While browsing the MicroMark catalog I saw they carry Flitz metal polish in a tube for $12. Out in the garage I have an old 3.4 oz bottle of Flitz but it is a McDonald’s milkshake consistency liquid. Has anyone used Flitz for this purpose? Will the liquid work as well as the thicker (and more expensive) stuff in a tube? I live on an island, less than a block from the Gulf, and salt air raises havoc with my track which now requires weekly cleaning via alcohol. I'm running out of old T-shirts and somewhat desperate to find a better method for this seemingly endless track cleaning task. I'm also not somewhat cheap and don't want to spend money for the tube of Flitz if the bottle I have will do the job as well. Anyone out there used this stuff? Roy
Roy Onward into the fog http://s1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/looseclu/
I use the liquid and it does work well, although it can be tricky to remove from the web (side) of the rail if you get too much on. A first application and removal and then a second one in a day or so works really well. Improved my DCC operation (no "lost" signal) and it leaves the rail head shiny and smooth. I have applied it once only and that was about six months ago or more. Now granted, I only run a train about once or twice a week, sometimes less due to work schedules and such, but the track has remained clean and viable so far, with only two light uses of the Bright Boy in the duration and then only to remove deposits around switch points, etc.
It is also available at ACE Hardware stores. It should be about the consistency of a thin milkshake, and it should have a slight bluish green tint to it. Unlike the tube's directions, the liquid's directions are slightly different....follow them to the letter and you will be okay.
All I have ever used to clean track is a Briteboy which Micromark sells the biggest one's I've ever seen and a home made track cleaning car. Some of the commercial track cleaning cars work very well from what I've been told but all I have is a John Allen special as I call it. A piece of Masonite mounted under a freight car with a couple of springs from a ball point pen mounted on a couple of machine screws.
Shouldn't cost you more then a few nickles to build. here are a couple of links on how to.
http://wpporter.duckburg.us/trackcleaner.htm
http://www.finescalerr.com/outdoor_railroader_articles/build-a-track-cleaning-car.htm
You may be dealing with an almost unsolvable problem in that any substance that coats the track suffient to block oxidation may well also interfere with electrical conductivity. I do not know that for certain, but it would be my principal concern if I were in your place.
That said, there is an excellent metal protectant called Renaissance Wax that is used to protect metal surfaces that are prone to oxidation. It is in used by museums and collectors in many contries to protect valuable antiques guns and swords. An internet search might turn up additional information. It's kinda pricy e.g., $10 for a 1 oz tube, but a little goes a long way and lasts. Heavy train traffic would ultimately take its toll, but if it works the reapplication would be time well spent.
Good luck.
Roy,
If you have the stuff, give it a try. If your track is brass, the oxidation problem may be a little worse than if you had nickel silver rail. The stuff works great on either, but realy shows its stuff on nickel silver rail.
What I found with the stuff is that it tends to help in regard to allowing the DCC signal and electrical current to get to the wheels, even when the track looks dirty. With so much airborne junk, you might need to polish the rails a little more than normal. Also do the pickup wheels on your locomotives, and any metal wheels on your cars.
As a good maintenance point, try to eliminate any plastic wheelsets and replace them with metal ones.
I would try polishing a 3 or 4 foot section of track and see how it stands up to the dirt, etc. If it does well, then clean the entire layout. Use a clean chamois to remove the accumulated dirt, etc.
let me know how it works under tough conditions.
Good luck!
I agree with the previous poster. Test a section using what you have. Since you have to clean your tracks often, a short test section will give you results quickly.
On another thread (maybe even on another forum...grin) there have been several discussions regarding gleaming. Those that have tried it are satisfied with the results. One modeler suggested using a product called No-Ox (available from Walthers and other places) along with the gleam process. No-Ox treats the rails chemically to inhibit corrosion. Reportedly, it does NOT inhibit electrical conductivity.
I have gleamed my whole layout and haven't cleaned the tracks in over two years. I have a jar of No-Ox but haven't used any yet. I will be appling some to a test section just to see how it works.
Gleam a test section using your Flitz polish and let us know what you learn from the experience.
Darrell, quiet...for now
The term "gleaming" seems to have gotten mis-understood. The term was originally coined for the burnishing process, not the polishing process which is done AFTER the rails have been burnished.
Do a search for "gleam" and you will get the answers you need. I burnished my track nearly five years ago and haven't needed to clean it since. Once in a while I'll run a couple masonite pad cars to clean off the dust as my layout only gets run maybe once a month.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Mark, I agree with your comment about the original definition of "gleaming". Like many other specific definitions though, I think "gleaming" has come to mean the "process of gleaming", or at least that's the way I've been thinking about it. The "process" would include all the steps involved (sanding, burnishing, polishing).
Any way you look at it, gleaming really cleans the rails. I'm into my third year after gleaming and haven't had to clean the tracks again. A little touch-up here and there from time to time. I'm a firm believer in the process!
I'm ready to begin the the test having made a run over to the mainland to obtain a suitable washer for the burnishing and a few more sheets of 600 wet/dry sandpaper. I will report back as soon as I have some results. A minor issue but I will miss the dull brown rail heads which disappears during the initial sanding. Most of what will be visible track is Micro Engineer's weathered code 83 and I had become use to the drab finish (which withstood alcohol). A small sacrifice to a good running train- Thanks again, Roy
Roy, only the tops of the railheads should be sanded, so any painting and weathering done to the sides of the rails should still be there.
Having shiny railheads is very prototypical, especially on mainline trackage.
I am not familiar with Micro Engineering's weathered rail. Is it chemically weathered? Just wondering if the weathering applied to the rail could be causing conductivity problems.
I may be too late with this recommendation, but if your track is relatively new - don't start sanding the railheads with 600 grit paper ! The idea is to progressively sand the rails to smooth out all the original nicks and scratches. If the rail is reasonably new to start with, it should be relatively smooth to start with.
What you are doing is starting with the coasest paper needed to remove the existing pits and scratch marks. Some people might need to start with 800 grit if the track is old and marked up. If the track is relatively new, start with 1200. you then need to work up through progressively finer grits - up to 1800 or 2000. you need to sand it to the point where there are no visible scratches, otherwise, you'll be burnishing your butt off and not getting the desired results as easily.
I've posted these pictures in "gleaming" threads before showing before and after the sanding and burnishing process ....
As you can see - the before rail was very rough and pitted requiring a coarser grit to start with in order to work out all the roughness. Newer track obviously wouldn't be this bad and woldn't require as coarse a grit to start with.
Also, as an aside .... when doing your final cleaning / polishing - don't forget to do the inside edge of the rail-head as well. Electrical contact also relies a great deal on the inside edge as well, not just the top !
Hi Mark,
You were just a tad late with the sanding directions but its just one short section. I do about a foot at a time and you can't afford to wonder off since the liquid Flitz must be buffed before it dries according to its instructions. After 4 1 foot long sections, I found a quick buff, with old T-shirt, followed by a final buffing, with the Dremel and fabric disk, produced a near mirror finish on the top and top inner edge. The Micro Eng. weathered track is treated with a witch’s brew of electrically friendly acids and nitrates and it had fewer dirt problems than the unstained track (a mix of M.E. & Atlas flex). None of it was able to withstand the sea air completely. Any hazy buildup will certainly be easily visible on that surface. Roy
Mark is probably right with his grit selections and the reasons for them.
I must not have the patience to progress through several grits! LOL When I did my layout, I used what I had on hand - 600 grit. But I used wet/dry paper, not regular sandpaper. I don't know why, but the wet/dry paper seems to have a different grit rating. The 600 worked well for me. Most of my track was not only old but had also suffered many generous applications of a brite boy eraser cleaner! Ouch!
On the rest of your layout, follow the suggestions Mark outlined, especially if the track is new or nearly new.
I take it that the Flitz worked well, then? Glad to know that. I still prefer the Mother's paste polish since I don't have to rush to buff the rails. Just a preference. Probably no difference with the final results.
I have no experience with the liquid Flitz as I used the paste in a tube.
I did the Gleaming technique about three years ago on my N scale garage bound layout, but still needed occasional wipe downs with alcohol. Not a big deal until I needed to do the hidden staging where it is very difficult to reach. So a guy named Gary on another forum sent me a tea spoon of no-ox to try. So its been 7 months and my track cleaning now includes one step, vacuuming only. The no-ox actually treats the metal so if you apply or run your locos in the freshly applied no-ox they will also get the treatment. Also any plastic wheels will cause gunk issues so remove them from the layout if you can. They produce static and draw particles to them.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/171-226
http://www.sourcetelsupply.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=131&osCsid=fe14a1efd3c97e6192cbf63e9d768ab6
Both of the above will include application instructions, an explanation of how it works, and maybe a surprise as to who used it in the past.
http://electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/no-ox-id-a.html
Try it and be amazed to the fact that you will be able to walk up to the layout after months of sitting, vacuum and run trains.
John
I want to try this on my helix. I do have a couple questions. Mark, you said that after the gleam you occasionally run your masonite cars over the track to remove dust. Isn't the masonite abrasive enough to leave scratches? Also, once you sand and burnish, some people use polish and others don't. Is there really a concensus on "needing" the polish? Also, if you don't use the polish do you still need to clean with alcohol and a rag?
Thanks,
Chris
Roy,Why not try Wahl hair clipper oil? I've used it since the 1970's. It slows oxidation, which sounds to be your problem. It's also cheap and I've had the same can for years. All I ever need is a drop on each mainline rail every few months. Clean the track with a Bright Boy first to get off any gunk or built up oxides. I will add that I long since have converted everything to metal wheels, which helps a lot, as well.
John Timm
LooseClu While browsing the MicroMark catalog I saw they carry Flitz metal polish in a tube for $12. Out in the garage I have an old 3.4 oz bottle of Flitz but it is a McDonald’s milkshake consistency liquid. Has anyone used Flitz for this purpose? Will the liquid work as well as the thicker (and more expensive) stuff in a tube? I live on an island, less than a block from the Gulf, and salt air raises havoc with my track which now requires weekly cleaning via alcohol. I'm running out of old T-shirts and somewhat desperate to find a better method for this seemingly endless track cleaning task. I'm also not somewhat cheap and don't want to spend money for the tube of Flitz if the bottle I have will do the job as well. Anyone out there used this stuff? Roy
No, the masonite is actually rather "soft" on the rails - there's no abrasiveness to masonite.
The final polish is more as a protectant. As per the instructions on most metal polishes .... they "clean, polish and protect".
When this whole concept first came to light, like a lot of other folks, I was skeptical at best .... especially considering the amount of work to do my whole layout following every recommended step. But I gotta tell ya - having taken the plunge - progressively sanding / burnishing / polishing - the results in the long term (5 years +) have been nothing short of amazing. I have not had to clean my track once since completing the process. The ONLY time I use my masonite track cleaning cars is when the layout has sat for extended periods (months) without being operated. At that point, it's only required due to air-borne dust that has settled on the layout. ONE quick trip with the masonite cars and it runs as good as new.
During the winter months when the railroad is run more regularly, we just keep on running without the need to even run the masonite cars.
Winter is the nice time of year here in the Phoenix, AZ area. I was wondering also about the no-OX product to protect your hard work. Everything oxidizes (metal) over time but our relative humidity is low here most of the year but we do have a lot of dust (more like powder fine dirt). Does anyone know if the No-Ox is a polisher and protector - or just a protective coating? I guess I could just do a search and find out - Duh.
Chris,
No-Ox is supposed to be a protective coating against oxidation. I also live in the Phoenix area and use Wahl hair clipper oil. I'd try it first. You can get a can at Sally Beauty Supply. It works like a charm on my garage layout. See my post above.
PRR_in_AZ Winter is the nice time of year here in the Phoenix, AZ area. I was wondering also about the no-OX product to protect your hard work. Everything oxidizes (metal) over time but our relative humidity is low here most of the year but we do have a lot of dust (more like powder fine dirt). Does anyone know if the No-Ox is a polisher and protector - or just a protective coating? I guess I could just do a search and find out - Duh. Chris
Yep, I'll probably go pick some up. I'll do the gleam on the helix and then add the clipper oil when I'm done. Sally's (good call) I would have never thought of that.
PRR_in_AZ Yep, I'll probably go pick some up. I'll do the gleam on the helix and then add the clipper oil when I'm done. Sally's (good call) I would have never thought of that. Chris
.... And then you'll be right back to having to regularly clean your track again.
The whole concept is to get your rails smooth, clean and DRY. Think about it - sure the hair clipper oil and all those other track cleaning fluids work, but they aren't a cure. You have an oily conductive film on the rails - unless your layout is in a sterile environment, you're going to have dust settling on the rails. The wheels now continually grind this dust into the oil film until it creates a gunk on the rails AND the wheels. Now you're right back to square one regularly cleaning the track once a month.
Dust that settles on DRY rails comes right off with no residue left behind.
I've been to people's layouts that use the oil method. When-ever the engine starts to stutter, out comes the oil and a few finger swipes, away it goes like new .... I also observed as I wiped my fingers on the track, I continually picked up an oily black residue. If you guys want to keep oiling down the track to keep things rolling, knock yourself out .... you might also want to save yourself all the effort of burnishing and polishing your rails as well because you're defeating the whole purpose by ultimately just applying long term gunk to your rails and probably making those nicely burnished rail-heads slippery.
I'm not going to get into an argument with ANYone who applies all this liquid junk to their rails - they seem to be happy with the results .... but I'm willing to bet NONE of them can claim all they have had to do it DUST the rails half a dozen times in the last five years.
OK. I was just asking. I'm not arguing that the gleaming isn't effective - in fact, I want to try it. I was just asking about some type of oxidation inhibitor. Wahl clipper oil was suggested and the poster said he only uses one drop on each rail. That certainly doesn't sound like it would make a huge oily mess to me. So you're saying, use a polish after burnishing and call it done?
Mark R.PRR_in_AZ Yep, I'll probably go pick some up. I'll do the gleam on the helix and then add the clipper oil when I'm done. Sally's (good call) I would have never thought of that. Chris .... And then you'll be right back to having to regularly clean your track again. The whole concept is to get your rails smooth, clean and DRY. Think about it - sure the hair clipper oil and all those other track cleaning fluids work, but they aren't a cure. You have an oily conductive film on the rails - unless your layout is in a sterile environment, you're going to have dust settling on the rails. The wheels now continually grind this dust into the oil film until it creates a gunk on the rails AND the wheels. Now you're right back to square one regularly cleaning the track once a month. Dust that settles on DRY rails comes right off with no residue left behind. I've been to people's layouts that use the oil method. When-ever the engine starts to stutter, out comes the oil and a few finger swipes, away it goes like new .... I also observed as I wiped my fingers on the track, I continually picked up an oily black residue. If you guys want to keep oiling down the track to keep things rolling, knock yourself out .... you might also want to save yourself all the effort of burnishing and polishing your rails as well because you're defeating the whole purpose by ultimately just applying long term gunk to your rails and probably making those nicely burnished rail-heads slippery. I'm not going to get into an argument with ANYone who applies all this liquid junk to their rails - they seem to be happy with the results .... but I'm willing to bet NONE of them can claim all they have had to do it DUST the rails half a dozen times in the last five years. Mark.
Sorry guys - I didn't mean the off-handed comment about starting an argument - it was more of a throw back from all the arguments this topic created in the early years of this technique and I didn't want to start it all back up again.
John - How often do you have to apply the oil to keep things running smoothly ? Also, do you ever have to actually clean your track (alcohol / thinners) by hand ? Before I went through the process on my layout, I tried most every process known. I have a lot of grades on my layout (2.2% max) and I found even the slightest application of oil severely hampered tractive effort. Trains that normally used two engines were now requiring three. Cleaning and drying the rails brought things back to where they were.
I have over 1200 feet of track and I hate having to clean it all just to run some trains. I desperately wanted something that would make it virtually maintenance free. My layout sits idle usually from April to November. Come time to run trains again, all it takes is a couple laps with the masonite cars and we're in business - even the engines pulling the masonite cars around for the first time aren't stuttering.
Just as a comparison of this process for visitors, I left one parallel track in my yard un-burnished. It's more than obvious which one it is. Even after all these years, the burnished track still looks like chrome where-as the single length of unburnished track appears to be a dull silver and always requires an alcohol wipe most every time we run trains. There is a real difference in how the engines run on that unburnished length of track.
As I said before, there ARE a lot of people using the oil on their track and really liking it. Personally I see it as a band-aid, not a cure.
Chris, no-ox is not a polish rather it treats the rail. It actually chemically penetrates the rail to protect it. I plan to order some and if you still have doubts do the "gleam" method to prepare the rails and I will send you enough no-ox for your layout. It does not take much. So little in fact you will wonder if you are adding anything to the rails. A teaspoon full will be almost a lifetime supply for 500' of track.
Mark,
No worries. Like I said, I'm more curious than anything. I would have no reason to doubt your success with this method. Hell, never having to actually clean track - that's for me! One more question if you don't mind answering (someone else can chime in here as well). Did/Do you paint and weather your rails/track before or after gleaming?
Spidge,
I just might take you up on that! Thanks for the offer. Let us know how you do. I did a quick search on the stuff and found out that it is actually some type of wax? It says it never really dries so that got me a little concerned. Maybe I was looking at the wrong stuff. The site I went to says they use it to preserve machinery, etc., that is exposed to high humidity and salt. Moth-balling navy equipment, etc. Is this the stuff you're referring to?
Chris - My track was painted and weathered years prior to actually discovering the process.
You could burnish your rails either before or after. If you do it before you paint your rails, you'll probably have to do another final polish after you weather your rail as the thinners you use to remove the excess paint from the railhead (don't forget the inside edge of the railhead as well) will also remove the protective coating of the polish.
I just checked out that No-Ox ....
http://www.sanchem.com/ox.html
Based on what I'm reading, it doesn't sound as though the stuff is electrically conductive. If you are going to give it a try, only do a short section, and don't allow your train to spread it around the whole layout until you are certain of it's performance. It doesn't really sound like the kind of product we are looking for here.