Beginner looking for advice

[Anonymous]

My bench work is nearing completion and I am about to begin the layout stage.  I have a general idea of how I want the track layed out.  I have a u-shaped layout in a 12X12 room.  I was interested in DCC.  I am planning on using Atlas code 83 track.  The layout will (hopefully) have between two and four trains running with several switches.  I also plan on using cork as the track bed. 

My questions:

Is there a specific Atlas track(and switches) I should be buying to be compatible with DCC?  Is the wiring easier with some other brand?  I am assuming the easy tracks (ex Bachmans E-Z Track) aren't too compatible with DCC.

Any ideas which DCC system I should be looking at?

Any thoughts on cork vs foam.  I have heard/read arguments for both.

Thanks in advance for the input and info.

 

[Anonymous]

This is just opinion mick.  You have asked some loaded questions but your layout sounds similar to mine. In six months these are the decisions I made to answer your questions:

1. For DCC, it's not so much the track BUT rather the turnouts (switches) that you must consider for easy wiring to DCC.
2. All easy tracks (snap track) are not equal.  In fact, I, like you, was going to use Atlas or Peco code 83 with cork roadbed.  After checking out the track in person and much soul searching, I settled on Kato Unitrack for a number of reasons.  First, the roadbed looks realistic and tha rail is code 83 - while unitrack is more expensive than flextrack, my calculations concluded that after buying cork and the time to install it, the Kato track is actually a deal.  Secondly, the switch motors for Kato turnouts are all well concealed inside the switch itself.  Kato #6 switches can be chnaged from "power routing" to "non-power routing" with just 2 jumper switches.  I will still ballast and weather my track and I'll bet most would be hard pressed to tell it is "easy track" as you put it.
3. All DCC systems are supposed to be compatible by NMRA standards.  That said, I decided on the Digitrax Zephyr system which comes self contained as booster, throttle, and power supply and is readily expandable with all Digitrax products.
4. Again, this is just one person's opinion, but I hate cork.  I worked extensively with it on my first layout 15 years ago and hated it. This time I am using foam and I LOVE it.  You can pile up the foam and carve your landscape right out of it with a steak knife.  If you use a 2" foambed, you can carve roads right under your rails.

Here are a couple of pics of my layout under construction. This will give you an idea of the mthods I chose:

You will get alot of advice here and it will all be good.  In the end, you will have to decide for yourself and go with it.  The important thing to remember is to have fun!

 

[MisterBeasley]

First, Back to the Drawing Board!  Download one of the free track planning software packages.  I used RTS from www.atlasrr.com, and there's also Xtrakcad from www.sillub.com.  RTS is the simpler program, but Xtrakcad has more features.  Since you've already got your layout's size and shape defined, you can enter it into the program and start laying virtual track.

Take time with this.  Planning is very important when building a layout.  It will force you to think before you buy, a common problem for those of us who go to shows or find bargains on the Internet - "What was I thinking?  Why did I buy this?"  Instead, layout software lets you see the trackwork and the open spaces where you'll want scenery.  (Don't forget to plan roads.  If you don't, you'll find that your roads all cross the tracks at weird angles, or a turnouts, or on curves.)

Next, figure out how to post your design here, and ask for suggestions on your problem areas.  We've all been through this, and people here have come up with some pretty creative solutions.

[ARTHILL]

Welcome to the forum. You have a nice room. You have already got some good advice. I will add a few opinions,

Put Atlas flex track on top of WS foam with cheap latex clear caulk. It just is easier.

Go with a DCC with radio.   I use Digitrax but some others also work. Being able to walk around the layout with your train, untethered is more fun than you can imagine. You give each engineer their own thottle and watch them all walk around and keep the trains apart is more fun than ever. This costs a little more, but saving until you get what you wany costs less than getting something cheaper that you decide later than you don't really want.

I have both power routed switchs and dead frog. They both work when wired properly. The advantage of power routed is that the old engines with less pickups run a little better and interior lights flicker less.

[tstage]

Mick,

On the topic of DCC.  In my book, any DCC is preferable to running trains than DC - to me.  (That includes the very basic Bachmann E-Z Command all the way up to the Zimo.)  I enjoy the independent control over each locomotive because that's how it is on the prototype.  I have no qualms about going with DCC.

With that said, all DCC system have there pros and cons, their pluses and minuses.  You'll get a variety of "preferences" and experiences from folks here on the forum about which DCC system is "best".  Mick, what you need to do is to read up on (or, even better - actually try) as many DCC systems as possible and determine which one will be the best fit for YOUR needs.  It's best to figure out what "pros" (features) of a DCC system are essential to you and what "cons" (if any) you can "live with".

Joe Fugate has a very good primer on choosing a DCC system that's here on the forum.  It was a real aid in helping me pick out my NCE Power Cab.  I'll see if I can't find the link for you.  Here you go:

FORUM CLINIC: Picking the best DCC system

Tom

[jim22]

Hi,
  I'm pretty new at this stuff myself, but I have opinions too :-)

  I am in the process of laying Atlas code 83 turnouts and flextrack.  I happen to be laying it directly on Homosote rather than on raised cork or foam roadbed.  The Atlas code 83 turnouts have insulated frogs and are non-power routing, so it is not necessary to provide insulated rail joiners or gaps as with live frogs.  If necessary, it is possible to power the frogs on the Atlas customline turnouts.  Part of the decision hinges on what you intend to use for locomotives.  Modern 4-axel diesels do well on insulated frogs.  Older or small two-axel engines can stall on insulated frogs.  Some folks swear by Peco track, which comes in insulated and live frog versions.

  I took one look at the number of DC blocks (sections of track which can be independantly turned on and off to control trains individually) and ran to the LHS to buy a DCC system.  I chose the NCE PowerCab.  It is reasonably portable, being tethered.  It supports full programming access to the decoder parameters.  It will NOT run DC engines.  Mixing DC and DCC is not recommended, and running engines with decoders on a DC system doesn't result in very good speed control.  The most serious limitation I see to the PowerCab is that you can add only one additional throttle.  If you outgrow it, you should be able to purchase a booster and use the PowerCab as a throttle on the new booster.

  I use xtrkcad to plan my layout.  It has a steep learning curve - spend considerable time viewing the tutorial and practice the techniques it gives.  I also had to create my own parts for the #4 customline turonouts.  I almost recommend you plan a simple layout and lay track, fully intending to rip it out and redo it when you've learned what works and what doesn't.  I have an un-scenicked "try it out" layout where I've tested the turnouts and the caboose industry ground throws I'm using.

  Good luck!  Probably the most important thing to do is have fun.  The next most important thing to do is get xtrkcad or the Atlas right-track software and lay some track on paper.

Jim

[cccpro]

Some thoughts.  If like me designing layouts by computer isn't going to happen.  I wish I could use them but I am a touch & feel guy.  Below are a few ideas I used which helped greatly.

• Rough out a layout on graph paper, make as detailed as you feel you need
• Using an old wooden yard stick, I drilled a hole at every 1.5"(I model N-Scale and that was my track center spacing for curves).  On poster board I traced half circles, every 1.5".  I cut them out and had a bunch of life size radii to help determine if my concept would fit.
• Get some big sheets of cardboard, from refridgerator boxes.  Sign shops may also have big 8'x4' sheets.  Sketch your layout on the cardboard.  Get a couple of the turnouts your going to use for tracing purposes. 
• Once your layout is finallized on the card board use it as a template to cut your subroadbed.

It really helped me get from layout design to layout building to have actual size templates to visualize not only if the layout would fit but if it "worked".

Oh ya.  I got a Digitrax Zephyr - couldn't be easier, couldn't be happier.  I added a hand held for my 7 year old.

Have fun!

[Anonymous]

Go slow, go easy.

Take breaks now and again, especially when you have a stumper.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the info and advice.  Now I am overwhelmed AND intimidated.  I am not much of a handy guy so the wiring part of the layout worries me the most.  Again thanks for the input, it has been VERY helpful.  Time to make some decisions and fun.

[MisterBeasley]

DCC will greatly simplify the wiring.  You're certainly on the right track with that decision.  It's also a whole lot more fun, in my opinion.  Pretty much everyone is happy with their DCC system, by the way, regardless of which one they ended up buying.

[jim22]

micsport,
  You still havn't told us what sort of trains you are hoping to run (new modern deisel vs old small steamers).  That would help us advise you on the types of turnouts to use, which in turn dictates how complex the wiring needs to be.

  Lets assume modern models with plenty of axels picking up power.  If thats the case, simplify your life by choosing DCC and insulated frog turnouts, like Atlas or Peco insulfrog.

  I almost suggested this in my last post, but then deleted the sentence.  Seing you're now suitably intimidated (I agree!), I recommend you sketch out a SIMPLE track plan - even start with just a single loop of track, and BUILD IT.  You don't have to make it real permanent.  You don't have to put complex scenery arround it.  Just build it, wire it, and try it.  You can do that, right?  Within a couple hours, you will be much more experienced, and you'll be ready to add a turnout and a siding, or maybe two turnouts for a passing siding.  Then buy a couple turnouts, Atlas customline are fine for a learning experience, and modify your simple loop.  Then maybe you want two engines, which is EASY in DCC - no wiring change at all.  Run that for a while, and you'll understand if your engines work well with those turnouts, and maybe you want something better looking or operating.

  The point here is start tiny and work your way up.  That's what I'm doing.

Enjoy!
Jim

[Anonymous]

I am planning on using newer modern trains on my layout.  I think from what I have read and researched I am leaning towards Atlas track code 83, corkbed, and NCE PowerCab for the DCC system.  I also think I will take Jim up on his suggestion and just start with an oval and a loco and start to add things from there.  Sounds like a great idea for a newbie like me, thanks! 

Also, I am going to a train show this weekend.  I tell my wife I have to go for our 5 yr old son but I am going just as much for myself as well.  One of these years I think she may catch on.  My question regarding the show is are there any deals I should look for?  Tony's Train Exchange prices seemed to be the cheapest I have seen.

Again all the input has been appreciated!

 

[ft-fan]

I think Loy's Toys is a good place to look, too. Their prices are good, they have lots of great info on their website. I bought some stuff there before and thought they took good care of me.

FT

[wjstix]

I've tried out the Bachmann E-Z Track and Kato Unitrack, both are very good. The Bachmann track can be converted to a power frog, there is a wire under the turnout that has basically a track connector attached to it's end. There is a metal tab under the turnout that you slide the connector onto and that's it. I tested a Bachmann no.5 under DC and DCC and it worked great, even my smallest engine (Thomas) worked fine.

I have to agree with Surfstud about hating cork !! I used it on one layout in 1972 and never again. I've used "Ribbonrail" upsom board roadbed on my last few layouts, but the next one will be E-Z track. Why?? Two reasons, one is I like to build in stages and test things out. As someone mentioned above,  you don't have to lay out all your track at once !! I plan on using flattop benchwork and putting track in in stages, starting with a fairly simple dogbone and once that is working, adding sidings and seeing what will fit where. I have a pretty good idea of my track plan, but no matter what, once you get track in place I guarantee new ideas will come up. With E-Z track those changes will be simple. Once the track is all in place and I'm sure it's working, I will add WS subroadbed risers, ballast and scenery.

Second reason is range of products available. Atlas and Kato code 83 track-with-roadbed looks great - but is very limited compared to the range of turnouts, crossings, curves etc. that Bachmann makes. Plus, I understand they are coming out with DCC equipped turnouts soon.

(BTW my layout will be largely a shelf layout, roughly a 25' x 37' "L" shape...and those Bachmann 3' long sections are nice to eat up the yardage!!)

[whywaites]

Some of the best advice I was given was use a published track plan, that's what I am doing on my new build. As for DCC another piece of advice I was given try various systems ans ask users not manufacturers. I was introduced to DCC back in 1995 and I bought a Digitrax Big Boy I have used other systems but when I come to purchase my next system it will be Digitrax again (my only niggle was the battery in the throttle) I was looking at the CVP but as nobody sells them here in the UK it's hard to try before you buy.

Shaun

[Anonymous]

Just an update, I purchased the NCE PowerCab starter set and layed out track in an oval.  I hooked up the DCC and in five minutes my train was running.  I was very suprised.  Now on to more complicated matters like trying to wire the switches.  Always something to worry about, but so far I'm enjoying the journey.

Again thanks for all the advice!

 

[jim22]

micksport,
  Sounds awesome!  I bought a PowerCab a couple weeks ago.  I had two trains running on my startup layout just a few hours ago.  It consists of a loop on a 4x8 sheet of OSB attached to a 2x4 box frame.  I nailed together the track board about 25 years ago.  Once I get my new layout to a point where it can run, I guess I'll have to disassemble the old one.  It's got a lot of miles on it.  
  My old track is a loop, with a pair of switches which makes a passing siding, and two more switches which provide two trailing point spurs.  The first pair of switches are Atlas Code 100 snap-track remote switches with the dual-solenoid controls.  The two spurs are Atlas Code 83 Customline #4's with Caboose Industry ground throws.  I have the layout wired for 5 DC blocks.  When I wired the DCC to it, I simply turn on all the blocks at once.  I installed decoders into two of my engines, and I'm now planning to install them in another 3.
  My new layout will be built in modules.  The first 2x8 foot module is a yard with a turntable, two sorting tracks, a couple tracks for engine servicing, a main line which passes through end to end, and a double-ended siding with a passenger station.  I'm going to model an excursion steam train operation similar to Valley Railroad in Essex CT.  I'll also have freight train service.  Eventually there will be another 4 or 5 modules, but I haven't really planned them yet, just the general shape and grades involved.
Jim

[selector]

... The Bachmann track can be converted to a power frog, there is a wire under the turnout that has basically a track connector attached to it's end. There is a metal tab under the turnout that you slide the connector onto and that's it...

I have not used EZ-Track for a few months, but my turnouts, the #6 style, had solenoid actuators under them that moved the points with a click.  The electrical contacts you talk about, would they not be for hooking up to the switch?   There should be a black box with either a push-botton or a slide button with a red or green wire attached and a socket to slide onto the three tabs at the side of the turnout.  Or has Bachmann offered a turnout that has a powered frog, as you say?