Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

ideas for curved bridges and trestles

14049 views
17 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • 59 posts
ideas for curved bridges and trestles
Posted by eds-trains on Monday, April 27, 2009 12:20 PM

I am looking for some ideas and suggestions for building curved trestles and/or bridges. The radius is 24” with a length of approximately 30”. I am using code 83 track. I am considering the JV Models curved wood trestle or the Micro Engineering Tall Viaduct and bents.

 

Ed
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Germany
  • 1,951 posts
Posted by wedudler on Monday, April 27, 2009 2:26 PM

 I've build my curved trestles from a pile of wood.

Wolfgang

Pueblo & Salt Lake RR

Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de          my videos        my blog

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Monday, April 27, 2009 3:28 PM

Prior to the very recent developments in curved-beam construction, there was no such thing as a curved bridge.  Bridges are built under curved track by connecting short tangent bridges at angles appropriate to the curvature.

A timber trestle on a curve will have each bent on a radius line of that curve.  The center of each floor beam between bents will be perpendicular to the curve radius half way between bents, and floor beams will meet at an angle equal to the angle between adjacent bents.  Extra floor beams may be added to assure that the rails will always be over a floor beam.

The same rules apply to steel viaducts with single-panel bents.  If the viaduct has box bents, the entire box will be perpendicular to the curve radius passing through its center, floor beams within the box will be of the same length and the differential length between inner and outer floor beams will be absorbed by the spans between box bents.

One of my favorite prototype bridges has deck girder spans supported by masonry piers.  Since the piers are circular in cross-section it isn't obvious that the girders of each span are of unequal length.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with lots of bridges on curves)

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Monday, April 27, 2009 7:18 PM

The instructions in the ME tall viaduct kits have a section on how to construct the girders to achieve almost any radius you want.  It's a matter of using a template and clipping the inside girders.  I've got a fairly long ME viaduct on a 36" curve built from two of the kits.  Follow the directions in their very detailed construction manual, and it works like a charm. 

Tom Smile

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Finger Lakes
  • 561 posts
Posted by TBat55 on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:49 AM

My 2 cents, things to remember (from "bridge engineering" in an old MRR).

1. Most railroads preferred to fill cuts with dirt and culverts to avoid bridges (cost). Exception was mountains - too far to bring dirt in, or tall spans (over 30'H), or traffic.

2. 80% of trestles were "pile", only 20% were  "framed timber".  It's easier to drive trees, if available and if the ground allows it.

3. Framed bents should rest on a foundation.  Don't forget the girt or horizontal bracing thru the bents near the track centerline.  Make bents with the sway braces, then connect bents together with girt beams, and then add the side braces (and not every bent needs them).  Last add fire barrels and upper walk deck.

4. If you have a curved wood trestle connected to a steel bridge (a common approach), don't forget to have double bents at the steel, or better put a pier between them. If there's a fire the steel part won't collapse.

 

Terry

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: THE FAR, FAR REACHES OF THE WILD, WILD WEST!
  • 3,672 posts
Posted by R. T. POTEET on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:33 AM

"Curved" bridges are only possible utilizing masonry--stone or concrete--arches. Track can curve atop a bridge but, as has been pointed out, the bridge structure itself, except in the case cited above, consists of short spans of straight sections joined together atop some sort of tower. There are examples of these towers being masonry but the track-carrying sections themselves will always be straight.

Masonry bridgework--stone (Starrucca) or concrete (Tunkhannock)--are imposing works-of-art but 21st Century labor expenses would prohibit their construction today--unless, of course, they were being payed for using your tax dollars. (Several astronauts, by the way, have attested to the fact that the mass of both Starrucca and Tunkhannock, as also the Great Wall of China, makes them observable from outer space.)

 

From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: US
  • 40 posts
Posted by bobwhitten on Saturday, May 30, 2009 1:49 AM
You can't go wrong on the JV Models trestle. I built the JV Models trestle. Bob Whitten
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:34 AM

tomikawaTT
Prior to the very recent developments in curved-beam construction, there was no such thing as a curved bridge.  Bridges are built under curved track by connecting short tangent bridges at angles appropriate to the curvature...

Lika so....

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:25 AM

eds-trains

I am looking for some ideas and suggestions for building curved trestles and/or bridges. The radius is 24” with a length of approximately 30”. I am using code 83 track. I am considering the JV Models curved wood trestle or the Micro Engineering Tall Viaduct and bents.

The choice of bridge has a lot to say on the style and time period of your railroad.  In most eras and situations, I wouldn't model a wooden trestle more than one or two stories tall.  Steel was the norm.

Mark

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Saturday, May 30, 2009 12:48 PM

Well, it kinda depends on the terrain, budget, materials, capabilities of the engineering department, commitments for deliverables....so for example. the line of the E&N Ry running between Parksville and Port Alberni on Vancouver Island runs on the north shore of Cameron Lake.  Four summers ago I walked the five miles along the north side of the lake on the now abandoned right of way.  That right of way was used last in the late 80's (I seem to recall...I could check) and it includes three substantial timber frame bent trestles, none of which is less than 40' high or 60 yards long.

Here is a shot taken of the largest from the south side of the Lake.  It was about 90 m long and about 35 m high at the deepest point.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Saturday, May 30, 2009 2:02 PM

Crandell, that bridge is on a backwoodsy shortline.  Typical of girder bridges carrying more traffic were like this:

 

Mark

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:05 PM

markpierce

Crandell, that bridge is on a backwoodsy shortline.  Typical of girder bridges carrying more traffic were like this:

  

Mark

Mark: 

Ooh, we've been up on the High Line lately, haven't we? Tongue

Tom Big Smile

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:21 PM

twhite

Mark: 

Ooh, we've been up on the High Line lately, haven't we? Tongue

Tom Big Smile

 

Tom, this is near the west end of the Feather River Canyon (some tens of miles west of the Keddie Wye) on the former WP, now UP, line.  The BNSF has trackage rights here for its trains coming from Oregon on this portion of the UP.  In fact, the only trains I saw on this line during the drive were BNSF's.

Mark

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:27 PM

Photos like the above keep reminding me about what has always bothered me about Micro Enginering's viaduct model.  Most such prototype bridges have the vertical thickness of the bridge girders the same, while ME has thinner 30'-girder-bridge sections than its 50'-girder-bridge sections.

Mark

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:10 PM

Mark: 

Okay, I think I know where it is, now.   I'm just not used to seeing it photographed from that angle.  You must have driven up the side-canyon road access from the highway behind it to get that shot, right?  Really nice. 

You're right about the ME girders--I was going to mix and match when I built mine, but decided to stick with the 30-footers.  But it DOES give that viaduct a really 'spidery' effect.   I think you remarked when you saw my photo that it looked 'scary', LOL! 

Tom

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:19 AM

twhite
 

Okay, I think I know where it is, now.   I'm just not used to seeing it photographed from that angle.  You must have driven up the side-canyon road access from the highway behind it to get that shot, right? 

Tom, my Sweetie took this picture while I was driving west on the main road avoiding a fall into the Feather River.

Mark

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:36 AM

And then again, there are combination wood/steel bridges, although this is a contemporary narrow-gauge example.

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:55 PM

markpierce

Photos like the above keep reminding me about what has always bothered me about Micro Enginering's viaduct model.  Most such prototype bridges have the vertical thickness of the bridge girders the same, while ME has thinner 30'-girder-bridge sections than its 50'-girder-bridge sections.

Mark



You're right, Mark, but the depth of a girder is the main determinant of its allowable span - if the connecting span requires a girder 6' high, the girders atop the towers could be of a lesser depth, as their span is shorter.  However, this would require a stepped support at each end of the tower - I'm guessing that the prototype finds it cheaper to use a heavier-than-necessary girder atop the tower than it is to construct stepped supports.

I'm not sure, but the M.E. 30' and 50' girder bridges may have been developed before the tall viaduct, and using the disparate heights was merely a matter of expediency when used with the viaduct.

Wayne

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!