone else can chime in here as well). Did/Do you paint and weather your rails/track before or after gleaming?
Thanks,
PRR_in_AZ Winter is the nice time of year here in the Phoenix, AZ area. I was wondering also about the no-OX product to protect your hard work. Everything oxidizes (metal) over time but our relative humidity is low here most of the year but we do have a lot of dust (more like powder fine dirt). Does anyone know if the No-Ox is a polisher and protector - or just a protective coating? I guess I could just do a search and find out - Duh. Chris
Winter is the nice time of year here in the Phoenix, AZ area. I was wondering also about the no-OX product to protect your hard work. Everything oxidizes (metal) over time but our relative humidity is low here most of the year but we do have a lot of dust (more like powder fine dirt). Does anyone know if the No-Ox is a polisher and protector - or just a protective coating? I guess I could just do a search and find out - Duh.
Chris, no-ox is not a polish rather it treats the rail. It actually chemically penetrates the rail to protect it. I plan to order some and if you still have doubts do the "gleam" method to prepare the rails and I will send you enough no-ox for your layout. It does not take much. So little in fact you will wonder if you are adding anything to the rails. A teaspoon full will be almost a lifetime supply for 500' of track.
Sorry guys - I didn't mean the off-handed comment about starting an argument - it was more of a throw back from all the arguments this topic created in the early years of this technique and I didn't want to start it all back up again.
John - How often do you have to apply the oil to keep things running smoothly ? Also, do you ever have to actually clean your track (alcohol / thinners) by hand ? Before I went through the process on my layout, I tried most every process known. I have a lot of grades on my layout (2.2% max) and I found even the slightest application of oil severely hampered tractive effort. Trains that normally used two engines were now requiring three. Cleaning and drying the rails brought things back to where they were.
I have over 1200 feet of track and I hate having to clean it all just to run some trains. I desperately wanted something that would make it virtually maintenance free. My layout sits idle usually from April to November. Come time to run trains again, all it takes is a couple laps with the masonite cars and we're in business - even the engines pulling the masonite cars around for the first time aren't stuttering.
Just as a comparison of this process for visitors, I left one parallel track in my yard un-burnished. It's more than obvious which one it is. Even after all these years, the burnished track still looks like chrome where-as the single length of unburnished track appears to be a dull silver and always requires an alcohol wipe most every time we run trains. There is a real difference in how the engines run on that unburnished length of track.
As I said before, there ARE a lot of people using the oil on their track and really liking it. Personally I see it as a band-aid, not a cure.
Mark R.PRR_in_AZ Yep, I'll probably go pick some up. I'll do the gleam on the helix and then add the clipper oil when I'm done. Sally's (good call) I would have never thought of that. Chris .... And then you'll be right back to having to regularly clean your track again. The whole concept is to get your rails smooth, clean and DRY. Think about it - sure the hair clipper oil and all those other track cleaning fluids work, but they aren't a cure. You have an oily conductive film on the rails - unless your layout is in a sterile environment, you're going to have dust settling on the rails. The wheels now continually grind this dust into the oil film until it creates a gunk on the rails AND the wheels. Now you're right back to square one regularly cleaning the track once a month. Dust that settles on DRY rails comes right off with no residue left behind. I've been to people's layouts that use the oil method. When-ever the engine starts to stutter, out comes the oil and a few finger swipes, away it goes like new .... I also observed as I wiped my fingers on the track, I continually picked up an oily black residue. If you guys want to keep oiling down the track to keep things rolling, knock yourself out .... you might also want to save yourself all the effort of burnishing and polishing your rails as well because you're defeating the whole purpose by ultimately just applying long term gunk to your rails and probably making those nicely burnished rail-heads slippery. I'm not going to get into an argument with ANYone who applies all this liquid junk to their rails - they seem to be happy with the results .... but I'm willing to bet NONE of them can claim all they have had to do it DUST the rails half a dozen times in the last five years. Mark.
PRR_in_AZ Yep, I'll probably go pick some up. I'll do the gleam on the helix and then add the clipper oil when I'm done. Sally's (good call) I would have never thought of that. Chris
Yep, I'll probably go pick some up. I'll do the gleam on the helix and then add the clipper oil when I'm done. Sally's (good call) I would have never thought of that.
.... And then you'll be right back to having to regularly clean your track again.
The whole concept is to get your rails smooth, clean and DRY. Think about it - sure the hair clipper oil and all those other track cleaning fluids work, but they aren't a cure. You have an oily conductive film on the rails - unless your layout is in a sterile environment, you're going to have dust settling on the rails. The wheels now continually grind this dust into the oil film until it creates a gunk on the rails AND the wheels. Now you're right back to square one regularly cleaning the track once a month.
Dust that settles on DRY rails comes right off with no residue left behind.
I've been to people's layouts that use the oil method. When-ever the engine starts to stutter, out comes the oil and a few finger swipes, away it goes like new .... I also observed as I wiped my fingers on the track, I continually picked up an oily black residue. If you guys want to keep oiling down the track to keep things rolling, knock yourself out .... you might also want to save yourself all the effort of burnishing and polishing your rails as well because you're defeating the whole purpose by ultimately just applying long term gunk to your rails and probably making those nicely burnished rail-heads slippery.
I'm not going to get into an argument with ANYone who applies all this liquid junk to their rails - they seem to be happy with the results .... but I'm willing to bet NONE of them can claim all they have had to do it DUST the rails half a dozen times in the last five years.
OK. I was just asking. I'm not arguing that the gleaming isn't effective - in fact, I want to try it. I was just asking about some type of oxidation inhibitor. Wahl clipper oil was suggested and the poster said he only uses one drop on each rail. That certainly doesn't sound like it would make a huge oily mess to me. So you're saying, use a polish after burnishing and call it done?
No-Ox is supposed to be a protective coating against oxidation. I also live in the Phoenix area and use Wahl hair clipper oil. I'd try it first. You can get a can at Sally Beauty Supply. It works like a charm on my garage layout. See my post above.
No, the masonite is actually rather "soft" on the rails - there's no abrasiveness to masonite.
The final polish is more as a protectant. As per the instructions on most metal polishes .... they "clean, polish and protect".
When this whole concept first came to light, like a lot of other folks, I was skeptical at best .... especially considering the amount of work to do my whole layout following every recommended step. But I gotta tell ya - having taken the plunge - progressively sanding / burnishing / polishing - the results in the long term (5 years +) have been nothing short of amazing. I have not had to clean my track once since completing the process. The ONLY time I use my masonite track cleaning cars is when the layout has sat for extended periods (months) without being operated. At that point, it's only required due to air-borne dust that has settled on the layout. ONE quick trip with the masonite cars and it runs as good as new.
During the winter months when the railroad is run more regularly, we just keep on running without the need to even run the masonite cars.
Roy,Why not try Wahl hair clipper oil? I've used it since the 1970's. It slows oxidation, which sounds to be your problem. It's also cheap and I've had the same can for years. All I ever need is a drop on each mainline rail every few months. Clean the track with a Bright Boy first to get off any gunk or built up oxides. I will add that I long since have converted everything to metal wheels, which helps a lot, as well.
LooseClu While browsing the MicroMark catalog I saw they carry Flitz metal polish in a tube for $12. Out in the garage I have an old 3.4 oz bottle of Flitz but it is a McDonald’s milkshake consistency liquid. Has anyone used Flitz for this purpose? Will the liquid work as well as the thicker (and more expensive) stuff in a tube? I live on an island, less than a block from the Gulf, and salt air raises havoc with my track which now requires weekly cleaning via alcohol. I'm running out of old T-shirts and somewhat desperate to find a better method for this seemingly endless track cleaning task. I'm also not somewhat cheap and don't want to spend money for the tube of Flitz if the bottle I have will do the job as well. Anyone out there used this stuff? Roy
I want to try this on my helix. I do have a couple questions. Mark, you said that after the gleam you occasionally run your masonite cars over the track to remove dust. Isn't the masonite abrasive enough to leave scratches? Also, once you sand and burnish, some people use polish and others don't. Is there really a concensus on "needing" the polish? Also, if you don't use the polish do you still need to clean with alcohol and a rag?
I have no experience with the liquid Flitz as I used the paste in a tube.
I did the Gleaming technique about three years ago on my N scale garage bound layout, but still needed occasional wipe downs with alcohol. Not a big deal until I needed to do the hidden staging where it is very difficult to reach. So a guy named Gary on another forum sent me a tea spoon of no-ox to try. So its been 7 months and my track cleaning now includes one step, vacuuming only. The no-ox actually treats the metal so if you apply or run your locos in the freshly applied no-ox they will also get the treatment. Also any plastic wheels will cause gunk issues so remove them from the layout if you can. They produce static and draw particles to them.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/171-226
http://www.sourcetelsupply.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=131&osCsid=fe14a1efd3c97e6192cbf63e9d768ab6
Both of the above will include application instructions, an explanation of how it works, and maybe a surprise as to who used it in the past.
http://electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/no-ox-id-a.html
Try it and be amazed to the fact that you will be able to walk up to the layout after months of sitting, vacuum and run trains.
Mark is probably right with his grit selections and the reasons for them.
I must not have the patience to progress through several grits! LOL When I did my layout, I used what I had on hand - 600 grit. But I used wet/dry paper, not regular sandpaper. I don't know why, but the wet/dry paper seems to have a different grit rating. The 600 worked well for me. Most of my track was not only old but had also suffered many generous applications of a brite boy eraser cleaner! Ouch!
On the rest of your layout, follow the suggestions Mark outlined, especially if the track is new or nearly new.
I take it that the Flitz worked well, then? Glad to know that. I still prefer the Mother's paste polish since I don't have to rush to buff the rails. Just a preference. Probably no difference with the final results.
Darrell, quiet...for now